Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

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:confused: Here I found redshift spectra that INCREASE between spectral lines:
From: http://astrostatistics.psu.edu/datasets/galspec.html
As those images show , you can clearly see the actual redshift
The first figure shows three spectra from Seyfert 2 galaxies. The progressive shift of the spectra to the red can be seen (the fractional shift is the redshift z). The principal emission lines are the [OIII] doublet from doubly-ionized oxygen atoms (towards the right, always with a 1:3 intensity ratio), and the H-beta line with rest wavelength 4861 Angstroms.

I do not know the cause of the progressive increase in the distance between the [OIII] doublet and the H-beta line.
 
Take the light from a light bulb for example. If that light is redshifted a lot the light bulb will appear to shine more reddish in color (given that the original light didn't contain much ultraviolet and other higher frequency light).
Well duh :D!
That is what redshift means.

It is not that someone painted the light bulb red.
The light bulb is still emitting light as usual, e.g. white light.
But due to the Doppler effect or an expanding universe, we measure that light as shifted toward the red end of the spectrum.
 
No, you have misunderstood that. An acceleration would not make the red shift non-linear. What we observe, as we become able to measure the distance to distant objects in other ways than by red shift is that the red shift is not quite linear with distance, and this indicates that expansion is accelerating.

What you according to the omniscient orthodox intolerant holy brainwashed BigBang thesis observes by difference distance estimations techniques must off course 100% refelct the same distance as per redshift interpretation.
So the accelerating of (so called) dark energy must be the same result everywhere regarding less which technique that is used.

According to the new theory; (the one I and mother cow represent) imaging the Sun would explode, - we know it would take 8 minutes before the orbit of the Earth would be affected. - And before any gravity change would happen here.

Now imaging all stars of all galaxies would explode, - take a look at the image below to understand the point.

AccExpand.jpg


Imaging we live in the centre.

You can see that after (let's say 2 million year) the gravity “waves” from 4 galaxies would reach us , - and after passing us , that gravity would be lost, seen from our point of perception.

But after only double so much time gravity waves (not from only 4 galaxies) but now from 12 galaxies would reach us.

So because the periphery of the “bobble” of reachable distance of the Universe “gets larger” propotional with time since all stars of a previous Universe exploded, -- the amount of gravity waves (w/speed of light) that possible can reach us per/ certain time also get larger.

As you can understand we are today hit by a lot more gravity waves (from a previous Universe of exploding stars) as in the past (for example; more now as for few billion years ago). .

THIS explains that we are losing gravity faster now as before, and this is exactly what we can observe in several different ways, - especially in the redshift EM spectra.

Notice the so called "cosmological redshift" is fantasy , - it must be understood as gravitational redshift .

The whole BigBang idea was derailed already from the beginning; - to be exact exactly the day "cosmological redshift" was invented (even though it was not necessary)
I believe that many was afraid to suggest that gravity could be extreme in a Big Crunch, since a such would be; "too far from home".
But the alternative 100% pure fantasy invention; "cosmological redshift" have no basic in science at all.
Furthermore a model where god could push the red button would certainly also be supported by several religions. .

In fact the whole load have never ever when been on any real rail at all, - except in fantasy land .
 

The light from those galaxies was measured on Earth at the Kitt Peak National Observatory. I checked if the increased distance between spectral lines could be a result of Earth's atmosphere. Here is the absorption spectrum for light through the atmosphere: http://ber.parawag.net/images/Atmospheric_Absorption_Bands.jpg

From: http://www.skepticalscience.com/does-greenhouse-effect-exist.htm

The absorption in the band 4500 to 7000 Ångström is continously falling so it seems that the increase between the spectral lines is a result of something other than the atmosphere.
 
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I don't see how atmospheric absorption could shift sprectral lines, wouldn't it just change light intensities?
 
I don't see how atmospheric absorption could shift sprectral lines, wouldn't it just change light intensities?

Maybe, but I was thinking that absorption could make photons lose energy which is the same as the photons' frequency becoming lower which in turn means an increase of their wavelength.
 
Hmm... Ok, that's a good point. Yes, spectral lines would move closer if my idea is correct. For example the blue line for hydrogen would move more than the red line: http://mail.colonial.net/~hkaiter/astronomyimages1011/Hydrogen-helium-lithium-oxygen.jpg

Darn. :mad: That disproves my hypothesis about photons losing energy due to vacuum energy friction. Unless I can find some evidence to support it, such as observations showing that the lines move closer together.

Congratulations! You moved a step closer to wisdom: Recognize the truth when it bites your nose.

Continue from there.

Hans
 
Congratulations! You moved a step closer to wisdom: Recognize the truth when it bites your nose.

Continue from there.

Hans

Well, I don't know about that since I discovered something that could support my initial claim, but in reverse so to speak: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7827253&postcount=4954

The momentum of a photon is proportional to its energy, and the energy of a photon determines its frequency. The higher energy a photon has, the higher the frequency and consequently the higher the momentum. Photons with higher momentum perhaps don't lose energy as fast as photons with lower momentum when traveling through the vacuum energy of empty space. That would explain the increase between spectral lines with increased redshift.
 
What you according to the omniscient orthodox intolerant holy brainwashed BigBang thesis observes by difference distance estimations techniques must off course 100% refelct the same distance as per redshift interpretation.
So the accelerating of (so called) dark energy must be the same result everywhere regarding less which technique that is used.

It is, but the light reaching us from distant objects is older, so at the time they emitted the light we see now, they were moving slower. The light from not so distant objects was emitted later, when they moved faster.

According to the new theory; (the one I and mother cow represent) imaging the Sun would explode, - we know it would take 8 minutes before the orbit of the Earth would be affected. - And before any gravity change would happen here.

The mass of the sun would not disappear even if it exploded, it would just start to spread over a larger area.

Now imaging all stars of all galaxies would explode, - take a look at the image below to understand the point.

http://www.science27.com/images/AccExpand.jpg

Imaging we live in the centre.

You can see that after (let's say 2 million year) the gravity “waves” from 4 galaxies would reach us , - and after passing us , that gravity would be lost, seen from our point of perception.

But after only double so much time gravity waves (not from only 4 galaxies) but now from 12 galaxies would reach us.

So because the periphery of the “bobble” of reachable distance of the Universe “gets larger” propotional with time since all stars of a previous Universe exploded, -- the amount of gravity waves (w/speed of light) that possible can reach us per/ certain time also get larger.

As you can understand we are today hit by a lot more gravity waves (from a previous Universe of exploding stars) as in the past (for example; more now as for few billion years ago). .

THIS explains that we are losing gravity faster now as before, and this is exactly what we can observe in several different ways, - especially in the redshift EM spectra.

No. Gravity does not change because stars explode. The mass is still there, it is just distributed differently. We don't get gravity waves from exploding stars.

Hans
 
Maybe, but I was thinking that absorption could make photons lose energy which is the same as the photons' frequency becoming lower which in turn means an increase of their wavelength.

I believe it is either or when photons are absorbed by atmosphere.
 
Well, I don't know about that since I discovered something that could support my initial claim, but in reverse so to speak: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7827253&postcount=4954

The momentum of a photon is proportional to its energy, and the energy of a photon determines its frequency. The higher energy a photon has, the higher the frequency and consequently the higher the momentum. Photons with higher momentum perhaps don't lose energy as fast as photons with lower momentum when traveling through the vacuum energy of empty space. That would explain the increase between spectral lines with increased redshift.
:dio:

OK, I take it back then: You are not any closer to wisdom.

... Your loss, not mine. :nope:

Hans
 
I believe it is either or when photons are absorbed by atmosphere.

Yeah, that is sort of the whole idea about quantum mechanics: A photon either is or isn't. Either it is absorbed, or it is not. It is not half absorbed, slowed down, or looses some energy.

But try to explain that to Anders. :rolleyes:

Hans
 
The mass of the sun would not disappear even if it exploded, it would just start to spread over a larger area.

No. Gravity does not change because stars explode. The mass is still there, it is just distributed differently. We don't get gravity waves from exploding stars.

Hans

Try to Google; supernova gravitional waves etc.
Notice I am speaking about when explosion takes place there is also lose of absolute speed and also of these reason lose of gravity
 
I believe it is either or when photons are absorbed by atmosphere.

"There are a few other ways that a photon can lose energy during its trip to us from a distant star. If the photon encounters an atom along its path, that atom could absorb it and then re-emit the photon at a lower energy. A photon could also encounter a particle and be scattered and in the process lose some of its energy to the particle. However, since the universe is mostly vast, open space, these events usually don't stop a star's light from reaching us." -- http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=680
 
"Changing the Color of Single Photons Emitted by Quantum Dots

Researchers at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) have demonstrated for the first time the conversion of near-infrared 1,300 nm wavelength single photons emitted from a true quantum source, a semiconductor quantum dot, to a near-visible wavelength of 710 nm." -- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101014131917.htm

Does this mean that a single photon can change frequency through natural quantum interactions?

ETA: It seems that several photons are needed to generate the change of one photon: http://www.rp-photonics.com/upconversion.html So it's not really a change of a single photon.
 
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re-emit the photon at a lower energy
That is not the same photon at a lower energy level.

I have here in my hand a 150mW 532nm laser.
The light start from the laser diode at 808nm, hits a crystal and is shifted to 1064nm, hits another crystal and frequency doubles to 532nm.

Light hitting something, getting absorbed and causing light emission at another wave length is quite well understood by some people.
 
That is not the same photon at a lower energy level.

I have here in my hand a 150mW 532nm laser.
The light start from the laser diode at 808nm, hits a crystal and is shifted to 1064nm, hits another crystal and frequency doubles to 532nm.

Light hitting something, getting absorbed and causing light emission at another wave length is quite well understood by some people.

In any case, the atmosphere cannot explain the expanding distance between the spectral lines in the diagram. So it's either a mistake/manipulation in producing the data or a real astronomical phenomenon.

I have done web searches for if photons can lose energy through other means such as via quantum effects or gravity etc. It's still not entirely clear to me. The topic looks more complicated than I first thought.
 
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Try to Google; supernova gravitional waves etc.

Not that kind of gravitational waves. You are imagining that the gravity from the star ceases.

Notice I am speaking about when explosion takes place there is also lose of absolute speed and also of these reason lose of gravity

It doesn't loose speed. I don't know what you mean by absolute speed, but when a star explodes, the average speed and direction of all its parts remains the same. Of course individual bits and pieces will change their speed and direction.

Hans
 
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