Don't be so sure. I've been long gold and silver for a long time. It's completely rigged, thanks to ETFs, futures, naked short selling, and unlimited manipulation by central banks. Any gains that it's seen in recent history are managed. However, there is one thing you can be very sure of with gold and silver, if you are buying it now, you are buying it at a *huge* discount. The only question is, will it ever come off clearance in our lifetimes? I am betting that it will, but I am beginning to recognize that it will take a paradigm shift and change in the balance of global power.
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Don't be so sure. I've been long gold and silver for a long time. It's completely rigged, thanks to ETFs, futures, naked short selling, and unlimited manipulation by central banks. Any gains that it's seen in recent history are managed. However, there is one thing you can be very sure of with gold and silver, if you are buying it now, you are buying it at a *huge* discount. The only question is, will it ever come off clearance in our lifetimes? I am betting that it will, but I am beginning to recognize that it will take a paradigm shift and change in the balance of global power.
This thread is really tedious now, mostly because of your inane, repetitive, and mostly content-free posts. It's almost as bad as the Gaetan "money" thread. Almost.
If you've read any Karl Popper, in order for claims to be scientific, they have to be falsifiable. This is not to say that unfalsifiable claims aren't meaningful, they certainly can be (I am a conspiracy theorist, who by nature deals in some hefty and practically (but not absolutely) unfalsifiable claims myself). But clearly unfalsifiable claims cannot be scientific by definition.
At what point do you concede that bitcoin was never really a bubble, but instead a profound paradigm shift in terms of the way that we view money, and wealth? Is there some price that you would concede this, or some level of acceptance? Perhaps $100,000, or maybe the idea that Amazon would accept bitcoin? Can you make a falsifiable claim about bitcoin being in a bubble, or not?
Oh. Now you're calling me a liar. I suppose you expect me to tell you his name, so you can google him, and then dox myself. Is that it? Sorry, I'm not going to do that for some clown on the internet. It's funny to me that people are incredulous when I tell this story, as if bitcoin multi-millionaires don't exist, and that there aren't some people on a computer forum that don't actually know one.
In fact, I know two, another gentleman on an IRC chat room that I've been frequenting for years, who has around 2000 bitcoin, and other various cryptos including ETH.
I think the big difference between my friend and people like you (and, sadly me, who only owns 0.09 bitcoin that he sent me) is that he is a visionary and a true believer. He sees a paradigm shift, and at this point, I think he might be right. He still hasn't convinced me to buy a single one, especially not at $17,000 when he suggested it. I'm a true believer in precious metals, but I wish I hadn't been so dogmatic.
Psion, are you ever going to address the fallacy that bitcoin isn't viable as a currency now not because it is deflationary, but because of the transaction times and costs? If not, you are really no better than these other bitcoin "skeptics".
Perhaps the subject of why we don't need and shouldn't want inflationary currencies should be it's own thread.
Perhaps the subject of why we don't need and shouldn't want inflationary currencies should be it's own thread.
Do you understand the meaning of the expression falsifiable? I have stated that Psion's notion that the price of Bitcoin will go up for years to come, and totally dwarf the recent peak of $20k, if wrong will be evidently mistaken. It will therefore be falsified. Is the recent peak the last before the collapse? Very possibly, but I don't know. Let me say, however, that if it goes up all the way to €100,000, I will admit I was wrong about its prospects. Today it has fluctuated in the range $13,825 to $15,131.
I have already in this thread mentioned what you call paradigm shifts. Bubbles often take place in response to real paradigm shifts. Railways were a transport paradigm shift in 1845, joint stock companies engaged in intercontinental trade were one in 1720, and the internet in 1999. So that has nothing to do with the issue. This is a bubble, paradigm shift or not.
I'm glad to hear that your friend with the $180m Bitcoin profit is not imaginary, but you still haven't told me if he has converted his winnings into cash. I hope he has, or that he will do so in time.
That sounds like an interesting idea for a thread. If you have an OP in mind, I think you should indeed go ahead and start it.
I make forecasts based on a technical algorithm as a business sideline. There are two big threads where I proved beyond doubt that direction can be forecast from price history alone, psion2 is one of a bevy of naysayers who completely ignored the specific forecasts and results to revel in a preconceived nonsense.
Bitcoin trades at all time parameters like all other freely traded markets.
Gold is a buy on a very rare monthly iteration of the algorithm. This is your year if you are a long time holder.
So any fraction of a bitcoin can be freely traded?
p0lka
Illuminator
Yup, I concur.
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
I examined the issue of transaction costs in post #1200 (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12123249&postcount=1200). I found that at current prices, each transaction costs around $50.
Transaction times has been dealt with many times.
That subject too has been dealt with many times (not necessarily in this thread). I would only add that a shortage of currency is no better than a shortage of food, or a shortage of petrol, or a shortage of labour, or a ...........
PartSkeptic
Illuminator
Governments have cause for concern. If one is not into crime then why the need to be anonymous?
And if a person is not a criminal why break the law and risk prosecution?
And if a person is not a criminal why break the law and risk prosecution?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Any fraction down to 0.00000001 btc - also known as a "satoshi".
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
And if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't mind the government having all your banking passwords or having the government install surveillance cameras and microphones in your house.
Yes... the smallest unit of a bitcoin is called a satoshi, which represents one hundred millionth of a bitcoin. Does anyone actually read this thread?
It's now at 13,300, back up in the last few minutes from 13,140. But still not quite in "free fall".
I'm glad for Tippit that he didn't buy at $17,000 as suggested by his friend. That might have been risky.
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No one likes a clever dick but I notice it declined 10% within 2 hours of that call.
I have a friend who is the general manager of a Hooters restaurant. Not only was bitcoin featured virtually all day long on CNBC when the futures trading began and it was around $17,000, my GM friend called me up and told me that his Hooter's girls were sharing tips about bitcoin. I don't know what the long term prospects are, but it seems to me that when waitresses are talking about it, it's a clear sell. If you see it on the cover of TIME magazine, look out below. $17,000 is chump change to my bitcoin whale friend, but it isn't to me, and I'm not buying. I will note that he bought and recommended that I buy bitcoin at prices of $10-11 (i contemplated investing only $10,000 at this point, and decided not to, sadly), ~$900, and at ~$17,000. The whole thing has made me sick. I'm the one who told him about the Federal Reserve scam, and how fiat money works, yet he is the one who got the big payoff. He sent me 5 bitcoin as a token just to get me interested back in 2011ish, and I literally deleted the email. That email would have been worth about $70,000 today. This also makes me sick, but a part of me thinks I deserve it for being so ungrateful.
The lesson I've learned is that if you have a feeling that something could end up being a paradigm shifting investment, just throw anything at it, whatever you can afford to lose, and then sit back and wait. Sure wish I had been wise enough to do this, I could afford the Bugatti Veyron I've always wanted.
what does the hilited expression mean? What "paradigm"?
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Not exactly a ftfy but that is the argument ever since these threads began.Craig B;12129006 in 2011 said:
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