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Merged bin Laden's death / bin Laden not really dead CTs

2) To me, this is an extraordinary claim. We looked for him for a decade and weren't able to find him. There was talk that he wasn't even alive anymore. The expected thing (to my mind anyway) was that we wouldn't ever find him (dead or otherwise).

An extraordinary claim is one that conflicts with a great mass of existing evidence. For example, a claim that would require a major overhaul of a branch of science--say physics or anthropology, for a couple of examples. Nothing about Bin Laden's being tracked down, located and killed is like that.

The talk that he might be dead was just that. But meanwhile, the search went on, and for a couple of years grew warmer and warmer. I think your expectation that he would never be found wasn't shared by many people, including those who devoted a lot of time and effort in finding him.

A skeptic examines all the available evidence, then provisionally accepts or rejects a proposition. (I never like to call it a "conclusion" because that sounds antithetical to the idea that it's provisionally held.) Right now, I see a lot of credible evidence that Bin Laden was killed and absolutely no evidence to the contrary. The balance is all on one side.

But again, if new and sufficient evidence comes to light that he wasn't killed, I can change my position based on that evidence. But unless and until that evidence exists, I accept that he was killed.
 
I think that would make my entire life if he floated ashore somewhere

The wrappings or body bags that the navy uses for burial at sea are weighted to prevent this. Bin Laden is likely smooching silt on the bottom and ain't coming up until until the bag decays and bin ladens body loses all its connective tissue.
 
If it turned out that Bin Laden was still alive then we were abused and manipulated and our hopes were put on something that they knew was false.
Nobody could support obama with a straight face anymore. Our credibility in the world would be completely demolished
"Good morning Mr. Phelps,

The first subject in your file is a Leftist dictator who calls himself Barack Hussein Obama. Though Kenyan by birth, he recently conned his way into becoming President of a large banana republic situated between the North Atlantic and Pacific oceans. For reasons that we cannot divulge at this time, it is vitally important that he does not win in that country's upcoming elections.

Second is our key man in the Middle-East, 'X', who is pretending to be an arch-terrorist by the name of Osama Bin Laden (head of the so-called 'El Qaeda' group, a list which we created). His job is to divert attention away from our other agents and their operations around the Globe. We believe that his life is in danger, as Obama's thugs have recently discovered his whereabouts.

Your mission Jim - should you decide to accept it - is to extract our man alive without blowing his cover, and to completely demolish Obama's credibility so that nobody with a straight face will support him.

To help you carry out the mission I have assigned Dr. Gene Hacker, an expert in DNA manipulation and faking forensic evidence.

As always, should you or any of your I M Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape will self-destruct in 5 seconds. Good Luck, Jim."
 
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It appears that the helicopter may have, in fact, been a stealth design.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/05/aviation-geeks-scramble-to-i-d-osama-raids-mystery-copter/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-compound#/?picture=374256190&index=3

[qimg]http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2011/05/mh-x3-660x410.jpg[/qimg]



Thoughts in the webosphere appear to lean toward the "sneaking past the Pakistani anti-aircraft missiles" as motivation for using it.

Having it fail and then be destroyed on the ground is less than favorable, especially since they didn't destroy the tail section that shows stealth features. I guess at some point you have to show your cards.

[qimg]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/4/1304535575187/U.S.-special-forces-assau-002.jpg[/qimg]

I guess no-one, or no one outside the military, would know how many people they can carry?
 
I believe Bin Laden is dead because I like President Obama. But can someone give me the scientific explanation of how the DNA evidence that his team say they have works?

What do they match it with? His own DNA that they collected before he became America's enemy? Or do they match it to his parents' or siblings' DNA? Thanks in advance for the explanation.
Reuters says it was matched against his sister who died of brain cancer. Look up "Death of Osama Bin Laden" on Wikipedia.
 
I guess no-one, or no one outside the military, would know how many people they can carry?


I see where this might be going.....

You would have to, of course, firstly establish which type of helicopter it was. Any CT musings without that information would simply be premature speculation*

Right?


Compus

*Fumbling about, getting over-excited and coming to a conclusion a little early.
 
I see where this might be going.....

You would have to, of course, firstly establish which type of helicopter it was. Any CT musings without that information would simply be premature speculation*

Right?


Compus

*Fumbling about, getting over-excited and coming to a conclusion a little early.

Me?
I am just interested in helicopters.
 
mh-x3-660x410.jpg

Dude... I want one! :D

Me too!! I would definitely get that annoying dog down the road to quit barking 24/7
 
Since this is not a Conspiracy Theories thread, we can actually learn something from this question...

The way to approach it is as follows: Hypothesis Testing. So in this case we have two basic hypotheses -- one, bin Laden is dead. The other, bin Laden is still alive.

Let's flesh these out a little. In the first hypothesis, we are actually claiming that bin Laden is dead as a result of a military special operation launched by the United States, which infiltrated the compound he was staying at in Pakistan and shot him to death in the ensuing melee.

This hypothesis has a great deal of circumstantial evidence. For starters, the result and the mechanism proposed are plausible -- bin Laden is or was not bulletproof, and the USA has capable special forces with the ability to carry out this sort of thing. Second-hand reporting indicates that an operation took place at that location and at that date (tweets, news video, etc.).

So the counter-hypotheses must address the points at which the above hypothesis is at its weakest. Let us accept, therefore, that the op happened and that someone was killed. The alternative, therefore, is that either (a) bin Laden was captured, (b) bin Laden escaped, or (c) bin Laden was never there in the first place and some other poor sod got whacked.

Is there any evidence for the three above? Not really. All I've seen from any quarter is "doubt." Whether this doubt is reasonable or unreasonable misses the point. The simple fact is, the alternative has no evidence in support. It therefore cannot be a stronger hypothesis. At best, it is still plausible and thus still competitive, but under no circumstances is it the leading hypothesis.

The initial hypothesis also provides circumstantial evidence for bin Laden's positive identification. Mentioned in the press are some plausible, definitive test results, including DNA. Now, admittedly, these results are not independently verifiable, because they cannot be replicated without access to the same samples, or without verifying the chain of custody. But that doesn't mean these tests can be simply ignored.

What about the alternatives? Is there any reason to believe this test must be wrong? That there's a possible alternate explanation? That would be no.

Other folks have pointed out that the absence of negative evidence is itself evidence against the alternatives -- if bin Laden is still alive, why is no one claiming he is? Why doesn't he issue another stupid tape with another bogus fatwa thumbing his nose at the USA? Well, these arguments also fall into the category of "circumstantial," indeed are little more than an Appeal to Silence.

But it does suggest one way in which the alternative could be proven.

So... what evidence would you like to see? And how much more "proven" would this make it, in your mind?

As you think about that question, riddle me this: Is there evidence that non-avian dinosaurs are actually extinct? It's the same kind of thing.

Bottom line is, it is possible that bin Laden is still alive, but there is no compelling reason to believe this is so. The rational conclusion is that he is dead.

Oh good grief. There is a third possibility. He's been dead long before this supposed operation. Is there more evidence that he's been dead than being killed this past week?

It's Obama's word against a whole slew of sources who have believed OBL to be dead as early as Oct 2001.

There won't be photo and video, so you'll have to take Obama on faith.
 
True enough, but the only evidence we have is from POTUS (etc.). Years ago, we were presented with "evidence" that Iraq had WMD's. Is it really that crazy to wonder if we are being lied to again?
Rational people, even those inclined to mistrust, realize that some lies are just too big to hide, and carry so much potential repercussion to the liar, that they are not worth attempting. My co-worker (call him Larry) is a perfect example. He does not in fact believe that Bin Laden is dead. He thinks he was captured alive, and the story of "burial at sea" was made up in order to prevent trial, public appearances, attempts (however futile) to spring him out, etc. OTOH, Larry recognizes that completely faking the story (i.e. announcing Bin Laden was killed, when he is alie elsewhere -- or already died of renal failure elsewhere) is not plausible. Chances of the lie coming out and political damage if it does, are so great that no US Administration would dare to do it.

Anyone not capable of Larry's reasoning is beyond psychiatric help. Don't waste time on them.
 
It's Obama's word against a whole slew of sources who have believed OBL to be dead as early as Oct 2001.
Of course these sources have to explain how all video and audio addresses he released for years afterward came to be.
 
Oh good grief. There is a third possibility. He's been dead long before this supposed operation. Is there more evidence that he's been dead than being killed this past week?

It's Obama's word against a whole slew of sources who have believed OBL to be dead as early as Oct 2001.

There won't be photo and video, so you'll have to take Obama on faith.

Then why do all the major players in Sunday's raid, including Pakistan and Al Qaeda, behave as though the official story is true? Are they in on it? Are they all playing on the same team? Are they all branches of the NWO?

What about the many, many people in the White House and US military involved? Have they all sworn fealty to the president, to follow him in any lie he crafts? And for what? Bin Laden's death doesn't further any of Obama's political goals. If anything, it's going to increase pressure to get out of the Middle East. Sure it raises the chance that Obama gets re-elected, but the chances of him getting caught in such a lie are extremely high, and the repercussions far too great. Nixon couldn't even break into a hotel without getting caught, and that was just a few guys.

Oh, but that's right. A few people in the past have believed that Bin Laden was already dead. Nevermind, then. It must be true.
 
To me it would make more sense to salvage it. Bit of a waste of money.
First, it's a special operations helicopter. Pretty much everything about it is classified. Never mind "falling into enemy hands" -- Pentagon would have kittens if it fell into British hands, let alone Pakistani.

Second, US government wasting money? Film at eleven! :)
 

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