Bin Laden Dead Truthers Mourn

[Clayton Moore]

If they faked it all as a distraction, they wasted a golden opportunity. It would have been much better to save a faked bin Laden take-down for early November next year, just before the presidential elections. Obama would be a shoe-in.

Oh, I know. They're simultaneously evil geniuses and too stupid to take the obvious path.

Maybe the freezer fritzed up without anybody noticing.

 

[SatansMaleVoiceChoir]

Revisionism is when you replace the real story with one that you want people to believe.

This is a case of releasing the story you want people to believe first, then making a correction after things die down, knowing that most people won't remember the corrections.

Yes, indeed. Poor choice of words on my part - same thing meant; wrong word used!

 

[Clayton Moore]

What are you implying?

Nothing. Finish your happy meal.

 

[SatansMaleVoiceChoir]

No, there was never any evidence that Bin Laden was suicidal, or would blow up his nearby wife and kids with such a vest. None was reported, and would have been by now. He had been at the "mansion" for years, with no reason to think he would be attacked that night.

I have read much to suggest than OBL would rather die a martyr than be captured, but I generally agree.

Apparently some authority in Pakistan was secretly harboring him, probably someone who believed he was a patsy for 9/11 and was not temped by the $25 million reward. Only under such protection could Bin Laden let his guard down somewhat.

Seems reasonable.

Bin Laden was in his sleeping garment, and such a vest would have been visible. A trained Navy SEAL, with fast reflexes, and backed up by his team, had no reason to fear an unarmed man, much less an unarmed woman, his wife, who was shot in the leg.

Generally agree.

Bin Laden was evidently "silenced" for some reason, as Lee Harvey Oswald was, before he could testify. He would want to live and plead innocent to planning 9/11, as all verified (not manufactured) announcements have. I do agree that he was a strong suspect for other crimes, and should have gone to jail for life, just for organizing such a terrorist group.

An honest assessment of his records, without manipulation, would prove that Bin Laden did not plan 9/11. Unfortunately an obviously Obama-serving report "proves" he was "in the planning stages" to derail trains on 9/11/2011 and we "caught him in the nick of time" Call me a skeptic.

Do not agree at all. Bin Laden did not plan 9/11 because he simply approved the operation and secured/provided the funding; the planning an execution was KSM and crew.

 

[Sabretooth]

Maybe the freezer fritzed up without anybody noticing.

You do realize that even a frozen body shows obvious signs of decomposition?

 

[SatansMaleVoiceChoir]

Never heard of 'double-tap.' So I googled it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-the-double-tap/2011/05/03/AFQeJxhF_blog.html

Navy SEALs Team 6: Super-secret, drinkers of snake venom, known for the ‘double tap’
By Elizabeth Flock



Lizzy Flocked up cause she didn't understand what she was writing about.

This woman has obviously fallen for some sort of gung-ho, romanticised Hollywood ideal of what constitutes Special Forces. Saying "Known for the 'double tap'" is as redundant as saying 'Known for being in the Special Forces'. "Known" by who for the 'double tap'? Is she suggesting that Team 6 leave scores of dead bodies in their wake to be found by lesser troops who exclaim "Look, 'double tap' - this can only be the work of Navy SEAL Team 6!"

That paragraph reads like she was drunk while she wrote it.

 

[Myriad]

Nothing. Finish your happy meal.

He's too modest. What he was implying was:

- That Bin Laden's death was either scheduled or outright faked (or both) for the specific purpose of distracting Americans from rising gas prices.

- That the effectiveness of this ploy relies on Americans not noticing rising gas prices unless news stories about them are the lead story on the first page (because those big signs at every gas station telling them what the current price is apparently go unnoticed).

- That Americans noticing rising gas prices during this particular week was a special and urgent threat to the powers that be, since otherwise they could have just waited a week as recent commodities market movements make it extremely likely that gas prices will fall during the coming week.

- That Clayton Moore was not willing to explicitly state what he was clearly attempting to imply, because explicitly stated it sounds really stupid.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Do not agree at all. Bin Laden did not plan 9/11 because he simply approved the operation and secured/provided the funding; the planning an execution was KSM and crew.

Well, actually, he was a bit more involved than just that. As one example of him getting involved, Mohamed Atta was personally chosen by OBL for the 9/11 missions. You are correct, however, that KSM was the hands-on details planning guy.

 

[000063]

Nothing. Finish your happy meal.

I love how you can't even answer a direct question without being passive-aggressive.

 

[Clayton Moore]

He's too modest. What he was implying was:

- That Bin Laden's death was either scheduled or outright faked (or both) for the specific purpose of distracting Americans from rising gas prices.

- That the effectiveness of this ploy relies on Americans not noticing rising gas prices unless news stories about them are the lead story on the first page (because those big signs at every gas station telling them what the current price is apparently go unnoticed).

- That Americans noticing rising gas prices during this particular week was a special and urgent threat to the powers that be, since otherwise they could have just waited a week as recent commodities market movements make it extremely likely that gas prices will fall during the coming week.

- That Clayton Moore was not willing to explicitly state what he was clearly attempting to imply, because explicitly stated it sounds really stupid.

Respectfully,
Myriad

You forgot the 3 grandchildren who were bombed to death.

 

[alexi_drago]

Some of my thoughts on this and what's been said in this thread, I don't have any doubt that this was a mission taking out Osama, anything else would involve the Pakistani Government/military/intelligence being compliant in making themselves look bad in some way or another. But...

I find the changing story and 'fog of war' a bit odd, did the camera lenses on the helmets fog up or something?

I don't care whether Osama was armed or not but I also find it odd that he would only reach to pick up a nearby gun in the room he was in only after the seals entered when he'd already have heard the helicopters and gunfire.

If Osama had been taken alive what action or how far would his followers go to try to get him released?

I read somewhere in this thread someone asking where they found a lab capable of the DNA analysis open at that time of night or something, does anyone really think they'd wait until they got a sample and then worry about that or as part of the mission they'd already have that in place to test as quickly as possible and that they'd have samples from siblings to compare with on site?

Bombing the compound instead? How could they be sure they got him?

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[Clayton Moore]

You do realize that even a frozen body shows obvious signs of decomposition?

SCIFI or Discovery channel?

 

[Sabretooth]

SCIFI or Discovery channel?

Wow. Just...wow.

Welcome to ignore, troll.

 

[000063]

No, there was never any evidence that Bin Laden was suicidal, or would blow up his nearby wife and kids with such a vest. None was reported, and would have been by now. He had been at the "mansion" for years, with no reason to think he would be attacked that night.

No, there was no evidence that the vest was there, post facto. There was evidence before the operation that he might have so, and the SEALs went in with that in mind.

Apparently some authority in Pakistan was secretly harboring him, probably someone who believed he was a patsy for 9/11 and was not temped by the $25 million reward. Only under such protection could Bin Laden let his guard down somewhat.

Because people never refrain from turning someone in out of ideology, right?

Bin Laden was in his sleeping garment, and such a vest would have been visible.

Again, you can hide a lot of weapons on a human body.

A trained Navy SEAL, with fast reflexes,

Guns aren't as accurate as you seem to think, especially with a moving target.

with body armor,

Which is not invincible.

and backed up by his team, had no reason to fear an unarmed man, much less an unarmed woman, his wife, who was shot in the leg.

They couldn't know he or said wife were unarmed until they had been neutralized and searched. Why do you keep ignoring that? (000063 asked rhetorically.)

Bin Laden was evidently "silenced" for some reason, as Lee Harvey Oswald was, before he could testify.

Yeah, it's not like he had nine years to protest his innocence in more than a token fashion.

[/sarcasm]

He would want to live and plead innocent to planning 9/11, as all verified (not manufactured) announcements have.

Source please.

Cheney looks pretty relieved in a recent interview, and distorts the word "justice".

Just as you distort all the possible reasons for his belief, such as a dangerous terrorist being dead.

It was a lynching - being killed by a group without a trial.[/quote]It was war, not law-enforcement. Stop ignoring that.

An honest assessment of his records, without manipulation, would prove that Bin Laden did not plan 9/11. Nothing reported so far proves he did.

Poisoning the well.

Predictably, an obviously Obama-serving report claims he was "in the planning stages" or had vague "aspirations" to derail trains on 9/11/2011 and we "caught him in the nick of time" I'd like to see that in his own hand writing.

Unlikely, since the info seems to have been recovered from his computer, and the details are understandably still classified.

He was reported as not wanting to use computers or the internet.

No, not wanting to use phones or the Internet. Hence all the portable media they needed to sneakernet stuff around, which is a lot harder to pin down than telecommunications.

 

[000063]

Some of my thoughts on this and what's been said in this thread, I don't have any doubt that this was a mission taking out Osama, anything else would involve the Pakistani Government/military/intelligence being compliant in making themselves look bad in some way or another. But...

Some people suspect Pakistan officials were complicit in hiding him, so they couldn't let them know about the op.

I find the changing story and 'fog of war' a bit odd, did the camera lenses on the helmets fog up or something?

It refers to the standard confusion about what's going on found in any military operation in history more complicated than two guys with rocks.

I don't care whether Osama was armed or not but I also find it odd that he would only reach to pick up a nearby gun in the room he was in only after the seals entered when he'd already have heard the helicopters and gunfire.

What gun?

If Osama had been taken alive what action or how far would his followers go to try to get him released?

Terrorism, same as usual.

I read somewhere in this thread someone asking where they found a lab capable of the DNA analysis open at that time of night or something, does anyone really think they'd wait until they got a sample and then worry about that or as part of the mission they'd already have that in place to test as quickly as possible and that they'd have samples from siblings to compare with on site?

Considering they have dedicated labs for purposes just such as this...

Bombing the compound instead? How could they be sure they got him?

The Pakistanis might confirm it, and/or Al Qaeda, but it might not be credible. All the more reason for a ground op.

 

[000063]

You forgot the 3 grandchildren who were bombed to death.

Innocents getting hurt as collateral damage in a conflict isn't exactly a political knockdown.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, there was no evidence that the vest was there, post facto. There was evidence before the operation that he might have so, and the SEALs went in with that in mind.

Because people never refrain from turning someone in out of ideology, right?

Again, you can hide a lot of weapons on a human body.

Guns aren't as accurate as you seem to think, especially with a moving target.

Which is not invincible.

They couldn't know he or said wife were unarmed until they had been neutralized and searched. Why do you keep ignoring that? (000063 asked rhetorically.)

Yeah, it's not like he had nine years to protest his innocence in more than a token fashion.

[/sarcasm]
Source please.

Just as you distort all the possible reasons for his belief, such as a dangerous terrorist being dead.

It was a lynching - being killed by a group without a trial.[/quote]It was war, not law-enforcement. Stop ignoring that.

Poisoning the well.

Unlikely, since the info seems to have been recovered from his computer, and the details are understandably still classified.

No, not wanting to use phones or the Internet. Hence all the portable media they needed to sneakernet stuff around, which is a lot harder to pin down than telecommunications.

And the point of using a computer without the internet?
Pong? Scrabble? CAD/CAM? Burglar alarm?

 

[000063]

And the point of using a computer without the internet?
Pong? Scrabble? CAD/CAM? Burglar alarm?

1. You're ignoring the entire rest of my post, and focusing on what might be the strongest one of my arguments.
2. Planning terrorist attacks. It is quite possible to simply copy a pirated program onto a CD or flash drive, or to open up Wordpad and start outlining a plan.

 

[Clayton Moore]

1. You're ignoring the entire rest of my post, and focusing on what might be the strongest one of my arguments.
2. Planning terrorist attacks. It is quite possible to simply copy a pirated program onto a CD or flash drive, or to open up Wordpad and start outlining a plan.

A pirated program? What does that even mean? Stealing another terrorist's software?

 

[alexi_drago]

Some people suspect Pakistan officials were complicit in hiding him, so they couldn't let them know about the op.

Not what I was referring to, Pakistan officials may have been hiding him or they may have just been completely inept.
What I was referring to was the idea of his nine year frozen body being used or other such nonsense, the Pakistani government would have had to be 'in on it' with the US even though it would make Pakistan look very bad.

It refers to the standard confusion about what's going on found in any military operation in history more complicated than two guys with rocks.

With cameras on their heads, the guy making the press release and has seen the videos says 'the other guy was hiding behind his wife and throwing rocks, well actually he wasn't hiding behind his wife, and, well he wasn't throwing rocks either.'

What gun?

The AK47 and the handgun that supposedly he may have been reaching for, unless the story has changed yet again.

Terrorism, same as usual.

So, one reason it may have been more dangerous to take him alive.

Considering they have dedicated labs for purposes just such as this...

So I don't see why the speed at which the DNA comparisons were done is really much of an issue.

The Pakistanis might confirm it, and/or Al Qaeda, but it might not be credible. All the more reason for a ground op.

Exactly, so I don't see the reason for suggesting they should've just bombed the compound.

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