Bill O'Reilly

[Upchurch]

Fire away, I don't care, except that if there is a legitimate bias in the news reporting on Fox News, I would want to be aware of it.

Well, if we can reasonably agree that bias in reporting leads to a misinformed citizenry, this is a fairly well known study that looked for precisely that. It is mentioned in this article that talks about other studies and sort of meta-journalism theories.

I can't find the actual study that came out a while back, but here is an article about it. It pretty much reinforces what you said about people not seeing their own biases in media.

 

[Lurker]

I will admit that the news reporting on Foxnews is far less conservatively slanted than the rest of its programming. I think we liberals sometimes get caught up in lumping it all together but you have to remember that there is very little news in the FoxNews lineup. Let's take a look at their weekly schedule:

5AM-7 Fox & Friends First <-lighthearted news/opinion show with definite conservative bias
7-9 Fox & Friends <-lighthearted news/opinion show with definite conservative bias
9-11 America's Newsroom <-I don't watch it so don't know
11-1PM Happening Now<-I don't watch it so don't know
1PM-2 Live Desk w/ Martha<-I don't watch it so don't know
2-3 America's Pulse w/ ED Hill <-I don't watch but ED is a conservative but that does not mean the show is conservative
3-4 Studio B w/Shepard Smith <-News program, little bias IMO
4-5 Your World w/ Neil Cavuto <-Ostensibly a business program but a definite conservative bias.
5-6 The Big Story w/ Gibson <-News/opinion show with definite conservative bias
6-7 Special Report w/ Brit Hume <- News/opinion show with definite conservative bias as evidenced by his daily Grapevine Segment which attacks liberals daily
7-8 Fox Report w/ Shepard Smith <-News program, little bias IMO
8-9 O'Reilly Factor <-News/Opinion show with strong conservative bias
9-10 Hannity & Colmes <-News/Opinion show, appearance of balance but Hannity regularly gets more time to speak, stories seem to be chosen to promote conservatives or attack liberals. I'll call this a toss-up even though I think it is weighted towards conservatives
10-11 On the Record w/ Greta <-I've been told this is liberal biased but I don't watch it so don't knwo for sure. Can anyone help me out here?

So, it appears most of the shows on a daily basis are conservative in nature. Hmmm.

 

[Mister Agenda]

My personal anecdote, with the caveat that I have never voted for any Bush (or Clinton for that matter):

When Bush Sr. ran against Bill "It's the economy, stupid!" Clinton, Bush was claiming since July the leading economic indicators showed the recession was over and the economy was growing. This was little reported and seemed to be regarded as untrustworthy 'administration' figures. The WEEK after Clinton was elected...not took office, ELECTED, the big news was that the economy had turned around and I was hearing man on the street interviews crediting Clinton-generated optimism for the new prosperity.

I think this was, at best, bias that may have thrown an election. At worst, some journalists may have consciously tried to make things easier for 'their guy Bill'. I've seen 'tout the economy when Dems are in charge, run it down when Repubs are in charge' as a general bias, although FOX certainly also does the reverse.

OTH, the bias may be more a matter of pessimism: journalists who can't resist putting a cloud on economic silver linings. You know, items like "Employment is up in the 3rd Quarter but could slow down in the 4th Quarter"

 

[Lurker]

Skepticybe:

Of the shows I listed above on Fox, which do you consider actual news programs? I have trouble seperating them.

 

[SezMe]

It has been my experience that when emotion enters the mind, logic exits. So it should come as no surprise that fervent liberals conservatives would be unable to see a liberal conservative bias in the media, no matter how blatant. But it is there nonetheless. I'm not talking about nit-picking mistakes, I'm talking about crafting the reporting and stories to lead the viewer to a desired conclusion, even if the crafting is merely the result of unprofessionalism or sloppiness. But someone who doesn't want to see it never will, no matter how many references anybody cites.

My edits do not alter one whit the veracity of this paragraph.

 

[DavidJames]

Arguing with a liberal about whether there is a liberal bias in mainstream news reporting is like to trying to convince a creationist that virtually everything in the world around us demonstrates an old earth formed through natural processes. Creationists are so blinded by their dogma that they even perceive evidence such as rock layers, fossils, and fuel deposits as supporting their position.

It has been my experience that when emotion enters the mind, logic exits. So it should come as no surprise that fervent liberals would be unable to see a liberal bias in the media, no matter how blatant. But it is there nonetheless. I'm not talking about nit-picking mistakes, I'm talking about crafting the reporting and stories to lead the viewer to a desired conclusion, even if the crafting is merely the result of unprofessionalism or sloppiness. But someone who doesn't want to see it never will, no matter how many references anybody cites.


I would never expect someone who would actually post this to be capable of discerning a liberal bias.

I'll admit that it's entirely possible that Fox News has a conservative bias that I've been blind to. In fact, that's why I posted in this thread. But whether there's a conservative bias at Fox News is irrelevant to whether there is a liberal bias in other mainstream media news reporting, except that a great deal of Fox's success can be attributed to the widespread perception that the other networks do carry a liberal bias.

I don't defend Fox News. Fire away, I don't care, except that if there is a legitimate bias in the news reporting on Fox News, I would want to be aware of it.

Got a mirror handy? You spend the first part of your post describing the person writing the second part.

 

[Skepticybe]

You, me, China, North Korea, and Russia are in agreement then

Thanks for those links! After reading through them, I have to wonder how much of the perceived bias on Fox is due to viewers not distinguishing between which programs are news and which are opinion-based talk shows. I find the news to be straightforward (with the inane exception of using the phrase "homicide bomber"), but the talk shows mostly intolerable and full of spin.

So far it appears that the "Faux News" crowd is the result of O'Reilly's distasteful nature.

 

[Upchurch]

After reading through them, I have to wonder how much of the perceived bias on Fox is due to viewers not distinguishing between which programs are news and which are opinion-based talk shows.

Very possibly. Of the shows Lurker listed, which ones do you consider to be the hard news shows?

 

[Skepticybe]

Lurker:
I watch America's Newsroom sometimes, because Megyn (did I spell that right?) is so friggin hot! It doesn't really matter what she says, as long as she's talking that's enough for me. On this show they do a lot of reporting, then discussing. The reporting seems straightforward (with the occassional exception) but I do see a definite conservative bias in the commentary from the two hosts. That's fine by me, liberal or conservative.

Sometimes I watch Fox Report or (rarely) Special Report for news. Sometimes I watch the opinion shows to tune into a specific issue, or to stay in touch with what people are thinking.

If I'm watching Fox, I only consider the news programs to be news, plus the half-hour news updates during opinion shows. If the reporter is giving an editorial or opinion segment, I don't consider that to be a bias in reporting as long as it is presented as opinion.

Your example of the grapevine section is a good one. If it includes anti-liberal news but excludes (or diminishes) similar anti-conservative items, I would consider that biased reporting.

But mostly I watch Discovery Channel and get my news from various sources online.

I would agree that the opinion shows are strongly skewed conservative on Fox.

 

[Lurker]

Skepticybe:

Thanks for your reply. I tend to disagree a bit with some of my fellow liberals around here who tend to think the news programs are tilted right and agree with what you just wrote.

I think when Fox is doing their straight news, it tends to be fairly straightforward. Then again, I don't find the major 3 TV networks news programs to be all that biased either. Anyway, I give credit to Fox that their news programs are not too bad.

We both acknowledge that their opinion shows are heavily slanted to the right.

The problem I have is they have a disturbing tendency to mix their "news" programs with their opinion programs and for many viewers, perhaps not ones as sophisticated and alert as you, they have a hard time distinguishing them, especially when part of the same news hour.

Another oddity is their "business" program (Cavuto) is pretty much an opinion show. When I think of a business who I generally think it would report business news but that is just not the case on Cavuto. I think many viewers would not discern the difference.

 

[Skepticybe]

DavidJames and SezMe:
Wow you guys are clever, even if suffering from poor reading skills. Regardless of whatever I actually said in my post, give yourselves a big ol' pat on the back for pointing out the hypocrisy of a non-liberal. Zing I'm pwnd. Brag to your friends.

 

[Skepticybe]

The problem I have is they have a disturbing tendency to mix their "news" programs with their opinion programs and for many viewers, perhaps not ones as sophisticated and alert as you, they have a hard time distinguishing them, especially when part of the same news hour.

That's a good point. O'Reilly in particular has a strong tendency to mix lots of news in his program, then it's not always clear when he transitions to opinion. It's probably true that most of his viewers would say "yes" if asked "Is O'Reilly a good source for reliable, accurate news?" That's a tragedy.

I assume that all information on his show is opinion, and that any news reported is either cherry-picked or skewed.

 

[pgwenthold]

Don't pretend Fox News is even all that objective. Despite their whole "We Report, You Decide" nonsense, they are also slanted there.

The best example I can give was the day Iraq ratified their constitution. A pretty big news event. All the major news organizations had it as headline news. Most of them had headlines like

"Iraqis Ratify Constitution"

and variations on that theme. Sounds pretty much like what happened, right?

You know what the headline at Fox News was?

"An Historic Day"

OK, you tell me, which of these two headlines constitutes "We Report, You Decide"? Which one is spin?

But I guess if you tell people you don't distort, then they will believe you whether or not its true.

 

[SezMe]

Another way in which a bias might manifest is in the choice of which stories to present. For example, there was recently (last month or two?) campaign funding scandals on both sides of the aisle. Clinton's was the bundling of Hsu (spelling?) and the ongoing Abramhoff mess on the right. Even if one or the other story was handled evenhandedly but the other not presented at all, that would be evidence of bias. I don't watch TV at all so don't know how Fox might fare on such a measure.

 

[pomeroo]

He's kind of a joke, hopping on the idiotic lie that the media has a "liberal bias" for cash and fame. Only stupid people believe that stuff.

He is a joke because he says things you don't want to hear. A lifelong Democrat from the Bronx, Goldberg got so disgusted with the blantant leftward slant at CBS that he wrote a article about. Suddenly, he awoke to find himself a rightwinger.

 

[pomeroo]

Don't pretend Fox News is even all that objective. Despite their whole "We Report, You Decide" nonsense, they are also slanted there.

The best example I can give was the day Iraq ratified their constitution. A pretty big news event. All the major news organizations had it as headline news. Most of them had headlines like

"Iraqis Ratify Constitution"

and variations on that theme. Sounds pretty much like what happened, right?

You know what the headline at Fox News was?

"An Historic Day"

OK, you tell me, which of these two headlines constitutes "We Report, You Decide"? Which one is spin?

But I guess if you tell people you don't distort, then they will believe you whether or not its true.

If this is the best example you can produce, then Fox has made its case. The day in question was, of course, a major historic event and it is perfectly legitimate to label it as such. No bias was evident in that headline.

There is a reason why the liberals skewered in Goldberg's books never discuss the specific issues he raises: Goldberg names the offenders and quotes their words. He worked with these people for years and knows them well. Joe Ellison has never read Bias or Arrogance, so unless he wants to emulate the clueless skeptigirl in attempting to debate unread books, he is forced to confine himself to empty personal attacks.

 

[pomeroo]

No problem. I suggest we go to the FoxNews website where they post transcripts of portions of O'Reilly's shows. Over the course of a week we can examine each issue he addresses and between the two of us, tally whether he takes the conservative position or the liberal position. Some issues will be neither conservative or liberal. I assume you and I would agree on how to score each issue but if we don't, it would be skipped. We can start on Monday. At the end of the week, we see how many conservative vs liberal positions he supports.

Sound fair?

When Dan Rather concluded a 1993 interview with Bill Clinton by saying, “If we could be one-hundredth as great as you and Hillary Rodham Clinton have been in the White House, we’d take it right now and walk away winners,” do you feel that he was behaving in a professional manner?

Bill O'Reilly has interviewed Bush several times. Has he ever fawned over him?

O'Reilly has interviewed various Republican and Democratic presidential hopefuls. Is there anything to suggest that he is tougher on the Democrats?

 

[pomeroo]

I will admit that the news reporting on Foxnews is far less conservatively slanted than the rest of its programming. I think we liberals sometimes get caught up in lumping it all together but you have to remember that there is very little news in the FoxNews lineup. Let's take a look at their weekly schedule:

5AM-7 Fox & Friends First <-lighthearted news/opinion show with definite conservative bias
7-9 Fox & Friends <-lighthearted news/opinion show with definite conservative bias
9-11 America's Newsroom <-I don't watch it so don't know
11-1PM Happening Now<-I don't watch it so don't know
1PM-2 Live Desk w/ Martha<-I don't watch it so don't know
2-3 America's Pulse w/ ED Hill <-I don't watch but ED is a conservative but that does not mean the show is conservative
3-4 Studio B w/Shepard Smith <-News program, little bias IMO
4-5 Your World w/ Neil Cavuto <-Ostensibly a business program but a definite conservative bias.
5-6 The Big Story w/ Gibson <-News/opinion show with definite conservative bias
6-7 Special Report w/ Brit Hume <- News/opinion show with definite conservative bias as evidenced by his daily Grapevine Segment which attacks liberals daily
7-8 Fox Report w/ Shepard Smith <-News program, little bias IMO
8-9 O'Reilly Factor <-News/Opinion show with strong conservative bias
9-10 Hannity & Colmes <-News/Opinion show, appearance of balance but Hannity regularly gets more time to speak, stories seem to be chosen to promote conservatives or attack liberals. I'll call this a toss-up even though I think it is weighted towards conservatives
10-11 On the Record w/ Greta <-I've been told this is liberal biased but I don't watch it so don't knwo for sure. Can anyone help me out here?

So, it appears most of the shows on a daily basis are conservative in nature. Hmmm.

Your assessments are mostly fair and accurate. I would disagree about Brit Hume's show, which features at least one liberal on the "All-Stars." Fox News, taken as a whole, leans right-of-center. It is not perfectly neutral, perfect neutrality being a virtue we can't expect to find in the real world. The conservative bias at Fox is significantly less pronounced than the liberal bias at the major networks.

You strike me as open-minded. Try reading Goldberg's first book, Bias, and tell me what you think about his notorious 1996 WSJ article that started the media firestorm.

 

[pomeroo]

So, I guess you are saying that you don't understand how the lack of context can change the meaning of a quote?

For example, John McCain said, "bomb Iran!" That, by itself, sounds like McCain was calling for an immediate attack on Iran.

If, on the other hand, you could actually hear McCain singing, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!" to the Beach Boys' tune "Barbaraanne", you might realize that he was telling a joke.

Context is critical to proper understanding. The English language is too complex to simply trust sound bytes with no context.

Now you're making a specific charge, that Notable Quotables somehow distorts the quotes they present by taking them out of context. I have hundreds of issues of NQ here. Conceivably you might be able to produce an example of someone's words being presented with insufficient context. You are missing the larger point, however. The purpose of the publication is to show what liberals actually say. It is not to paint them as more extreme than they really are. It is show what liberals regard as objective, unbiased reporting.

Let me select an example from the December 31, 2007 issue: "It may be that no amount of hall decking can convince Americans to be jolly about the economy this holiday season...The drumbeat of bad news is producing national jitters...John Edwards has the message that's most consistently appealing to people suffering from economic woes. But at the same time, the Clinton brand has a strong economic reputation." -- ABC's Claire Shipman, Dec. 12 Good Morning America

Now, if the Democratic National Committee wanted to run this as an ad extolling the virtues of the Democrats seeking the White House, no one could object. But, to palm this off as journalism--?!?

The "drumbeat of bad news"? When the economic news was uniformly good over the past few years and the market was skyrocketing, we heard liberal pundits and "reporters" constantly carping about one thing or another.

Why don't you attempt the experiment I suggested to another poster and read Bias? Tell us what Goldberg gets wrong.

Y'know. The really ironic thing is that you just chided others for not knowing very much. You probably don't know as much information as you assume information. But after all, that is what skepticism is all about, correcting assumptions and misconceptions with evidence.

From Media Matters website (my emphasis):


They do not bill themselves as a neutral watchdog group. (If you think otherwise, I challenge you to back your claim.) They bill themselves as "a progressive research and informaiton center". Yes, they have a liberal view of news, but they provide you with the primary source information with extra information before and after the particular quote to provide context. You can view the clip, article, or sound clip for yourself and make your own call.

Well, it's reassuring that they label themselves accurately, but I have heard representatives of Media Matters on Fox shows describe their group as "objective."

I have no idea what that is, but it doesn't sound pleasant. Feel better.

The conjunctivitis should clear up in a matter of days. The floater could require some getting used to. But I appreciate your kind words.

 

[SezMe]

Well, this violates just about my every impression of the media but it would be confirmation bias to ignore it. It is an attempt to objectively measure media bias.

While the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal is conservative, the newspaper's news pages are liberal, even more liberal than The New York Times. The Drudge Report may have a right-wing reputation, but it leans left. Coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media. Meanwhile, almost all major media outlets tilt to the left.

I've not read the actual study but the link says they found, for example, that Drudge has a leftward tilt. Would anybody here claim that Drudge is a liberal?

ETA: Whew. I'm not the only one who questions this study. Linky.