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Bill O'Reilly

Allow me to elaborate a tad:

wha...t are you talking about when you say that "It has always been very obvious that right-wingers hate veterans"?
 
Upchurch said:
Allow me to elaborate a tad:

wha...t are you talking about when you say that "It has always been very obvious that right-wingers hate veterans"?
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I'm talking about my observations about the rhetoric about veterans from right-wing sources, which on the surface is "we love the troops." Dig below that, on any substantive issue facing veterans, and Republicans, especially right-wingers in politics and the media, turn on the vets in a heartbeat. Mentioning the issues facing veterans gets you painted as "using the vets for political gain"... which really means that the right doesn't want to deal with those issues. The troops themselves are only respected when they can be used to bolster a right-wing talking point(see Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" comments). Veterans benefits are treated as "entitlements" that need to be cut, and veterans are treated as though they were "looking for handouts." They've attacked wounded combat veterans like John Kerry and Max Cleland as being un-American, even though most of them avoided service in Vietnam.
 
JoeEllison said:
I'm talking about my observations about the rhetoric about veterans from right-wing sources, which on the surface is "we love the troops." Dig below that, on any substantive issue facing veterans, and Republicans, especially right-wingers in politics and the media, turn on the vets in a heartbeat. Mentioning the issues facing veterans gets you painted as "using the vets for political gain"... which really means that the right doesn't want to deal with those issues. The troops themselves are only respected when they can be used to bolster a right-wing talking point(see Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" comments). Veterans benefits are treated as "entitlements" that need to be cut, and veterans are treated as though they were "looking for handouts." They've attacked wounded combat veterans like John Kerry and Max Cleland as being un-American, even though most of them avoided service in Vietnam.
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Liberals speak of veterans in only the most glowing and honorable terms.

"They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."
JFK APRIL 22, 1971

"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the–of–the historical customs, religious customs."
JFK December 6, 2005

President Reagan signed the Veterans' Benefits Improvement Act of 1984.
What did Bill Clinton do for veterans, active military, or anyone in a uniform?
 
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JoeEllison said:
I'm talking about my observations about the rhetoric about veterans from right-wing sources, which on the surface is "we love the troops." Dig below that, on any substantive issue facing veterans, and Republicans, especially right-wingers in politics and the media, turn on the vets in a heartbeat. Mentioning the issues facing veterans gets you painted as "using the vets for political gain"... which really means that the right doesn't want to deal with those issues. The troops themselves are only respected when they can be used to bolster a right-wing talking point(see Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" comments). Veterans benefits are treated as "entitlements" that need to be cut, and veterans are treated as though they were "looking for handouts." They've attacked wounded combat veterans like John Kerry and Max Cleland as being un-American, even though most of them avoided service in Vietnam.
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I'm sure you can produce evidence for your claim that Kerry and Cleland have been attacked as "un-American."
 
pomeroo said:
I'm sure you can produce evidence for your claim that Kerry and Cleland have been attacked as "un-American."
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It is odd that JoeEllison castigates "right wingers" for having a mile wide, but inch deep, support for veterans when "left wingers" have a mile wide, AND mile deep, intolerance and resentment for American who wear, and have worn, their country's uniform.
 
Cicero said:
It is odd that JoeEllison castigates "right wingers" for having a mile wide, but inch deep, support for veterans when "left wingers" have a mile wide, AND mile deep, intolerance and resentment for American who wear, and have worn, their country's uniform.
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I personally don't see how either of these positions are true. Right wing conservatives put yellow ribbons on their cars and send care packages to Iraq, and left wing conservatives put yellow ribbons on their cars and send care packages to Iraq. The politicians on either side use the military to gain the support of whatever crowd they are talking to. Good politicians support the troops, but not politicians who are good. Soldiers do things that are unspeakable, but we still want to support them, because they only do those things because a "wicked and evil" government put them in a bad position. So the troops are good, politicians are bad, and stereotypes are in vogue.

Nevertheless, to hear Bill O'Reilly deny the very existence of homeless veterans is sickening. That is what is at issue here (note the thread title).
 
Almost all the comics and entertainers going to the middle east are from the left...
I think it IS supporting our troops to bring them home rather then letting them die for some fuzzy ideal. Lives are being destroyed and no one can say what is being gained. Tons of devastated lives... tons of dollars spent-- tons of damaged minds, bodies, and lives-- for what? What great thing have we got for this great cost?

I suspect the right pretends to support the war but it's not their precious loved ones that are dying there-- their loved ones are getting more power and money rebuilding Iraq or partying in America while they send other peoples' loved ones into a war based on a lie. It's easy to support a war that empowers you. When the people who have something to gain are also the ones with something to lose, I suspect there will a lot fewer wars.
 
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JoeEllison said:
LOL, it is interesting how someone would prove that "the left" smears veterans, by smearing a decorated combat veteran... pretty much proving MY point.
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JFK is allowed to smear veterans because he received decorations for his service in Vietnam (which he supposedly threw over the White House fence in 1971) and, therefore, is inoculated against any criticism? This is some stacked deck libs enjoy dealing from the bottom of.

Of course the left is somewhat fickle in their support for veterans. Only those who tow the liberal line are given a pass while those, like General Petraeus, are shown gratitude for their service with Moveon.org headline, "General Betray Us."
 
articulett said:
Almost all the comics and entertainers going to the middle east are from the left...
I think it IS supporting our troops to bring them home rather then letting them die for some fuzzy ideal. Lives are being destroyed and no one can say what is being gained. Tons of devastated lives... tons of dollars spent-- tons of damaged minds, bodies, and lives-- for what? What great thing have we got for this great cost?

I suspect the right pretends to support the war but it's not their precious loved ones that are dying there-- their loved ones are getting more power and money rebuilding Iraq or partying in America while they send other peoples' loved ones into a war based on a lie. It's easy to support a war that empowers you. When the people who have something to gain are also the ones with something to lose, I suspect there will a lot fewer wars.
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To be fair, the only thing funny about right-wingers is how stupid their positions are. Not too many INTENTIONALLY funny right-wingers. :p As far as entertainers in general, I think it is probably evenly split left/right. Lots of country "music" people do the USO shows, after all. And even a scumbag like Bill-O gives to charity and such.

Of course real support means keeping the troops out of conflicts of choice like the Iraq invasion, which has done nothing to make us more secure. That's something that people like Bill O'Reilly can't understand.
 
articulett said:
Almost all the comics and entertainers going to the middle east are from the left...
I think it IS supporting our troops to bring them home rather then letting them die for some fuzzy ideal. Lives are being destroyed and no one can say what is being gained. Tons of devastated lives... tons of dollars spent-- tons of damaged minds, bodies, and lives-- for what? What great thing have we got for this great cost?

I suspect the right pretends to support the war but it's not their precious loved ones that are dying there-- their loved ones are getting more power and money rebuilding Iraq or partying in America while they send other peoples' loved ones into a war based on a lie. It's easy to support a war that empowers you. When the people who have something to gain are also the ones with something to lose, I suspect there will a lot fewer wars.
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Too bad you missed this soldier's letter that was published posthumously on his blog for the Rocky Mountain News called "From the Front Lines." He was killed while his unit went to distribute supplies donated from the U.S. to "help Iraqis down on their luck. I think he had people like you in mind when he wrote it.

"What I don't want this to be is a chance for me, or anyone else, to be maudlin. I'm dead. That sucks, at least for me and my family and friends. But all the tears in the world aren't going to bring me back, so I would prefer that people remember the good things about me rather than mourning my loss. (If it turns out a specific number of tears will, in fact, bring me back to life, then by all means, break out the onions.) I had a pretty good life, as I noted above. Sure, all things being equal I would have preferred to have more time, but I have no business complaining with all the good fortune I've enjoyed in my life. So if you're up for that, put on a little 80s music (preferably vintage 1980-1984), grab a Coke and have a drink with me...

...I do ask (not that I'm in a position to enforce this) that no one try to use my death to further their political purposes. I went to Iraq and did what I did for my reasons, not yours. My life isn't a chit to be used to bludgeon people to silence on either side. If you think the U.S. should stay in Iraq, don't drag me into it by claiming that somehow my death demands us staying in Iraq. If you think the U.S. ought to get out tomorrow, don't cite my name as an example of someone's life who was wasted by our mission in Iraq...

...This is the hardest part. While I certainly have no desire to die, at this point I no longer have any worries. That is not true of the woman who made my life something to enjoy rather than something merely to survive. She put up with all of my faults, and they are myriad, she endured separations again and again...I cannot imagine being more fortunate in love than I have been with Amanda. Now she has to go on without me, and while a cynic might observe she's better off, I know that this is a terrible burden I have placed on her, and I would give almost anything if she would not have to bear it. It seems that is not an option. I cannot imagine anything more painful than that, and if there is an afterlife, this is a pain I'll bear forever."

Major Andrew Olmsted, age 37, KIA Iraq January 3, 2008
 
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Cicero said:
Too bad you missed this soldier's letter that was published posthumously on his blog for the Rocky Mountain News called "From the Front Lines." He was killed while his unit went to distribute supplies donated from the U.S. to "help Iraqis down on their luck. I think he had people like you in mind when he wrote it.
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Interesting, and good sentiments, but remind me of why this matters?
 
m_huber said:
Interesting, and good sentiments, but remind me of why this matters?
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Someone's about to make himself look foolish AGAIN. I'm not going to say who, but it starts with "c" and ends in "icero"... :D Something about missing the point.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
As reprehensive as I found that ad, you are misstating it. The headline was "Will General Petreus Betray Us." That's not quite the same as you straw man.

Two wrongs make one "right" though I suppose.
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... and two(dozen? hundred?) lies makes a right-winger?

These are people who base all their views on lies, and support them with more lies, and a healthy dose of hatefulness towards pretty much everyone as the glue that holds them together. :rolleyes:
 
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