Bigots oppose another NYC mosque

[leftysergeant]

Oh, there is much more to neo-progressivism than mere opposition to Christianity.

What the hell is a neo-progressive? Canm you give me an example? Not sure I've ever met one.

But I should add that the typical liberal in an internet political forum is not a neoprogressive of the "new barbarian" ilk. It's just that many leftist ideologues and bloggers are neoprogressives, and do influence the liberals.

Sounds like a load of gobbledygook to me.

I'm a liberal because capitalism tolerates some practices that neither scripture nor science can reconcile with God's will.

I also realize that I cannot impose my relgious beliefs on anyone else. As is stated in the Qur'an, "there can be no compulsion in belief." A kufir may tell you to your face that he is a Muslim, but, the minute you turn your back, will throw the Qur'an over his shoulder and wander off to work some mischief on his neighbor.

There are a lot of hypocritical "Christians" who will do the same. How many of the "Christian right" are making bloody FORTUNES from usury these days? They should burn in hell.

So I am quite happy to let those who would not testify over the reciever of a rifle, nor do dawah with dynamite have their places of worship any place where they have enough people to form a congregation. Just do not expect me to attend worship services as a social obligation.

Homo sapiens is a social animal. We do not thrive in isolation, either as cultures or as individuals. Note, please, that no great civilization ever arose in a place where lines of communication did not meet. No civilization develops where there is not a dense enough population, with adequate food supplies, to divide labor and develop specialized skills.

And no civilization develops where there are not core beliefs and customs to unite people to a common cause, to give them a sense of inter-dependence, and to enjoin them to be a benefit to each other.

There are many points around which people may gather to unite in a common cause, but places of worship are the natural focus for those who hold deep religious beliefs, and they are the place where those beliefs and the values attendant thereto are most clearly expressed and, ideally, acted upon. To deny anyone reasonable access to or the right to assemble in a place of worship is to cut them off from one of the sources of support and comfort that humans have devised in order to cope with the challenges of the world.

To deny the right to assemble for worship and fellowship with those who share their values deprives them of a part of their humanity. No human being has the right to do that to another.

But for any religious fanatic to insist that I worship as he does, that I give alms where he does, that I believe as he does and that I condsuct myself as he does is also to deny me my humanity.

So it harms me not in the least that followers of a faith which I do not follow assemble peacefully.

It does harm me when they interfere with my life.

Those who oppose the building of new mosques out of hatred and fear of Islam are depriving their fellow citizens the right to follow their conscience, to comfort and encourage one another in the faith, and to derive what joy in life their relgion and the support of co-religionists can provide.

In denying them that part of their humanity, the bigots give up some claim to their own humanity.

Legal disclaimer: The views above are entirely my own and do not represent the views of all persons who belief as I do.

 

[Toontown]

And i knew your Left-Right nonsense is a red herring, but i wondered if you do that with everyone. and why? why do you use that red herring?

Bald hypocrisy. Strike three.

For one example of your hypocrisy, I submit the following:

"i suspected already that conservatives are not fully developed Humans, now they have found evidence. interesting."

Do those words ring a bell? They're your words, from another thread. Many examples of left-rightyness can be found in your words.

Not to mention the fact that you've been systematically attempting to badger me for some time, because you think I'm a neocon. Because what little you see is squinted at myopically through the haze of leftist dogma.

As for your repeated red herring question, it's all about left vs right in these political forums. This thread is all about left vs right. The sole purpose of the thread is to paint all conservatives with the broad brush of religious bigotry. The teababblers who were carefully selected for the purpose are just the Trojan horse in which the real conservative-bashing agenda rides. Not that I don't agree that Islam is ideologically hostile to Western values. That's pathetically obvious.

So why not go straight to the heart of the matter?

 

[DC]

Bald hypocrisy. Strike three.

For one example of your hypocrisy, I submit the following:

"i suspected already that conservatives are not fully developed Humans, now they have found evidence. interesting."

Do those words ring a bell? They're your words, from another thread. Many examples of left-rightyness can be found in your words.

Not to mention the fact that you've been systematically attempting to badger me for some time, because you think I'm a neocon. Because what little you see is squinted at myopically through the haze of leftist dogma.

As for your repeated red herring question, it's all about left vs right in these political forums. This thread is all about left vs right. The sole purpose of the thread is to paint all conservatives with the broad brush of religious bigotry. The teababblers who were carefully selected for the purpose are just the Trojan horse in which the real conservative-bashing agenda rides. Not that I don't agree that Islam is ideologically hostile to Western values. That's pathetically obvious.

So why not go straight to the heart of the matter?

no i didn't think you are a neocon. i only know you from this thread or i don't remember earlier debates with you. And i see politics far more differentiated than only left and right. that is silly.

and the quote was not meant serious. The statement is so extremely wrong i would have thought it would be clear to everyone that it was sarcastic.

but one thing is clear you are far to fixated on left vs right. its like seeing the rainbow in black and white.

 

[A'isha]

As for your repeated red herring question, it's all about left vs right in these political forums. This thread is all about left vs right. The sole purpose of the thread is to paint all conservatives with the broad brush of religious bigotry. The teababblers who were carefully selected for the purpose are just the Trojan horse in which the real conservative-bashing agenda rides. Not that I don't agree that Islam is ideologically hostile to Western values. That's pathetically obvious.

So, you're offended that you, as a conservative, are being painted with the broad brush of religious bigotry, just because you agree with those bigots that "Islam" is inherently incompatible with Western values?

 

[Toontown]

What the hell is a neo-progressive? Canm you give me an example? Not sure I've ever met one

That's why I posted the link, lefty. I wouldn't expect you to have met the French professors who schooled Pol Pot.

Sounds like a load of gobbledygook to me.

I'm a liberal because capitalism tolerates some practices that neither scripture nor science can reconcile with God's will.

Uh...right, lefty.

Yer left...yer left...yer left, right, left...

I also realize that I cannot impose my relgious beliefs on anyone else. As is stated in the Qur'an, "there can be no compulsion in belief."

And I thank the logically impossible, invisible, nonexistent Creator Entity for that...

On second thought, I thank the founding fathers for that.

A kufir may tell you to your face that he is a Muslim, but, the minute you turn your back, will throw the Qur'an over his shoulder and wander off to work some mischief on his neighbor."

Yeah, I know. The way they assault and oppress their Christian neighbors in Muslim countries. Because their imams tell them to.

There are a lot of hypocritical "Christians" who will do the same. How many of the "Christian right" are making bloody FORTUNES from usury these days? They should burn in hell."

No one should burn in hell. Eternal burning is cruel and unusual punishment on steroids.

Not to mention the fact that sadism on that level is pure evil and utterly dishonorable.

Not to mention the fact that a "plan of salvation" which results in the eternal torture of billions is not much of a "plan of salvation". Better to have not made men at all, than to "save" them in such an eternally savage manner.

Save them from what, exactly? Seems to me that what men need saving from is the savage supernatural beast who failed to create them to His satisfaction, and can see no other way of redress than to torture them forever in a burning hell. Which, frankly, looks like nothing more than an excuse to indulge in sadism. If the horrid creature actually existed, that is.

And no civilization develops where there are not core beliefs and customs to unite people to a common cause, to give them a sense of inter-dependence, and to enjoin them to be a benefit to each other."

Thanks for the sermon, lefty, but I knew that. I just think it might be within the capacity of man to come up with "core beliefs" which do not rely on killer torture-gods, and the utterly selfish desire to live forever in a mansion full of virgins, whatever it takes.

To deny the right to assemble for worship and fellowship with those who share their values deprives them of a part of their humanity. No human being has the right to do that to another."

And that is obviously not happening. The place is crawling with mosques. It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

 

[T.A.M.]

Fortunately, nobody looks to you to tell us who is and is not allowed to be considered a decent, patriotic American.

No, unfortunately most look to FOX News.

TAM

 

[A'isha]

And that is obviously not happening. The place is crawling with mosques. It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

If the problem is not with mosques, but with a mosque at that specific site near Ground Zero (since you appear to be referring to the Park51 project), then why the opposition to the mosque in the OP (which is in Brooklyn)? Why the opposition to the mosque in Staten Island? Why the opposition to the mosque in Tennessee?!

 

[johnny karate]

It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

Tell me about it! I'm constantly asking people to surrender their Constitutionally-protected rights to accommodate my irrational sensibilities, and no one ever complies. It's just so gosh darn frustrating!

 

[Cleon]

The place is crawling with mosques. It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

Yes, it's absolutely awful that we won't set aside the rights to freedom of religion, speech, and assembly based on an opinion poll.

 

[leftysergeant]

And that is obviously not happening. The place is crawling with mosques. It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

Yeah, well, those who oppose the mopsque are asking for what they do not deserve.

It is possible for 70% of the country to be wrong. The possibility of their being wrong increases greatly if their entire knowledge of the issue has been filtered through the diseased minds of the whackadoodles on Faux News or that slimeball Breitbart or the shrieking little Coulter-wannabe Geller. If you get your information from idiots, you come to an idiotic conclusion.

A good number of those who oppose the Park 51 project think that it is actually on ground where the WTC used to stand. Screw 'em. Nobody has to worry about the sensitivities of the disinformed when making decisions concerning public policy.

Those who oppose all the new mosque construction are invited to kiss my ring.

(I keep it in my hip pocket.)

They aren't good Americans.

 

[Toontown]

If the problem is not with mosques, but with a mosque at that specific site near Ground Zero (since you appear to be referring to the Park51 project), then why the opposition to the mosque in the OP (which is in Brooklyn)? Why the opposition to the mosque in Staten Island? Why the opposition to the mosque in Tennessee?!

Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Brooklyn? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Staten Island? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Tennessee?

Are you opposed to the constitutional right of peaceful assembly and protest? Are religions somehow constitutionally protected from dissent? And if so, why has the left been getting away with all the Christian bashing for lo these many decades?

 

[Cleon]

Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Brooklyn? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Staten Island? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Tennessee?

Repeating the questions don't actually answer them, you know.

Are you opposed to the constitutional right of peaceful assembly and protest? Are religions somehow constitutionally protected from dissent?

Way to burn that strawman.

And if so, why has the left been getting away with all the Christian bashing for lo these many decades?

This is a really, really, really lame attempt at a tu-quoque. Can you point to a single instance of the "left" protesting the construction of a church simply because it's a church?

 

[A'isha]

Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Brooklyn? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Staten Island? Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Tennessee?

Yes, that's what I asked. Got any answers?

Are you opposed to the constitutional right of peaceful assembly and protest?

Nope. Even the KKK has the right to hold protests and marches (as the ACLU, that bastion of leftism, has repeatedly fought for). Doesn't make the KKK, or the reasons for their marches, any less bigoted because they're protected, though.

Are religions somehow constitutionally protected from dissent? And if so, why has the left been getting away with all the Christian bashing for lo these many decades?

What protests against the construction of churches by "the left", including said protesters seeking to legally prevent such construction from being carried out, can you cite?

 

[Thunder]

Why the opposition to the opposition to the mosque in Brooklyn?

cause there is no logical or rational reason to oppose opening a new mosque in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, unlike the WTC, is not hallowed ground.

 

[Thunder]

The place is crawling with mosques. It's just that 70% of Americans are opposed to a mosque in that particular place.

But they and their leftist supporters niggardly refuse to grant the American people that small request.

the day we legislate based on polls, is the day the USA dies.

we are a Representative democracy. that's how the Constitution made us. never forget that.

there is one, ONLY one way to take the pulse of the American people. and that is from votes on election day.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for civility.

 

[kerikiwi]

Not sure if you intentionally ignored it, but jk was being ironic.

It is hard to tell the difference sometimes, isn't it?

 

[Toontown]

So, you're offended that you, as a conservative, are being painted with the broad brush of religious bigotry, just because you agree with those bigots that "Islam" is inherently incompatible with Western values?

I'm not a "conservative".

To call people "bigots" who peacefully oppose a religious ideology is itself bigoted and wrong-headed. People have a constitutionally protected right to peacefully oppose any damn ideology they don't like. In fact, the declaration of independence claims the right of the people to actually take up arms against an oppressive ideology which attempts to impose itself on them in the form of a government. Which is precisely what Islam has done in most Islam-dominated countries. And if they should ever try that here, our armed forces are sworn by oath to take their ideologically domineering asses out.

As I attempted to explain to DC, your convenient, ideologically motivated definition of "bigotry" is wrong. Opposition to an ideology is not bigotry. Or else you're all bigots.

 

[Thunder]

I'm not a "conservative".

To call people "bigots" who peacefully oppose a religious ideology is itself bigoted and wrong-headed.

No, if those folks are lying about the religion, and fail to fully learn about and understand the religion they are opposing, then they are indeed bigots.

Its the same for any ideology. It is pure ignorance and stupidity to condemn a political or economic ideology that one does not fully understand, or chooses to not fully understand.

Now, is it "bigotry" to lie about and oppose Communism, or Capitalism, or Liberalism, or to oppose these ideologies without being fully educated about them? No, because bigotry can only applied to a religion, race, ethnicity, culture, etc.

I am against, and even hate "9-11 Truth". This does not make me a "bigot".

 

[kerikiwi]

I do not consider anyone protesting the mosque to have any moral authority or right to be heard unless they have participated in attempts to bulldoze the Westboro Baptist Church.

That is a known threat to American values.

They would need to be attempting to bulldoze other, unconnected christian churches