Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[carcharodon]

It is absurd for you to continue with the assertion that what we see in this film is beyond the easily available technology of 1967 .. That is a Footer straw man that was burned long before you showed up..

Burned? By who? Didn't see the pictures of bigfoot suits from the 1970s and 1980s and even 1990s then?

I'll post them again seeing as NOBODY is commenting on them:

1975

1977

1987

1997

Where are the ones that even approach, nevermind better, the P/G subject then? Can you direct them to me and why did these crap 1970s and 1980s and 1990s suits not utilise all this wonderful technology that was around even before 1967???

Like the laughable stills and footage of ol' Bob Heironimus walking 'just like Patty' and also in his ewok suit..................these suits are ignored by the super scoftics because they don't suit (pardon the pun) their arguments. This is what bigfoot suits looks like. They DON'T look or move like the P/G subject.

 

[carcharodon]

How about we leave FX suits, debating tactics and semantics aside for a second and get to the core reason why you guys believe in Bigfoot despite the absence of hard evidence? By that I mean what has convinced you guys that although no one has ever found one of these creatures and the majority of scientists believe it to be nonsense, it is real?

I already answered that question when I first started posting. Snitch asked for it. I politely and cordially gave him my reasons. Then the sniping, ridiculing and tattle tailing began. It went downhill from there.

 

[carcharodon]

Thank you kitakaze for once again showing your disturbed side....your rudeness, disrespect, and false accusations.

You are a troubled individual.

In actual fact, troubled boy....I simply responded to your question to Lyndon, concerning the validity of using "evidence for alien civilizations" as a comparison to "evidence for Bigfoot".

Well in Sweaty. I can't believe the simple minds of some of the folks here. Snitch (kitakaze) was the one who bloody brought up the question of aliens in the first place in an attempt to make an equation with bigfoot and then when you simply and innocently attempt to play his game you are roundly attacked and admonished for it.

The hypocricy here continues to amaze me every time I visit.

Snitch: "what about aliens?"

Sweaty: "Here ya go"

Snitch et all:"&%$** how dare you try and sidetrack this argument about bigfoot you %$*%ing troll bas%$*.

Sweaty: "Er well YOU actually brought up aliens"

Snitch et all: "Grumble, grumble, grumble troll ba%$*&!!"



The funny thing is Sweaty..............they just can't see what they are doing and that really is funny.

 

[Aepervius]

Well I don't psot ehre often

But since you are accusing the other of being biased, let me tell you this.

All what the picture of Sweatyeti proves is that he is attributing to his "evidence" a way higher strength than any of us give. I mean , look at the picture. Look at the answered post. There are similar 100% natural formation on earth. So, no, Sweatyeti don't show evidence of alien on mars, it only shows evidence that the same phenomenon which have built such formation on earth might be behind similar formation on Mars. it is certainly not evidence of alien life by any strength. Still Sweatyeti advance them to be evidence of Alien life. I don't want to break rule 6 so I won't say an expletive starting with a W ending with a F and a T in the middle.

If you guy have the same standard of strength for evidence of Yeti/Big foot existence... Oh My. Then the existing evidence must be waaaaaaay poorer than you make them be. And that is the GIST of the problem. With such a poor evidence you start believing hard-core while the rest of the world is still waiting for a corpse (be it an alien one or a big foot one).

 

[SweatyYeti]

Aepervius wrote:

look at the picture. Look at the answered post. There are similar 100% natural formation on earth.

Teresa found a picture of a rock formation with a square hole in it.....but that's all so far.
There are other anomalies in the other images.....and still plenty more where those came from.

It's quite telling that nobody has made any comment on the picture I posted at the top of the page.....and described the anomaly in it.


Greg, not surprisingly, sees nothing anomalous in any of the pictures. But will he, or anyone else, ever supply pictures of comparable examples of "geology" found on Earth??

The answer is....no, they won't.

 

[Locknar]

Yeti - A number of folks have responded to your pics from Mars; if you don't see them either you are not looking or have them on ignore.

What do these pics have to do with the thread topic of "Bigfoot"? If you wish to discuss Mars, please start a seperate thread.

 

[Teresa.Hall]

Aepervius wrote:


Teresa found a picture of a rock formation with a square hole in it.....but that's all so far.
But will he, or anyone else, ever supply pictures of comparable examples of "geology" found on Earth??

The answer is....no, they won't.

Actually in just a quick google I found all sorts of anomalous rock formations found right here on planet Earth. I could do this all day but I'm going to stop because I'd like to get back on topic. Google "odd rock formations" Sweaty, you'll get all sorts of interesting formations. The rock formation you say is odd at the top of the page you're referring to looks a bit like a snake or serpent shaped rock jutting outward (if that's the one you're referring to) With that in mind I found the last picture bottom right in answer to your serpent type formation at the top. I think mine is even better than yours. One needn't travel to Mars to see outstanding oddities.

 

[LTC8K6]

Ivan Marx made a suit and a movie that fooled John Green in 1970.

 

[William Parcher]

What was it about the Marx suit and film that Green found so compelling? This was already three years after the PGF. Did he explain what it was that fooled him, and how lessons could be learned?

Did Meldrum give any reasons for being compelled by the Snow Walker video, and lessons learned?

 

[RayG]

Ivan Marx made a suit and a movie that fooled John Green in 1970.

Was that this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs7xmVBOftQ

RayG

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip...Concerning The Ape Suits

As for the suits I was genuinely surprised to see what Hollywood was making back then. (Though I don't remember seeing anything that proved the dates of these suits.)

It seems you missed for some reason this link:
http://www.gorillamen.com/
Go to the galleries section. You'll find those (as well as many other pictures) organized according to the films (year included) they featured.

Nevertheless, those pictures of the ape costumes made me even more suspicious because it now appears that Patterson had the skill to build an anatomically correct costume, complete with short hair, and what appears to be all the major muscle groups, moving breasts, jiggling flesh, super-long arms with moving digits and human-like feet, that supposedly left prints that were deeper than a human could make.

The key word here is appears. Its appears for you (and some other people) that features seen in the film are moving muscles. For me (and some other people) they are the result of poor image quality combined with patterns created by light an shadow. I will write again: You are making statements based solely in your perceptions. Perceptions, in this case, are a poor excuse for evidence. Human perceptions are far from being flawless and are subject to be highly influenced by personal bias. Given PGF quality and background, your perception, your interpretation are far from being enough for you to say I or anyone else am being dishonest because I do not agree with what you say. Again, what you are saying is not an argument, its just an ad hom.

This would mean that Patterson would have had to have been a better costume maker than anyone in Hollywood at that time. Somehow that just doesn't sit right with me.

Lets suppose you are correct and P&G lacked the skills needed to build such a suit. Is there any reason to suppose they could not have bought or rented and eventually modified a custume?

If those suits were filmed under the same conditions of PGF (lack of resolution, lightining, shaky camera) and eventually submitted to similar image enhancements, I think the (or lack of) features seen would be quite similar.

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip... But will he, or anyone else, ever supply pictures of comparable examples of "geology" found on Earth??

The answer is....no, they won't.

Here's the result of a quick googling for joints and fractures:
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/FieldImages/JointsMcCormicksCreek.jpeg
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/FieldImages/AnhydriteJointsIowa.jpeg
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/FieldImages/CapeBretonFrxrs.jpeg
http://homepage.usask.ca/~mjr347//prog/geoe118/images/joint3.gif
http://homepage.usask.ca/~mjr347//prog/geoe118/geoe118.055.html
http://www.uwec.edu/jolhm/EH/Below/Images/LimestoneJoints.gif
http://www.geocities.com/aamezentsev/FracturesSmall.jpg

You can also try Google Earth.

ETA:
Here's the result of 5 minutes of Google Earth.
Lat: 28.266071°
Long:33.983598°

Similar feature was displayed at a Digging for the Truth special episode on Atlantis I saw last weekend. It was a sonar 3d imagery from the Eastern Mediterranean, interpreted as part of a chanell and a wall. Acoustic survey indicated it was nothing but an intrusion.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Diogenes,
...........................

The man in a suit theory seems forced, whereas the flesh and blood theory seems very natural to me. I don't want you to give up on me. Challenge my beliefs. That's what I'm here for. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so at this time. Who knows, something you say in the future may stop me in my tracks and cause me to reconsider my current stance. It just hasn't reached that point yet. Maybe it never will. Then again, who knows? People can change.

Thanks for your patience with me concerning these matters.

I'm looking forward to more healthy debates,

Luminous

Thanks for taking some time to explain where you are coming from ..

I can be sort of hit –and- run myself, but I’m sure you can understand it gets a little old, going
over the same stuff again and again.

I know going through this whole thread can be daunting; I doubt there are more than a few dozen
posts that are really worthwhile. But it is just as hard for me to go back and pick them out as it
would be for you .. Try to take some time to skim through it when you have a chance,
If you look at my first post in this thread, I think you can see I approached this with a pretty open
mind. I hadn’t decided for sure it was a costume . I really hadn’t given much thought to the
Bigfoot question at all ..


Also try to brouse through the ‘ Simple Challenge ‘ thread ..

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70782



To address the point that I quoted you on above .. “ .. The man in a suit theory seems forced .. “

Think about it this way ..

If there is no Bigfoot, and I believe the overwhelming lack of verifiable evidence, leans in that
direction, then Patty has to be a suit .. If that is the case, to what degree people think it looks like
a suit , is really beside the point …

Take a look at some of the topics I started over at BFF ..

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index....c385b58b7&search_in=topics&result_type=topics

It is very hard to find any of the strong proponents, conceding that my observations had any merit at all .
About the closest any of them ever come to agreeing with the flaws I point out, is that it must be an anomaly with the film ..

But on the other hand, you will see that very few members at BFF argue for the authenticity of the PGF at all.
This Is because they realize without a Body, or the costume, it will always remain inconclusive, and it is not good evidence of anything except the ability of the human mind to see what it wants to see.

Here is one more problem I have with the PGF that I feel argues against it being a real Bigfoot.
If Roger Patterson believed he filmed a real Bigfoot, he was well aware that tracking it down would be worth far more than this little piece of film.
It is clear that he made virtually no effort at all to track down this, or any other Bigfoot after he offered this film as the real thing.
All the lame excuses in the world do nothing to counter this fact.

Oh, and one more of my favorite observations..

If there are Bigfeet, they may very well look like a bad fur suit .. All we need to do is find one...

 

[Correa Neto]

Lookie!

Bigfoot head in Mars!!!!

Oooooh! Photographic anomalies!
Whats next?
Orbs?

 

[SweatyYeti]

Well in Sweaty. I can't believe the simple minds of some of the folks here. Snitch (kitakaze) was the one who bloody brought up the question of aliens in the first place in an attempt to make an equation with bigfoot and then when you simply and innocently attempt to play his game you are roundly attacked and admonished for it.

The hypocricy here continues to amaze me every time I visit.

Snitch: "what about aliens?"

Sweaty: "Here ya go"

Snitch et all:"&%$** how dare you try and sidetrack this argument about bigfoot you %$*%ing troll bas%$*.

Sweaty: "Er well YOU actually brought up aliens"

Snitch et all: "Grumble, grumble, grumble troll ba%$*&!!"



The funny thing is Sweaty..............they just can't see what they are doing and that really is funny.

Very true, Lyndon. Nice re-cap.

With kitakaze it's a case "blind hostility".....pure and simple.

There wasn't the slightest reason for any hostility in his response........but it doesn't matter to him...he "goes for it" anyway, automatically.

While their rudeness, and game-playing can be funny...(see "Kitty Goes Nuts"...and LTC's Interview )....it's also sad, and pathetic behavior.
It shows no respect for other people's humanity, and their valuable time.


Hey....I have an idea....how about we race over to the other board.....last one there (and the first one, too) is a happy camper!!

 

[LTC8K6]

RayG, I think it was the clip from which this still came:

However the right foot of the actor in that youtube video looks like the cripplefoot track to me.

WP, Dahinden accepted it, and John Green even wrote a tribute authenticating Marx's video.

Most of the hunters were saying for publication that Marx had the genuine article. René conceded reluctantly that such might be the case, more from a desire to believe Marx's wife, whom he respected and liked and who was confirming her husband's story, than from conviction. John Green arrived and wasted no time in declaring the film authentic. He offered Marx eight hundred dollars for a copy, of which action Rene reflects dryly, "I guess he wanted two Sasquatch films." (The other one being the Patterson film.)
Green was moved to write a tribute to Marx for the pages of the Bigfoot
Bulletin, a mimeographed publication sent out intermittently from a base
in Oakland, California. Part of it read: "I am satisfied...that he could
not have faked all he has to show, and that the film is genuine."

 

[Luminous]

So that's it? Just a dismissal and a "best wishes"??

What did you want me to say, go jump in a lake? It's a non-issue. It actually distracts from my point. If I had more time, I'd do a search for you. But it's irrelevant anyway.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Teresa Hall wrote:

With that in mind I found the last picture bottom right in answer to your serpent type formation at the top. I think mine is even better than yours.

The picture you're talking about, that's "similar" to the anomaly in the Mars image is not in the least bit comparable.
I don't have time right now to get into the details....plus I'm in a race at the moment to get over to the other forum.....the one that doesn't reek of BS, like this one does.

BTW.....concerning your accusation against me.....you never did answer my question about exactly what I did that constitutes being a troll.

You don't have to back-up your accusation, Teresa....but it's not a sign of personal integrity to accuse someone of something, and then run away.

 

[LTC8K6]

RayG you might have the right clip after all. It was 1970 and it was supposedly film of the Bossburg cripple. It has to be that clip, RayG.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, they mention the cripple stepping on a stick, and the stick hitting it in the leg. It has to be this Marx video which was considered authentic by John Green and others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs7xmVBOftQ

It was eventually exposed, but not because the suit was poor.