Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[LAL]

So, still no Bigfoot then?

I'd have thought after so much vehement and learned debate that you would have produced one by now. I'll check back in another 2 or 3 pages time...

Too busy posting on message boards to go shoot one. So sorry.

 

[LTC8K6]

Ray Crowe holding a completely different Wallace fake cast in his left hand. That one looks nothing like any of the others.

 

[LTC8K6]

That could be a Rogerfoot, Diogenes. Taking into account the changes that occur when enlarging and casting, of course.

 

[LAL]

You should think a bit harder on the issue.

I'm thinking of filtering you, actually. You will then have all the time you need to write your paper and impress Meldrum with your brillance, or try to anyway. I see no point in continuing the discussion when you can't even tell the difference between a question and a claim.

Bye, for now.

 

[LAL]

Ray Crowe holding a completely different Wallace fake cast in his left hand. That one looks nothing like any of the others.

That's what a real cast from a Wallace fake foot (there's a pair on BFF) looks like. You can't see the difference between that clutzy fake and the real deal?

I've never seen such lame arguments in my life. This is more like a parlor game than a debate.....or should that be de bait?

 

[LAL]

From Reader's Digest Jan 1969:

Condensed from West Magazine by James B. Shuman

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/readers.htm

 

[LAL]

So we can, in fact, include those alligator prints as supposed bigfoot prints then? It is not a ridiculous thing for a skeptic to do at all, since Loren Coleman would consider the left track a possible bigfoot track.

We've been over this before.

There are some tracks that show fewer than five toes that are not alligator tracks. It's thought the little toe just didn't print or possibly there's an inbred population in the East that has missing toes, a genetic defect, IOW. I haven't been able to find pictures of them yet.

You have no idea what Coleman would do; why don't you stop this nonsense?

 

[LAL]

Also from the Reader's Digest Article:

"Nine days later, Robert "Bob" Titmus, a former taxidermist who lives in Kitimat, B.C., examined and made plaster casts of ten of the creature's huge footprints. Titmus has studied Bigfoot intensively since 1958, and considers himself an expert at spotting the occasional hoax. Said he: "I can conceive of no method by which these tracks might have been faked. Tests indicated that the creature that made them would have to weigh at least 600 to 700 pounds." "

 

[Blazer]

I met the guy who made the gorilla suit for Roger Patterson...Phillip Morris of Morris Costumes. 14" feet and all...

Google "morris costumes bigfoot" and you will find a news article where Mr. Morris is interviewed about this.

 

[LAL]

Lu, a while ago in this forum you suggested that Patterson didn't really make any money off of the PGF. I was skeptical that that was true and asked if you knew anything about his later involvement in a (non-profit?) organization called "American National... something". I also mentioned an account of Patterson tossing a pile of cash around in a hotel room during the tour he made with DeAtley showing the film.

Maybe this will clear up the confusion.


"Perhaps by the time you read this, Sasquatch's existence will have been proved. Roger Patterson, financed by $75,000 from the Northwest Research Association, of Yakima, Washington a maker of documentary films, is continuing his search. This time he is using lures, dogs and tranquilizer guns hoping to capture a living specimen."

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/readers.htm

NRA, not ANE. Wasn't that the corporation Roger and his brother-in-law formed?

Yep.

(Patterson himself has published a book, a 172-page collection of newspaper clippings, interviews, photographs and drawings from his investigations through 1966. It serves best to update Sanderson's 1961 book for interested readers. It was published by the Northwest Research association of Yakima, and sold for three dollars.)

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/wildlife1968.htm

So De Atley made $75,000 of the film and, if they split 50-50, Roger was financed with his own money. It doesn't sound like Patricia got much out of this, does it? She owns the rights.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Little money if any was made from the Book while Patterson was alive.. I believe a guy named Koeling(sp?) went broke publishing the book..

It is documented that Patterson and DeAtley made a lot more than $75,000 touring theaters with the film..


I could be wrong.. I don't feel like digging up sources..


None of this has any bearing on whether the film shows a real live bigfoot.. There is no reason to believe it does.. And many reasons to believe it doesn't..

 

[LAL]

I met the guy who made the gorilla suit for Roger Patterson...Phillip Morris of Morris Costumes. 14" feet and all...

Google "morris costumes bigfoot" and you will find a news article where Mr. Morris is interviewed about this.

Greg Long put him in the last chapter of his book, failing, evidently, to notice his standard Gorilla suit was nothing like the suit or suits Heironimus described.

Morris has since built a suit that convinced a sceptical cyber friend with a degree in anthropology that Patty is real when she saw Bob in the Morris suit on TV. That's how good it was. Google a little harder and you'll find pics of his suits from the sixties. They were awful.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Also from the Reader's Digest Article:

"Nine days later, Robert "Bob" Titmus, a former taxidermist who lives in Kitimat, B.C., examined and made plaster casts of ten of the creature's huge footprints. Titmus has studied Bigfoot intensively since 1958, and considers himself an expert at spotting the occasional hoax. Said he: "I can conceive of no method by which these tracks might have been faked. Tests indicated that the creature that made them would have to weigh at least 600 to 700 pounds." "

Where did he get these prints, since the tracks in the creek bed were washed away.. Gimlin said there were no other tracks outside of the creek bed..

Big problem with 600 - 700 pounds.. None of your other Saints of The Church of Bigfoot ( COB ) go along with that figure...

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Hey ! Isn't that cast on the right a Rogerfoot ?

 

[LAL]

Where did he get these prints, since the tracks in the creek bed were washed away.. Gimlin said there were no other tracks outside of the creek bed..

Says who? The trackway was well above the creek. The distance between Roger and Patty when she turned was 102' and he was on the same side of the creek. I'm still trying to come up with some scale.

Big problem with 600 - 700 pounds.. None of your other Saints of The Church of Bigfoot ( COB ) go along with that figure...

Not funny. Been through this Bigfoot-is-a-religion nonsense on another board. It only ended up with mutual filtering. I've had a bad day. Don't push it. Please.

Estimates range from 500 (Patterson) to over 1500 lbs. (Glickman). Krantz was conservative and used water weight for his estimate.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Not funny. Been through this Bigfoot-is-a-religion nonsense on another board. It only ended up with mutual filtering. I've had a bad day. Don't push it. Please.

Estimates range from 500 (Patterson) to over 1500 lbs. (Glickman). Krantz was conservative and used water weight for his estimate.

Having a problem with nonsense, huh ?

 

[fsol]

Ray Crowe holding a completely different Wallace fake cast in his left hand. That one looks nothing like any of the others.

The sideways little toe on the one in his left hand looks fairly similar to the prints on the ground in those pics from the second roll of film.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1294863#post1294863

 

[LAL]

Little money if any was made from the Book while Patterson was alive.. I believe a guy named Koeling(sp?) went broke publishing the book..

It is documented that Patterson and DeAtley made a lot more than $75,000 touring theaters with the film....

Well, sure if $75,000 was De Atley's half, but I don't know that they split it that way. Did I see $84,000 somewhere?

I could be wrong.. I don't feel like digging up sources..


None of this has any bearing on whether the film shows a real live bigfoot.. There is no reason to believe it does..

I agree, but it would be interesting to know. I wouldn't be surprised if Patterson made less than De Atley since De Ately got his money back.

And many reasons to believe it doesn't..

I haven't found those to be very convincing.

 

[tube]

I just learned about this old Readers Digest article today. I suspect it may be the origin of the notion that the film subject's breasts are "pendulous". The "pendulous" claim is from Patterson himself in the article. "Pendulous" means "able to swing like a pendulum". The film subject's breasts are not pendulous at all, they are unnaturally stiff. So unnaturally stiff in fact that is the primary characteristic within the film itself that leads me to believe the film is probably a hoax.

It is also instructive how easily mythology and misinformation "has legs" as the "pendulous" appellation survives to this day among the true believers.

 

[LAL]

I just learned about this old Readers Digest article today. I suspect it may be the origin of the notion that the film subject's breasts are "pendulous". The "pendulous" claim is from Patterson himself in the article. "Pendulous" means "able to swing like a pendulum". The film subject's breasts are not pendulous at all, they are unnaturally stiff. So unnaturally stiff in fact that is the primary characteristic within the film itself that leads me to believe the film is probably a hoax.

It is also instructive how easily mythology and misinformation "has legs" as the "pendulous" appellation survives to this day among the true believers.

In common parlance it means something more like "hanging". They hang and they move. I don't think she had silicon implants, Matt.