Lu, a while ago in this forum you suggested that Patterson didn't really make any money off of the PGF.
I claimed Gimlin didn't. He eventually sold his rights to Dahinden for $26 (not $10, from what I've read). Dahinden didn't make much off the stills and spent much of his cancer-ridden final days defending his rights against webmasters who were snatching them off his site. He and Murphy worked a deal, but had words and parted ways. Dahinden was a little rough around the edges.
I don't know how much Patterson made, but it doesn't seem to have been a fortune.
I was skeptical that that was true and asked if you knew anything about his later involvement in a (non-profit?) organization called "American National... something". I also mentioned an account of Patterson tossing a pile of cash around in a hotel room during the tour he made with DeAtley showing the film.
De Atley claimed he made about $75,000 on it (See Long). I don't know Roger's per cent. He and De Atley formed a company, but I'm not sure what they called it. Coleman discusses some of this at length in the book I just lost.
Long claimed Roger was on the payroll, but nary a stub has been produced. Green said Roger didn't have a deal with them; he did. He has the contracts to prove it.
Over on BFF, the poster "Dfoot" is now creating an argument that Patterson and DeAtley really did make bunches of money from the promotion of the PGF.
Look here.
I'd like to read the rest of the thread. Dfoot is claiming Patterson and De Atley as his sources, but where are the citations? De Atley in his interview with Long said he made his money off construction. There's a thread on this, too, involving Roger Knights, me, and I don't remember who else, but I mistakenly said De Atley was cut out. Roger took me to the cleaners for that. I posted at least one article there on events around the tour.
Notice that Dfoot makes reference to "ANE". Dfoot doesn't give the acronym translation... but it is American National Enterprises.
Yep. As I recall, the film deal never came off anyway.
You earlier here tried to characterize Patterson as a poor dying man who spent the rest of his life (after PGF) pursuing Bigfoot with his own meager funds.
Mn, not quite. He never held a regular job in his life, to his brother-in-law's obvious distain (De Atley was married to Roger's sister) and was dying of Hodgkin's disease. He spent the last of his money on a wild goose chase to Tibet. He had some funding after the filming from a millionaire he mentions in one of the interviews I posted. His funding prior to the filming seems to have been $20 here and there from De Atley and $500 for the trip to California, according to De Atley. I believe De Atley paid for the self-published book, as well ($700?). De Atley implied he only helped Roger because of his wife, and he thought Roger had pulled a hoax, somehow, but he didn't seem to mind cashing in on it. Read Long.
This may not be true at all. Not only had he made and continued to make meaningful income from the PGF, he may have been drawing a salary (in addition to reimbursed expenses) from ANE to continue his "search" for another Bigfoot.
No evidence of that so far. Sorry. And even if he was funded, how does that prove a hoax, except in the minds of Long and his followers?
I've reordered the book I lost. I'll quote from Coleman (I have his permission) when I get it. In the meantime, there may be something on Coleman's boards on this; I'll look. Evidently Patterson received nothing from ANE. Patterson was involved in the Bossburg investigation, so he did continue the search, just not in California. Bossburg's a lot closer to Yakima than Bluff Creek is.
Anyone ought to be baffled as to why he didn't simply go back to Bluff Creek and work the region with a "fine-toothed comb". It was not only a historic "hotbed" of Bigfoot activity, it was also where he supposidly filmed the real deal.
A sequel, huh? Just dust off the old suit and do it again? That area was the scene of Tom Slick's PNW expedition some years earlier. Seems that's where the animosity between Green and Byrne and Dahinden and everybody began. He would still have been in touch with Hodgson, who might have been counted on to notify him of renewed activity. As Bryne said, it's like looking for a moving needle in a haystack. Hot pursuit has never worked. Besides, he and De Atley went on tour. Gimlin never got his expense money back for the trip to Bluff Creek.
This "Dfoot" is becoming a one-man-army over on BFF for the deconstruction of the PGF.
With his allegations and opinions?
Where's Scott Herriot? He's usually right in there citing Long. And he had an encounter, on film, of his own.
Who knows how long that will last.
Until his arguments are deconstructed, I suppose.
BFF is obviously a Bigfoot advocacy forum.
It's a forum for discussion which happens to have quite a few people on the pro side, including people who have had encounters.
In general, it is also a PGF advocacy forum. At this point, JREF appears to be the only active forum for ongoing deconstruction of the Bigfoot myth and the PGF myth.
Would you consider calling that an "alleged" myth? I can name you a couple of BFF members who have posted here who think the film was faked. No proof, of course, but they're entitled to their views. There are some serious researchers on BFF; don't sell them short. There are also students and housewives and an occassional immature opinionated sort, who gets suspended there but would fit right in here.
My impression from reading many, many threads on the PGF on BFF is that opinion is divided about 50-50. It's not unusual to see a poster changing to the pro side after learning more about it.
From my observations, Dfoot is pissing into the wind by posting these facts and speculations over on BFF. When one browses through the PGF threads on BFF, you notice that Dfoot has gone from caterpillar to butterfly. He once advocated strenously that the PGF was authentic and that it was not a guy in a costume.
You wouldn't be biased, would you? He shot down Chris Walas' nonsense pretty thoroughly, IMO.
Maybe he's turned from caterpillar to butterfly. Lured to the Dark Side, as it were......
Would he be expected to back up his claims here as he is there?
I somewhat wish that Dfoot would find this forum so that he can converse with like-minded individuals. He seems to have access to excellent circumstancial (yet factual) evidence that the PGF is a hoax. He deserves a better audience than the PGF-woo-sycophants which he is immersed in over at BFF. Dfoot has now characterized this bizarre realm as a cult.
I can't reply to that without violating TOS. I suggest you read the beginning of Bigfoot Follies for a look at some of the less serious posters on this forum. I thought I was up against high school line-backers. They all seem to have vanished, except for the indefatigable Bearfoot Bill.
If the mountain can't go to Mohammed.......Hm. Diogenes is Skeptical Greg over there. Maybe he'll invite Dfoot. Or more of you could go over there. You might see from that perspective that JREF is a scoftical think tank for hoax-hypothesis woos, to coin a phrase, who, as one of my cyber friends put it, think name-calling is debate. Think I'll start calling it "de bait". And there I go rising to it again.
I can't get into my account and post at this time (malfunction on the password somehow-the administrator has been notified), but I'm sure Dfoot's aware of this forum. I've mentioned it often. Knights and Crowley actually took the time to read it, at first anyway. Took Matt hours.
I don't think most of us who consider the film and other evidence authentic would care for your characterization. That's where I came in, come to think of it. Are you a high school line backer?
NASI spent $75,000 on a 3-year analysis. Have you read Glickman yet? Do you think his opinion might carry more weight than that of a Hollywood stunt man who has the honor of having worn a Morris suit and thinks they're Halloween costume quality? Heck, all Hollywood "knew" at one time Chambers built the suit, not Morris. Never mind Chambers denied it. Even Heironimus gave him credit before the story changed again. Conjecture is not evidence.
Making money off a film somehow proves it's a fake? Why try to get scientists to look at it at all if all they were doing was selling a high-priced hoax? If the Museum of Natural History in New York had taken it seriously, might they not have bought it for a decent price and no tour would have taken place? (Dang. They buy dinosaur skeletons; paleontologists must be in it for the money and all dinosaur bones are fakes!
)
Roger was rather obsessed with the quest, as were others. Dahinden died broke but he would have gladly taken any big bucks he could get. Krantz sold cast copies for research, but he didn't make money off his appearances. He figured it cost him about $100,000 in expenses and lost wages. Freeman spent about $500,000 and made $2000. This whole idea that the effort is just a money-making scheme is just another scoftical argument from those who haven't bothered to check out the facts.
I will now see what I can find out about Dfoot's "facts". I see a couple of things wrong already.
