Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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For what it's worth, I have lived in WV all my life and have been to Pt. Pleasant a few times. I remember when all this was going on. I was just a pup. Mothman didn't scare me, but the bridge collapse scared the ***** out of me. Held my breath every time I crossed a bridge for years after.
 
OK, Mothman is totally cool but getting back to the PGF, I have a question. After having read through this entire, huge thread I've learned a lot, abandoned some things which I used to be sure were good evidence for BF, and begun to seriously scrutinize my thoughts on the subject. I must admit though, even after all of this, I'm just not convinced of the certainty of the PGF being a hoax- which, is cool because that's just me. However, today I was looking at my five month old son, Lil' Kaze and thinking about the PGF. It struck me that though I believe the PGF depicts a living sasquatch, one of the things that has recently changed for me in light of this thread is that when my son is older and I show him the PGF I no longer feel I can say, "here son, is a living sasquatch." I would like to say, "here son, is what may be a live sasquatch. But it may not be because______." Herein is my question- what does everyone here feel is a concise, easily understood by say, a ten year old child explanation as to why the PGF does likely not show a living sasquatch. I apologize in advance as this is another one of my third grade questions.;)
 
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Sorry, can't prove the negative.

However, I think the best evidence that it's a hoax is the whole story around the film. The timeline, the rain, the many conflicting stories, the lack of pursuit, the lack of follow up, the lack of further sitings, the lack of the actual film, etc.
 
Sorry LT, didn't mean to sound like I was asking to prove the negative (which really bugs me when people do so), just an nice, concise sumation as to why it's likely to have been a hoax that a child would understand. Speaking only for myself, the lack of pursuit and follow up used to really bug me but not so much now. The lack of further sightings specifically of Patty in the period of time (let's say a a month or two) immediately following the film coming out, on the other hand, does bug me.
 
Hmm. How 'bout "Well, here's a video. Some people think it's a sasquatch. Some people think it's a guy in a monkey suit. Nothing's been conclusively proved either way, and nobody's ever caught a sasquatch, so we just don't know. What do you think?"
 
Cool, UrsulaV,
That's no doubt basically the same as what I would actually say. OK, let's say there's further questions by the child. Just for you, what would you feel is a good sumation of the reason why the PGF is likely a hoax? Basically same as LT? Just curious. BTW, ah man I hate to nitpick but it seems more accurate to say 'we have no proof right now that anyone's ever caught a sasquatch.' Sorry.:p
 
Hmm. How 'bout "Well, here's a video. Some people think it's a sasquatch. Some people think it's a guy in a monkey suit. Nothing's been conclusively proved either way, and nobody's ever caught a sasquatch, so we just don't know. What do you think?"

That seems about as simple and accurate as one can get.
 
Well, here's a video. Some people think it's a sasquatch. Some people think it's a guy in a monkey suit. Nothing's been conclusively proved either way, and nobody's ever caught a sasquatch, so we just don't know. What do you think?"

I can live with that.

Also:

"Here's a footprint. Some people think a sasquatch made it. Some people think it's fake. Some people think it's a mistaken id. Nothing's been conclusively proved either way, and nobody's ever caught a sasquatch, so we just don't know. What do you think?"
 
Well, in that case, I hope I can be forgiven for even after 93 pages in this thread alone and multitudes elsewhere for not giving up the belief that a serious consideration of the BF phenomenom without an outright dismissal of a real creature is a worthy proposition.
 
Cool, UrsulaV,
That's no doubt basically the same as what I would actually say. OK, let's say there's further questions by the child. Just for you, what would you feel is a good sumation of the reason why the PGF is likely a hoax? Basically same as LT? Just curious. BTW, ah man I hate to nitpick but it seems more accurate to say 'we have no proof right now that anyone's ever caught a sasquatch.' Sorry.:p

*laugh* Nitpick away--we're back to proving negatives. I can't prove that nobody's ever caught a sasquatch, but since you said "for a ten year old" I figured we might as well keep it short and sweet.

Why I think the PGF is likely a hoax? Well, it might be more accurate to say that I don't actually think it matters if the PGF is a hoax or not. There's so much accusation of hoaxing around it, and so much shadiness going on with where the original film is, or what exactly happened that day, and who may have had money to buy a monkey suit, and who came forward and admitted a hoax, etc, etc ad nauseum, that I feel the PGF is irrevocably tainted as a source of evidence.

To explain this, I'm a birder. Many birders keep lifelists, which are a list of all the birds seen in the wild in your whole life. Fine and good. It's done completely on the honor system. And generally, people are pretty accepting of the honor system, because birds are weird, and sometimes they show up in weirdass places, and if you just happen to be in the right place at the right time the day that a Siberian tit gets blow a hundred miles off course and winds up kicking around your yard, then life is good.

But.

If at any point, it is proved, or strongly called into question, whether you've been honest about your lifelist, that's it. It's over. There is no appeal, there are no apologies, you're done. It's fine to be wrong, it's fine to be mistaken--provided you admit your error immediately and don't do it too often--but if you lie or if there is serious question over whether you lied, that's the end of the matter, and nobody will ever believe you again. If you are too conveniently mistaken too often...well, not quite as bad, but it's not good, either. And all your birder friends will get embarassed smiles and gaze vaguely into the middle distance when you try to talk to them about the tyrant flycatcher you saw in the parking lot last week.

We can now argue about whether anybody gives a rat's ass what the admittedly peculiar subculture of birders think, and it's a valid enough question, but the end result remains that I would never put a bird on my lifelist unless I was dead certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that my sighting was good enough to stake my honor on. I've spotted birds and made a good guess, but I have to be SURE. Not because anybody will likely check, not because whether it's a song sparrow or a savannah sparrow is really all that important--but it matters to me.

Forgive this rather lengthy diversion, but getting back to the PGF. There's a lot of questions about the PGF. I look at the PGF, and I see a crappy video, and I see a lot of people pulling waaaaaay too much out of crappy video artifacts, and I see a lot of questions about the origin of the PGF that cannot be answered. If it was a bird, I'd never put it on my lifelist, and yes, I'd look down my nose at anyone who did. It's too little, too poor, and too much in question.

Now, thing is, the PGF shouldn't matter. If there's really a giant primate out there, unless Twit-boy is right, it should be a physical being that people could go out and find. People go out and find all kinds of bizarre crap in the jungle on obscure islands--I grew up in the PNW and it ain't Borneo. So my gut feeling is that if there were something there, we wouldn't have our primary source of evidence be a shaky video surrounded by shadows of hoaxing. When jaguars cross over from Mexico into AZ, we know immediately, and we have better footage than the PGF at once. I mean, the same DAY. We don't even need professionals, either--my fellow birders can find a tiny little drab bird lurking in the woods where it had been blown off course from Siberia two weeks ago, and take photos of the thing, and get the word out, using recorded hotlines in the days before the internet, so that people leap on planes and go see it. And this is a wee little thing that can hide in a teacup and FLY. (Which leads to another, if entirely subjective point--I know how at least one group goes after a mystery animal, and wow, they do it a lot different than a lot of the Footers. There's none of this "Well, we saw it, but we're not going to follow," crap. They go slinking and charging (depending on style) into the bush with cameras and scopes at the ready if anybody see so much as a potentially rare wren-butt vanishing into the bushes. My understanding of human nature is only my own, but the way that some of these Footer expeditions go after their quarry makes my weirdy-sense tingle.)

I could be wrong. If I am, I'm easily disproved--somebody just has to smack one with a car, like they do every other large mammal in North America. But until then, I just don't think the PGF is a good enough source to hang a whole hypothetical species on.
 
To follow up, somebody may now say "but what if they're extinct, and the PGF is the only evidence?"

Well, what if that bird I saw at the swamp a year ago was a Bachman's warbler?*

We don't know. Perhaps we won't ever know. But I will not accept shoddy evidence merely because it might be all we'll ever get. I can live with not knowing. I can't live with breaking the honor system just because damn, how cool would that be!? ya know?



*Presumed extinct.
 
Yes, very well said indeed. You have my nomination, also.:) I think that was an eloquent sumation of why the PGF cannot be accepted as quality evidence for bigfoot. Regardless of my own feelings on the PGF, this was exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for and puts things in perspective quite nicely. I thought the birder analogy was particularily apt and as some 'round here know quite well, you need only mention ivory-billed woodpeckers to get some opinions.;) Anyways, lots to think about. Cheers to you.
 
This thread was supposed to be on the validity of the Gimlin-Patterson Film,
and not on whether Bigfoot was valid or not. It has degenerated into a
mutual back-patting society where forum members congratulate each other on
being skeptical. In the real world, nobody gives a damn what you individual
people "believe", and it is just not necessary for researchers to worry about whether Kitakase or Usala (etc) are convinced or not. In fact, there are no researchers on this subject in the forum, so it is really a useless exercise
in chat.

The film is still valid and defies attempts by serious investigators to debunk it.
No monkey suit in the world has ever matched it, the walk is simply a modified human walk, since the creature is humanoid, there is no question whatever about apes or walking apes, (absurd), it has limb proportions that
do not match homo sapiens, and not those of a claimed hoaxer. The stride,
from tracks that Gimlin examined on site, is too large and long for any human under 6'5", and the foot prints could never have been made by a 14 inch "clownfoot" since the depth is vastly deep compared to what Gimlin and Titmus could do on site. There is no mid-tarsal break (joint) because the foot
does NOT come down flat, but does so heel first, with front area raised as heel enteres,, as shown in at least three frames of the film,and this info has quieted Meldrum. Also, fieldwork by this witness has shown 3000 tracks
in snow in the Cascades that have long scrape marks as heel entry, which
further shoots down the flat-foot and mid-tarsal idea.

If any of you are qualified or capable, try discussing the film, and not your personal mental states.

TR
 
The film was discussed for about the first 50 pages of the thread. Most of the things you mention were covered ad nauseum. Go back and read it. I am sure Huntster and kitakaze are surprised they are members of this back patters alliance you speak of.
 
The film was discussed for about the first 50 pages of the thread. Most of the things you mention were covered ad nauseum. Go back and read it. I am sure Huntster and kitakaze are surprised they are members of this back patters alliance you speak of.

It was yet another account of erikbeckjord.
 
It was yet another account of erikbeckjord.
aaah I see. Thanks Darat. I was guilty of giving sustenance to a troll. Not that I gave much anyway. Beckjord seems to be able to shapeshift better than he claims Patty can. Hey! Anyone ever seen EB & Patty together? Come to think of it, has anybody ever seen either one?
 
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