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Bigfoot: SweatyYeti's confusion of reliable evidence vs proof.

In other words, data cherry-picking!

Sweaty, regardless of how silly you might consider it, please show us how you can fully discount the possibility that these animals (if real) are a product of evolutionary convergence without a specimen and/or DNA.

And by the way here are some other issues which so far you have not countered...

- There are no reliable pieces of evidences presently available which could be used to back the claim "bigfeet are real" and the methodology and reasonings used by footers to support their claims quite often have big flaws and gapping holes. All other issues pale when faced with this one.

- The absence of a known chain of custody and the fact that the originals are not available for examinations render PGF (taken by many footers as the pièce de résistance when it comes o bigfoot evidence) an unreliable piece of evidence.

Oh, remember this?
"It is undesirable to believe a proposal when there is no good grounds whatever for supposing it true."
Bertrand Russell
 
Drewbot said:
If 99 out of 100 films of bigfoot are determined to be the product of a hoax,
does that make the 100th film more likely to be a hoax, or a film of a living Unclassified Hairy, giant, North American, bipedal primate?
Click to expand...


A very good question, Drew.
It gets to the heart of determining the true weight of a given piece of Bigfoot evidence.

The scarcity of possibly legitimate Bigfoot videos can have an impact on the weight of a new, alleged Bigfoot video...but it doesn't neccessarily affect it's weight. It depends on the clarity, and realism, of the new video itself.

If a new video shows a subject with a body height, inhuman body proportions, apparent muscle movement, and realism well beyond anything that a suit has ever shown, then the weight of that video would be very great, as far as it being evidence for Bigfoot's existence. The other 99 hoaxed videos would then become irrelevant to it's weight.
 
Correa Neto said:
Hey Pete Tornado, what about this:

Remember the bet I proposed? U$ 5K if your predictions (WWIII two months after USA elections) become true? I'll upgrade it.

If I win, I will use the money to pay a visit to bulletmaker's bigfoot reserve. I'm sure that with all the "activity" around, there will be plenty of chances of getting some good evidence. Footage, images, hair/tissue samples, etc. Maybe even bag one. Or maybe I'll be spooked by eyeshines and howls in the night and be converted.

Or I'll just give the money say, to finance Ben Radford or another skeptic such as Begun to check the evidence you folks claim to have.

So, what do you think? How's that for a change? I'm thinking outside the box! No old theory!
Click to expand...



no senior....it will start anytime the day after the election, to and not more than 6 weeks after the election..hold on to your pesos senior Correa

Oh, put up your money this will be easy.

Tornado
 
SweatyYeti said:
Correa Neto wrote:




Actually......no, I'm not! :)

I did notice that that quote of yours was from the article I linked to...but just because I referenced the article (regarding "hair DNA analysis") doesn't mean I agree with everything that's written in it, or that I agree with everything anyone has ever said about hair samples.

For example...as for the plausibility of Bigfoot being a real animal, descended directly from the Bear family...this is what I truly think of that proposal...


It is a silly idea. :wink:

It's completely silly. :xtongue

It's ridiculously silly. :boggled:

It's laughably silly. :biggrin:

Silly as silly EVER gets...buddy. :)
Click to expand...


You're right, it is completely silly to say that bigfoot is a bear. It is just as silly to say bigfoot is a primate. It is just as silly to say that bigfoot probably exists. Glad to see you have come around to see how silly it all is. One more person who doesn't believe in bigfoot! Yay! That's all us evil skeptics want isn't it?
 
tornado said:
no senior....it will start anytime the day after the election, to and not more than 6 weeks after the election..hold on to your pesos senior Correa

Oh, put up your money this will be easy.

Tornado
Click to expand...
OK. Let's do it, pete. Yep, this one will be easy.

Here's the deal, again-> 6 weeks after the elections and no WWIII, U$5K will will fade away from your bank account and enter in to my pocket. I'll use it either to pay a visit to bulletmaker's bigfoot reserve or donate it to a skeptical person/organization in USA to finance someone like Radford or Begun to check in the field the evidence you folks have - and publish the results. Now, if 6 weeks after the election WWIII started, you'll receive U$ 5K from my bank account; use it to buy whatever provisions you want to store at your bunker or to buy gear to investigate bigfoot.

How shall we deal with the money transfer? I suggest we can ask a JREF mod to handle the proceedures so both our bank accounts are kept undisclosed and none of us can run away. Mods, admins, can any of you help us with this "mini-challenge" and the contacts required?

By the way, before seeing your money disappear, you might want to inform yourself a bit better. Here in Brazil we do not speak Spanish and our currency is named Real. But don't worry, I'll take the U$ dollars.

BTW, congratulations. You are the first doomsday prophecy proponent that acccepted a challenge of mine. All the others presented some lame excuse and run away from it.
 
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We finally, really did it...

YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT UP!

AHHH, DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!
 
Correa Neto wrote:
Sweaty, regardless of how silly you might consider it, please show us how you can fully discount the possibility that these animals (if real) are a product of evolutionary convergence without a specimen and/or DNA.
Click to expand...


How can I fully discount that possibility?

Well, simply.....the lack of a HUGE branch of the Evolutionary Tree....which would have produced many intermediate forms in-between Bear and an Ape/Man creature. There is no evidence....living or fossilized...of any of those intermediate forms.


To give an idea of the size of that missing branch, the Bear and the Dog families branched-off from each other approx. 40 million years ago....and they still share many common features...


Dog111.jpg
Bear111.jpg



Now imagine how many millions of years further back a creature would have had to split-off from the Bear line, in order for it to evolve so differently as to more closely resemble an upright-walking, bipedal Ape/Man, than a Bear???

It would have been probably 100 million years earlier, or more.
As a result, that particular branch would have had many, many more side-branches off of it.
So the question is......WHERE are all of those side-branches....all those other species??? (Besides in the imaginations of Jref "skeptics"? ;) )

Answer......absolutely nowhere.


"Hmmmmm.........interesting....intriguing, and just a tad confusing"....

bobdylan_2_tif_big.jpg
 
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Ah, sweaty, but you know, acid soils, scavenging activity, small number of specimens and poor preservation odds... Recognize the line of reasoning?

Nope. You can't fully discount this possibility without DNA or a specimen.

To give an idea of the size of that missing branch, the Bear and the Dog families branched-off from each other approx. 40 million years ago....and they still share many common features...
Now imagine how many millions of years further back a creature would have had to split-off from the Bear line, in order for it to evolve so differently as to more closely resemble an upright-walking, bipedal Ape/Man, than a Bear???

It would have been probably 100 million years earlier, or more.
Click to expand...
It seems you should improve your understanding of evolution as a whole... An extra evidence that you need to study a bit more of evolution and biology as a whole is the 100my age frame for the divide you took out of your hat. You can not, simply by posting pics of a bear and a dog say how close or how far both species are. You need a specimen or DNA. The evidence quality must be way better than what you are presenting.

Following your reasoning, a tasmanian tiger would be very close to the dog, a tasmanian devil very close to the bear.
tasmanian_tiger.jpg

This critter must be very close to dogs, eh? How can you, based on this pic (way better than PGF) say its not related to dogs?

I could go on, but its overkill.

How far are hippos from pigs or elephants or horses or whales? How long it took for them to diverge? Simply comparing pics won't make it, sweaty... You need to study the anatomy and the DNA to answer these questions.
 
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/blog...-ohannonornithorhynchus-gianatinus-17702.html

If only bigfoot proponents had this type of evidence to support bigfoot's existence.

Above Article said:
Speaking from inside a scale model of the GIANTANTIC, SEA GOING PREHISTORIC PLATYPUS - OHANNONORNITHORHYNCHUS GIANATINUS, our anonymous source continued "This scale model is only 1/58 natural size, meaning that the real GIANTANTIC, SEA GOING PREHISTORIC PLATYPUS - OHANNONORNITHORHYNCHUS GIANATINUS would have been over 9 miles in length! And since the GIANTANTIC, SEA GOING PREHISTORIC PLATYPUS - OHANNONORNITHORHYNCHUS GIANATINUS was omnivorous, all the theories related to the extinction of dinosaurs and other species will have to be put aside as it is perfectly obvious that the GIANTANTIC, SEA GOING PREHISTORIC PLATYPUS - OHANNONORNITHORHYNCHUS GIANATINUS ate them all, in addition to sea dragons and mermaids!"
Click to expand...
 
Monster platypuses would RULE!! Although the fear they'd instill might make my lifelong dream to retire to Australia and raise the normal ones to replace the ferret as the yuppie pet a little more difficult.
 
Correa Neto wrote:
Simply comparing pics won't make it, sweaty...
Click to expand...


Actually, Correa...what ain't gonna "make it" is your "Bigfoot via Bear, by way of Tasmania" proposal.

I guess the lack of any, and all, of the hundreds of living or fossilized transitional forms between Bear and Apeman has forced your "Magical Mystery Theory" ride to take that little detour.

Let's see........where to next....:rolleyes:.....I know, maybe we can hop on the Polar Express and visit the North Pole, to see the Polar Bears!! Perhaps they'll have a clue as to where we can find some (or at least one) of those missing species.....obviously you don't! ;)


but you know, acid soils, scavenging activity, small number of specimens and poor preservation odds... Recognize the line of reasoning?
Click to expand...


That reasoning applied towards one, or even a few, missing species is very different than if it was applied to a WHOLE, COMPLETE, missing group of creatures which spans the entire '100 million+ year' gap between Bears and an Ape/Man type creature.
 
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The Man-Bear-Ape connection is no sillier than assuming a Giant Tree Dwelling, possibly bipedal ape, migrated thousands of miles, to terrain vastly different than the southeast asian terrain it was known to inhabit.
 
Drewbot said:
The Man-Bear-Ape connection is no sillier than assuming a Giant Tree Dwelling, possibly bipedal ape, migrated thousands of miles, to terrain vastly different than the southeast asian terrain it was known to inhabit.
Click to expand...


They may register equally on your 'silly meter', Drew......but there is a huge difference between the two, as far as evidence goes.

"Bear/Apeman" theory.....Zippo evidence. (That's, not a shred.....nuttin'....zilcho-o-roni....the big ZERO....total vacuum....etc.)

"Bigfoot Primate" theory....Lots and Lots and Lots of evidence.

See the difference?
 
SweatyYeti said:
"Bigfoot Primate" theory....Lots and Lots and Lots of evidence.
Click to expand...

Eh, Please name one piece of reliable evidence.

See the vicious cycle which occurs repeatedly when arguing the existence of a non-existant creature?
 
Drewbot said:
Eh, Please name one piece of reliable evidence.

See the vicious cycle which occurs repeatedly when arguing the existence of a non-existant creature?
Click to expand...


No...I see fear of answering a simple 'Yes' or 'No' question. :)

It's typical of the "skeptics" here.


We'll try it one more time:

They may register equally on your 'silly meter', Drew......but there is a huge difference between the two, as far as evidence goes.

"Bear/Apeman" theory.....Zippo evidence. (That's, not a shred.....nuttin'....zilcho-o-roni....the big ZERO....total vacuum....etc.)

"Bigfoot Primate" theory....Lots and Lots and Lots of evidence.

See the difference?
Click to expand...
 
SweatyYeti said:
No...I see fear of answering a simple 'Yes' or 'No' question. :)

It's typical of the "skeptics" here.


We'll try it one more time:
Click to expand...


Typical of woo-ists:

Woo: There's much more evidence unicorn horns are made of ivory than hair, do you agree?

Skeptic: Ummm... there is no evidence of unicorns whatsoever.

Woo: A-HA!! I knew you'd be afraid to answer the question.


rollbarf.gif
 
Chromosomes running amuck in the animal kingdom.
Those deer giving "that funny look", at his fellow
forest dwellers.
The rabbit that is a little more nervous now,
as it drinks from the water pool.

Ducks in the pond will waddle over with a bit extra enthusiasm.
Rutting season would be a complete terror in the woods.
Frank and Ted in their tree stands, contemplate, as they witness
a complete species confusion playing out before their eyes,
on How they are going to explain this one back home.

All the Rabbits, missing that day, when all the worries were the hawk and fox.
Learning to run faster, and foe acquiring a keener sense.
This back and forth progression, ongoing , for all to be.
Is Nature having it's way with us, never to have, just out of the reach, of this upper edge.

Now we have this Bear-deer running around not knowing
what or who...to do. If it learns to burrow...dread the thought,
we'll need a longer claw to dig even deeper.

If this forest is to play fair,
we need to keep our genes in order here... I think.

And the migration of Man-ape in pickup trucks can be resolved
If everything is kept in their proper place.

I guess Bigfoot is off somewhere, not giving a hoot
that it's not in our zoology books.
 
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