Merged Bigfoot follies

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Diogenes said:
And even more incredible, scat and hair with no analyzable DNA !.. :eek:
If you array the "evidence" presented in this thread alone, the fact that there is no DNA evidence is what makes this laughable.

This, with a backdrop that any reporter or scientist who proved bigfoot's existence would be apt to achieve fame and fortune.

Do adherents contend that bigfoot has supernatural powers to erase dna from existence?
 
varwoche said:
If you array the "evidence" presented in this thread alone, the fact that there is no DNA evidence is what makes this laughable.

This, with a backdrop that any reporter or scientist who proved bigfoot's existence would be apt to achieve fame and fortune.

Do adherents contend that bigfoot has supernatural powers to erase dna from existence?

I don’t know how good that line of argument is though. I’m not an expert of forensic DNA analysis but, is it not very difficult (read impossible) to get DNA from hair? Hair is usually analyzed by it’s structure. Same with scat however you should get some dead cells from the GI tract.

With both materials, don’t we need a specimen to compare it with? Otherwise the best one could hope for might be “this is an animal of unknown type.” Pretty useless. If someone were cleaver they might be able to get hair from several ape species, how would a forensics person (probably in a hurry and not looking at the stuff very carefully) know what he or she is looking at?
 
The Odd Emperor said:
I don’t know how good that line of argument is though. I’m not an expert of forensic DNA analysis but, is it not very difficult (read impossible) to get DNA from hair? Hair is usually analyzed by it’s structure. Same with scat however you should get some dead cells from the GI tract.

With both materials, don’t we need a specimen to compare it with? Otherwise the best one could hope for might be “this is an animal of unknown type.” Pretty useless. If someone were cleaver they might be able to get hair from several ape species, how would a forensics person (probably in a hurry and not looking at the stuff very carefully) know what he or she is looking at?
Granted, useable DNA is not that easy to come by.. But the claim is that there is ' tons ' of evidence..

Most notably the ' chewed ' fruit .. The absence of DNA in those samples, is more incredible than any claim for the existance of the creature..


The easiest way out on that one is to say " O.K. This piece of fruit was obviously not chewed on by a Bigfoot.. "

But they cannot seem to let it go, and claim it is some of the ' best ' evidence they have..
 
Diogenes said:
Granted, useable DNA is not that easy to come by.. But the claim is that there is ' tons ' of evidence..

Most notably the ' chewed ' fruit .. The absence of DNA in those samples, is more incredible than any claim for the existance of the creature..


The easiest way out on that one is to say " O.K. This piece of fruit was obviously not chewed on by a Bigfoot.. "

But they cannot seem to let it go, and claim it is some of the ' best ' evidence they have..

Well, it seems to come down to a few people trying to short circuit the system. I mean, even if they got a scrap of tissue, would a lab really be able to tell it was from an orangutan and not a Bigfoot? Sure we could tell it was Joe Bigfoot and not Sam Bigfoot but, we don’t know what Bigfoot DNA looks like! Perhaps it’s from an escaped orangutan or orangutan DNA is 99.99% like Bigfoot DNA.

To me it’s very weak evidence unless and until we are able to examine one to get a baseline on what the heck we are looking at.
 
LTC8K6 said:
The hair would need to have been pulled out with it's follicle. The DNA would be in the follicle.
Wouldn't hair with follicles be typical of ' shed ' hair, or hair that had snagged on something?

Bigfeet ( or is it Bigfoots ), who have this skill for eradicating DNA evidence, also seem to have a tendecy to cut the hair that they leave lying around..
 
The Odd Emperor said:
To me it’s very weak evidence unless and until we are able to examine one to get a baseline on what the heck we are looking at.
I agree, but it is weak evidence we don't have.

If there was a sample of ' unknown primate ' DNA, do you think the Bigfooters would be holding it up as ' weak ' evidence ? LAL Would be beating us with it, to within an inch of our lives...:D
 
Diogenes said:
I agree, but it is weak evidence we don't have.

If there was a sample of ' unknown primate ' DNA, do you think the Bigfooters would be holding it up as ' weak ' evidence ? LAL Would be beating us with it, to within an inch of our lives...:D

May I someday have the opportunity to do so. I hope it's a really big piece.

Hair from the Skookum Cast was so close to human contamination couldn't be ruled out, although the hair itself wasn't human, but if the samples weren't contaminated (and how does one determine that?) we already have "unknown primate" DNA.

Got some for the Yeti (or other unknown Asian animal):


"In early April, 2001, British scientists made a startling announcement. After examining the DNA in a strand of hair thought to come from a Yeti - the Asian cousin to America's Bigfoot - scientists were unable to identify it as coming from any known animal.

This astonishing discovery is the most recent peak of what has become a growing mountain of evidence that we share this planet with an as-yet undiscovered species - or perhaps several species - of bipedal primates. And whether they are a kind of ape or are more closely related to humans - or something in-between - is unknown. But this new scientific evidence combined with new detailed photos and an increasing number of compelling sightings holds the promise that we may be very close to solving the mystery.

The DNA Evidence
The great Himalayan mountain range lies on the border between India, Nepal and Tibet, which is now part of China. The existence of the Yeti has been known to the people of this region for centuries. The first reliable report of a sighting from a Westerner came in 1925 when N.A. Tombazi, a Greek photographer working as part of a British geological expedition, saw the creature from a distance of about 1,000 feet. Although he did not get a photo of the Yeti, he and other members of the expedition did find footprints. Over the years, many other stories of the Yeti surfaced, and in the West it became known popularly as "The Abominable Snowman." (For more on the history of Yeti sightings, see "Yeti: Abominable Snowman of the Himalayas".)

The long black strand of hair examined by the British scientists was found on the bark of cedar tree in the Kingdom of Bhutan, a small country on the eastern side of the Himalayas. The tall, hairy creature is believed by many locals to inhabit the forests and mountains of Bhutan, where it is called the Migyur. The British were led to this particular tree by Sonam Dhendup, the kingdom's official Yeti hunter. Locals had found a mysterious piece of skin in the hollow of the cedar tree, which they think the creature might have called home. Carefully examining the area, the British scientists found fresh footprints just a few hours old. Inside the tree, they noted claw-like scratch marks and found several strands of the hair.

Some of the hair was taken back to the UK for DNA testing. Bryan Sykes, Professor of Human Genetics at the Oxford Institute of Molecular Medicine and one of the world's leading experts on DNA analysis examined the hair. "We found some DNA in it," he said, "but we don't know what it is. It's not a human, not a bear not anything else we have so far been able to identify. It's a mystery and I never thought this would end in a mystery. We have never encountered DNA that we couldn't recognize before."
 
Diogenes said:
And even more incredible, scat and hair with no analyzable DNA !.. :eek:

Not quite. The hair gave up something.
The scat from Skookum Meadows gave up plenty of bacterial DNA, but evidently there were no body cells from whatever animal it came from in the sample tested.

Prior problems:

"Re: Interim Statement on the Blue Mountain / Ohio Hair.

After lengthy deliberation, we (W. H. Fahrenbach, J. A. Poe, and P. Fuerst), co-authors of the intended article on the Eastern Washington hair found in August, 1995, have decided to withhold submission of the manuscript of the analysis until more DNA from tissue, preferably with attached hair, is obtained. Our studies have not yielded a sequenced mitochondrial gene fragment to determine the phylogenetic affiliation of the creature. The ambiguous results at the present time can, on the one hand, generate misplaced enthusiasm and be quoted as "proof", or, on the other hand, can be used by the opposite camp to criticize and denigrate the results unfairly.

This decision emphasizes the critical need to obtain tissue samples rather than hair alone. Such should be fresh blood or possibly minimal shreds of torn skin caught on some obstruction. Feces are not suitable at the present time. If such suggestive remains are detected, they should be collected without contact by human hands directly into a vial containing 70% alcohol and forwarded to one of the undersigned investigators (hair to WHF).

Dr. W. H. Fahrenbach ([email protected])
Beaverton, Oregon

Dr. P. Fuerst
Department of Molecular Genetics
Ohio State University
484 W. 12th Ave.
Columbus, Ohio 43210"

And:

"Update, November 3, 1999:


I have by now a dozen purported sasquatch hair samples, all morphologically congruent (which rules out hoaxing) and all effectively indistinguishable from a human hair of the particular structure (great variability is available among the latter). DNA extracted from both hair shaft or roots (hair demonstrably fresh) was too fragmented to permit gene sequencing. That characteristic is also sometimes found in human hair that lacks the medulla (as does sasquatch hair - at least what I am willing to identify as such).

I am concentrating now on blood or tissue, as the hair holds no promise. Feces do so even less, since the DNA collecting has to be done while they are practically steaming fresh, and it is improbable in the extreme that anybody with fecal DNA expertize would stumble onto fresh sasquatch droppings."

http://www.bfro.net/REF/THEORIES/WHF/dnatests.htm
 
varwoche said:
If you array the "evidence" presented in this thread alone, the fact that there is no DNA evidence is what makes this laughable.

This, with a backdrop that any reporter or scientist who proved bigfoot's existence would be apt to achieve fame and fortune.

Do adherents contend that bigfoot has supernatural powers to erase dna from existence?

I certainly hope not.

See Fahrenbach's opinion. He was with the Oregon Primate Research center in Beaverton, Oregon, and is an expert in microscopy.
 
Diogenes said:
Wouldn't hair with follicles be typical of ' shed ' hair, or hair that had snagged on something?

Bigfeet ( or is it Bigfoots ), who have this skill for eradicating DNA evidence, also seem to have a tendecy to cut the hair that they leave lying around..

The hair was not cut. That's been made clear.
 
Diogenes said:
Granted, useable DNA is not that easy to come by.. But the claim is that there is ' tons ' of evidence..

Most notably the ' chewed ' fruit .. The absence of DNA in those samples, is more incredible than any claim for the existance of the creature..


The easiest way out on that one is to say " O.K. This piece of fruit was obviously not chewed on by a Bigfoot.. "

But they cannot seem to let it go, and claim it is some of the ' best ' evidence they have..

Who said it's some of the best evidence? The chewed peel was found near the wallow and was part of the bait. In testing it "refused to give up any products for amplification". The cast is some of the "best evidence" , but the fruit, hair, footprints and scat found neaby were never touted as "best evidence", to my knowlege. Who's this "they"?

Funny, the DNA from a cigarette butt identifying a criminal was used on an NCSI rerun a night or two after that was mentioned. Strange coincidence, huh? It was from a Mafiosa.

If something else chewed the fruit why didn't DNA show up indicating another animal chewed it? Do you want me to believe elk (which would have eaten it whole) hide their DNA?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Wouldn't there even be shed skin cells in the footprint?

Too busy pouring hydrocal in them , I guess....

Good point. It was usually plaster. I wonder if anyone looked? The Cree reportedly excavated tracks rather than casting them. Seems they're getting co-operation from no one, but there might have been something shed in those tracks.
 
The testing on the Skookum Cast hairs was done by DNA expert Dr. Craig Newton from BC Research in Canada, BTW.
 
LTC8K6 said:
They can't say that a bigfoot didn't chew the fruit because that blows their reasoning for the skookum cast.

Huh?

You think it's an elk with an Achilles tendon in the knee, right? Yeah, right.
 
I distinctly recall that the explanation for the skookum cast was the way bigfoot positioned itself to reach for the fruit.

Of course, if our hoaxer "chewed" the fruit, there wouldn't be any DNA now would there?

I know, I know, no one would ever think of doing that.....

So there may be an unknown primate in Bhutan, what has that got to with bigfoot? It's far more likely that there is an unknown primate in Bhutan.

According to some on line DNA testing companies, a 4mm long piece of hair is all they need.

Humans leave DNA all over the place. Everywhere you've been, you've left useable DNA samples from all sorts of stuff you have touched, worn, etc.
 
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