Merged Bigfoot follies

[Resume]

A little investigation will show this fellow was promoted and put into the media by Tom Biscardi.

So?

Yes , there certainly are sighting reports of large cats in KY. A quick Google search of Mountain lions in KY, Mammoth Cave Mystery cat, and this one should give you the info you seek:

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...puma-found-kentucky-since-civil-war/20487277/

Still laughing? Chris B.

This was the post:

Panthers live in Kentucky?
You are not even limiting it to Puma. Not only are you going out on that Bigfooter limb and saying Panthera exists in Kentucky, but implying that it is obvious that they do.

This is truly hilarious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera

Only the tiger, lion, leopard and jaguar have the anatomical structure that enables them to roar.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Resume,

First, about Tom Biscardi, he's a known hoaxer and media hound. Remember the GA freezer boys? So anything he promotes is questionable.

Second, both mountain lion and black panther have been reported in KY by eye witnesses.
Although a panther has not been officially collected as of yet, a mountain lion has.

I'm not suggesting a breeding population of either cat. How could I? But for whatever reason both cats are reported here. You can speculate they are immigrants or captive releases, or whatever else to explain their presence, I only suggest they are present here.

Regarding the link, it would be more reasonable for me to accept there are possibly more than 1 mountain lion in KY. A wildlife officer shot and killed one recently. Is it more reasonable to accept there was only the one lion in the entire state and the officer was able to locate and kill it? If that's the case, I'd like for that guy to buy me a lottery ticket. Or one better, let's put him on the case of Bigfoot.
Chris B.

 

[Biscuit]

Biscuit, you are going to have to inform cryptozoology that they have got their own definition all wrong.

It would be faster to inform them of the things they have gotten right.

 

[The Shrike]

Chris, this is the list of extant mammals in Kentucky compiled by the American Society of Mammalogists.

Here are some notable species missing from this list:

puma - does not occur in a black morph
jaguar - melanistic morph is sometimes referred to as a black panther
leopard - melanistic morph is sometimes referred to as a black panther
jaguarundi - the melanistic morph of this species could be mistaken for a melanistic leopard or jaguar

Here's a working definition of a cryptid:

"In cryptozoology and sometimes in cryptobotany, a cryptid (from the Greek κρύπτω, krypto, meaning "hide") is a creature or plant whose existence has been suggested but has not been discovered or documented by the scientific community.[1]"

Given recent confirmations of North American pumas in Midwest and East, I would not consider this species to qualify as a cryptid in the state of Kentucky. Its occurrence is no longer disputed, although important questions remain regarding the likelihood of breeding populations re-establishing. Also, just because a puma or two has been killed on a train track or caught on a game cam does NOT mean that every schmo with an "I seen one" story actually did.

Those other species (potential black panthers), however, do meet the definition of cryptids in the state of Kentucky: If people claim to see them but their existence cannot be confirmed, then they're cryptids.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Shrike, by definition the melanistic jag exists, so by definition I would not take it to be a cryptid, regardless where it's located. I admit, they're supposedly extremely rare even in areas with a breeding population of jaguars. But, they're still documented. Chris B.

added: Maybe you're thinking of a black mountain lion? That would be neat.

 

[Resume]

Resume,

First, about Tom Biscardi, he's a known hoaxer and media hound. Remember the GA freezer boys? So anything he promotes is questionable.

Every single thing uttered by bigfoot proponents is questionable. I don't perceive the difference you're trying to suggest.

Second, both mountain lion and black panther have been reported in KY by eye witnesses.

Eyewitnesses report a lot of things.

Although a panther has not been officially collected as of yet, a mountain lion has.

Unless you have a pet panther in your backyard, I wouldn't hold my breath on the black panther thing. Big fat black tomcats, sure. In fact, I'd bet that's what people are seeing. And I don't wager.

 

[MikeG]

....jaguarundi - the melanistic morph of this species could be mistaken for a melanistic leopard or jaguar........

Could it? It's a very different size, and quite a different shape. I suppose at a distance in poor light you might be right.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Resume,

First, about Tom Biscardi, he's a known hoaxer and media hound. Remember the GA freezer boys? So anything he promotes is questionable.

Second, both mountain lion and black panther have been reported in KY by eye witnesses.
Although a panther has not been officially collected as of yet, a mountain lion has.

I'm not suggesting a breeding population of either cat. How could I? But for whatever reason both cats are reported here. You can speculate they are immigrants or captive releases, or whatever else to explain their presence, I only suggest they are present here.

Regarding the link, it would be more reasonable for me to accept there are possibly more than 1 mountain lion in KY. A wildlife officer shot and killed one recently. Is it more reasonable to accept there was only the one lion in the entire state and the officer was able to locate and kill it? If that's the case, I'd like for that guy to buy me a lottery ticket. Or one better, let's put him on the case of Bigfoot.
Chris B.

Roger Patterson: known hoaxer, anything promoted by him was questionable

Paul Freeman: known hoaxer, anything promoted by him was questionable

Don Jeff: known fraudster who sells casts of known fake prints, anything promoted by him is questionable.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Roger Patterson: known hoaxer, anything promoted by him was questionable

Possibly, but his film is still debated daily after all this time. I'd say TBD.

Paul Freeman: known hoaxer, anything promoted by him was questionable

Absolutely, his Bigfoot film subject was his son in a suit IMO.

Don Jeff: known fraudster who sells casts of known fake prints, anything promoted by him is questionable.

I disagree on this one. Although his associations have become clouded as of late, I've not seen any evidence to label Dr Jeff as a hoaxer. Chris B.

 

[William Parcher]

Could it? It's a very different size, and quite a different shape. I suppose at a distance in poor light you might be right.

What is probably happening most of the time is that people see black housecats and think they are seeing panthers. When we see photos and videos of "panthers" from the USA and UK and Australia what they show are housecats which are usually black.

There are probably various reasons why this happens.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Every single thing uttered by bigfoot proponents is questionable. I don't perceive the difference you're trying to suggest.

I'm suggesting that there is a difference when considering the evidence. If your buddy comes back from a hunting trip and says "Resume, I think I saw Bigfoot." It may be worth considering. But if Rick Dyer tells you "I think I saw a Bigfoot", run, don't walk.

Eyewitnesses report a lot of things.

They do, and some are mistaken, some lying, yet some are accurate. Can you reasonably assume all eye witnesses are wrong or lying? That's less likely than Bigfoot.

Unless you have a pet panther in your backyard, I wouldn't hold my breath on the black panther thing. Big fat black tomcats, sure. In fact, I'd bet that's what people are seeing. And I don't wager.

No, I don't keep any exotic pets. I think you are correct that many sightings of large black cats are actually domestic fat cats, but there are a few sightings that may have merit. Chris B.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Possibly, but his film is still debated daily after all this time. I'd say TBD.


Absolutely, his Bigfoot film subject was his son in a suit IMO.

I disagree on this one. Although his associations have become clouded as of late, I've not seen any evidence to label Dr Jeff as a hoaxer. Chris B.

The PGF isn't really debated daily, though... It's hardly much of a debate.

Jeff has been known to flog plaster-casts of fake prints (not that any are actually genuinely Bigfoot, but...)

 

[eerok]

Can you reasonably assume all eye witnesses are wrong or lying?

When it's a bigfoot sighting, yes, because it's reasonable to consider the existence of bigfoot to be ridiculous. After thousands of years of human habitation in North America, there's not one single shred of objective evidence for bigfoot. Nothing.

Stories may be enough for you, but the science community ignores bigfoot because there's nothing to study. If there was the remotest chance that bigfoot could exist, there'd be a horde of scientists all over it, hungry for fame and fortune. That should tell you something.

 

[The Shrike]

Shrike, by definition the melanistic jag exists, so by definition I would not take it to be a cryptid, regardless where it's located.

Again, words mean stuff. Here's the definition of cryptid:

"In cryptozoology and sometimes in cryptobotany, a cryptid (from the Greek κρύπτω, krypto, meaning "hide") is a creature or plant whose existence has been suggested but has not been discovered or documented by the scientific community.[1]"

You claim that people in Kentucky are seeing black panthers. This is the "existence has been suggested" part.

The American Society of Mammalogists - and any other similar group one might ask - denies the existence of melanistic (or otherwise) jaguars, leopards, or jaguarundis in Kentucky (escaped exotics notwithstanding of course), as well as the existence of melanistic pumas anywhere in the world. This is the "not been discovered or documented by the scientific community" part.

So by definition black panthers in Kentucky are cryptids.

 

[Resume]

They do, and some are mistaken, some lying, yet some are accurate. Can you reasonably assume all eye witnesses are wrong or lying? That's less likely than Bigfoot.

Every single mermaid, werewolf, fairy reporter was lying, deluded or mistaken.

 

[HarryHenderson]

...about Tom Biscardi, he's a known hoaxer and media hound. Remember the GA freezer boys?...

Your insincerity is showing. "Remember the Georgia freezer boys?" Really? It's as if in every post you make you've just stepped off a spaceship and know nothing of the present place and time. You pretending it's our ignorance by asking such inane and idiotic questions, which you do all the time, proves several things. One, that you're not paying as close attention as the 'top shelf' Bigfooter you pretend to be should. You're apparently unaware of the ongoing 3,000+ post thread here, or the first one or the second one. ALL of them dedicated to the un-endowed Georgia freezer boy himself. We not only remember the Georgia freezer boys, we ******* chewed 'em up and spit 'em out.

I know you remember those threads, but to maintain compliance with forum rules, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

What it all really proves though is you're just a gamer. And curiously that's nothing to do with how you're also "gaming the system" here by insuring the pablum opinion you express is behind rules that favor antagonism over honesty.

Earlier in this thread:

Yes, everyone has a favorite anecdote about the thing they didn't see in the woods, until they did see it. (Mine? Hen turkey on a nest.)

Yes, the average American schmo could walk past a stationary Liberace in the woods and be none the wiser.

But . . . like Mike and Chris, many people who do spend their time in the woods and who do develop keen powers of observation and learn some woodcraft - none of whom has ever collected so much as a toenail clipping of a bigfoot - would be much more likely to detect a big, stationary animal, rhinestones notwithstanding. Heck, if you know the trick that I know, you too could walk right up to a wolf spider in the grass having spotted it from 50m away.

Of course, hiding and seeking is silly as all get-out. For one, the important thing would not be how many bungling city people in 2015 would be clueless about the stationary bigfoot in their midst, it would be the professional market gunners and trappers from centuries of old who would've seen those bigfoots, heard those snapping twigs, etc. and planted a musket ball right between the eyes of one of them boogers. The other - so hilariously downplayed by Chris when it was brought up - is that ol' footy-foo-foo's oft-described stank would betray his position so readily. That was some of the most emphatic bigfooty-lore backpedaling I think I've ever seen on this quest!

And to answer the (always) thoughtful and intelligent post above by The Shrike, you retort with:

You know Shrike, if you take the time to read the reports for yourself, you'll find some report an odor and some don't. Easy peasy. So if you ever walk up on old big and hairy someday, he may be stinky or not. Chris B.

Really? That's all you got? That a mythical beast may be stinky...or not? Gee thanks Mr. Wizard. Just more of your constantly pointing out absurd obviousness. It's not ironic you're uncommitted on the stinky issue yet absolutely positive the beast itself exists in spite of the [wait for it] "absurd obviousness" it doesn't. Easy peasy.

There's more:

Doubtful, but there are reports of gray and white color creatures as well.
Chris B.

The question was do they turn white when it snows. And you answer with "doubtful"? Once again, really? I guess you had to say that though huh. You saying no way would, instead of making you look savvy and honest, seriously hamper your own BLAARGing efforts in the future when you might need to claim something about Bigfoot's asinine color transformation powers. That's exactly what a gamer should do too.

The thing is, your role in the game isn't one of free wheeling maverick quarterback out to prove to the rest of the stadium what he can really do if given the chance. No, your role is as offensive lineman-attack the opposition as best you can. If your feeble arguments in the beginning didn't convince anyone you're BLAARGing, your actions since surely have.

 

[William Parcher]

It was this forum that debunked the Georgia Freezer Boys first with the correct identification of the costume. The first full debunking of what was a worldwide media hoax.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Again, words mean stuff. Here's the definition of cryptid:

"In cryptozoology and sometimes in cryptobotany, a cryptid (from the Greek κρύπτω, krypto, meaning "hide") is a creature or plant whose existence has been suggested but has not been discovered or documented by the scientific community.[1]"

You claim that people in Kentucky are seeing black panthers. This is the "existence has been suggested" part.

The American Society of Mammalogists - and any other similar group one might ask - denies the existence of melanistic (or otherwise) jaguars, leopards, or jaguarundis in Kentucky (escaped exotics notwithstanding of course), as well as the existence of melanistic pumas anywhere in the world. This is the "not been discovered or documented by the scientific community" part.

So by definition black panthers in Kentucky are cryptids.

Yes, words mean stuff. Melanistic Jaguars are a documented species. Regardless of where they may be located, science agrees they exist. Bigfoot is not a documented species, and so is considered a cryptid. I'm sorry but I can't see where you're going with this. Geography has nothing to do with whether a species is on record or not.

As before, perhaps you mean a new breed of cat that has been as yet unclassified? I don't think we need to go that deep to find the answer. I'll be satisfied with an immigrant or released black jag, although the thought of an unidentified black cat species is exciting, it's extremely unlikely. Chris B.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

HarryHenderson,

How is it someone can know with certainty whether a Bigfoot changes hair color or not? Why would I give a definite answer to something I don't know? I won't because I don't know. Unlike alot of opinions here, I will not claim to know the unknowable.

If you have some evidence to support a color change of their hair, by all means lay it on me. Chris B.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

It was this forum that debunked the Georgia Freezer Boys first with the correct identification of the costume. The first full debunking of what was a worldwide media hoax.

True, and it was Steve Kulls who pulled the rubber foot from the freezer and announced to the World it was indeed a hoax. Chris B.