Merged Bigfoot follies

[Skeptical Greg]

It has to do with taking the word of experts who have actually examined the evidence over that of people who don't actually know what they're talking about.

Like Dr. Robert Benson at Texas A&M University ?

 

[LAL]

Do you even bother to read your own sources?

Of course. The story is about the making of the documentary, which I own on tape and DVD.

There is nothing there that rules out chimps or any other known mammal...

The conclusions on the show are as stated. They compared the calls even to African animals. By comparison to human sounds they were able to determine they're primate.


Do you have anything that actually supports your position? [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you have thirty bucks to spend on the DVD?

https://secure19.activehost.com/legendmeetsscience/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=2

 

[LAL]

Of course. The story is about the making of the documentary, which I own on tape and DVD.


[/B]


The conclusions on the show are as stated. They compared the calls even to African animals. By comparison to human sounds they were able to determine they're primate.

Do you have anything that actually supports your position?

Do you have thirty bucks to spend on the DVD?

https://secure19.activehost.com/legendmeetsscience/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=2 [/B]

 

[LAL]

Like Dr. Robert Benson at Texas A&M University ?

He's not who I had in mind.
And what, if I may ask, is your area of expertise?

 

[The Odd Emperor]

UFO's don't, to my knowlege, leave tracks, hair and scat or feed on hibernating Golden Mantled Ground Squirrels or Willow leaves.

No but they do have a similar emotional impact with many witnesses. They are fleeting, they leave very little physical evidence. Most of the photographs of UFOs are of very low quality and questionable pedigree. People sometimes report a feeling of oppression or of being watched. Animals seem to react very strongly around UFOs. They appear mostly benign. There are a number of parallels including a few “sexual abduction tales.”

Also, I believe there have been one or two Bigfoot/UFO combo events. (No citation, I remember reading about them years ago.)

Check all the zoos for reports of escaped Chimps, did you?
Alleged Sasquatch calls don't match with Chimps, or any other known mammal. They've been analyzed at Texas A&M.

Ah no, do I need to?

I was thinking more of pets escaping. I’ve seen chimps in homes on at least one occasion around the West Florida region. There are at least three major primate collections in the Tampa Bay Area alone, I don’t know how many might be in the university research facilities of Gainesville or Tampa. But that’s all supposition and has little to do with my friend's story or Bigfoot.

re http://www.api4animals.org/381.htm

Of course there is this…
http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/the_skunk_ape.htm

There seems to be an active faker on some of it, but that's not to say he couldn't have been inspired by real events, as Wallace was. It's possible there are subspecies.

Possible; I remember back in the 1970s there was this fellow running around the woods south of Tampa, he was a post graduate student or some such. Claimed to have spent the night up in a tree with a skunk ape. There was a write-up in the Saint Petersburg Times about him. I’ll have to find it someday.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Quote function isn't working for me. Exasperating!

Dr. Esteban Sarmiento, functional anatomist with the Museum of Natural History in New York reached the same conclusion. Neither of these guys found their Phd's in a Cracker Jack box.
What evidence do you have that they are mistaken?

http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp


" The nation's top primate anatomist, Dr. Daris Swindler of Washington State Univeristy examines the Skookum Cast, along with prominent primatologist Dr. Esteban Sarmiento of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and anthropologist Dr. Jeff Meldrum of Idaho State University, give their conclusions about the Skookum cast, and what it points to.
"

Where can I find their conclusions without buying the DVD ?

I notice they also source the conclusions of Dr. Benson...


Are their conclusions about the foot prints, as staggering as those of Dr. Benson, regarding the recordings?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This is a mammal, at least we suspect," he said. "We're still analyzing that."

"There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be," he said. "In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human."


"We have recordings but what the source might be, we don't know," he said. "It is evidence but it might be negative evidence."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Skeptical Greg]

He's not who I had in mind.
And what, if I may ask, is your area of expertise?

I'm not claiming any, or pointing to that of others..


What is yours, besides name dropping?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

From the site wanting $30 of my money...


http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp

There is now scientific proof for the existence of a giant primate species in North America -- a species fitting the descriptions of sasquatches (bigfoots).

Methinks someone has no idea what ' Scientific proof ' really is...


Hint: It has nothing to do with conjecture by any number of sources, with copius capital letters after their names.

One of my favorites..

DNA expert Dr. Craig Newton from BC Research in Canada attempts to extract DNA from hair samples and saliva taken from the Skookum Cast site. He explains the potential and problems with DNA analysis.

Translation: " I didn't find anything conclusive. "

 

[LAL]

No but they do have a similar emotional impact with many witnesses. They are fleeting, they leave very little physical evidence. Most of the photographs of UFOs are of very low quality and questionable pedigree. People sometimes report a feeling of oppression or of being watched. Animals seem to react very strongly around UFOs. They appear mostly benign. There are a number of parallels including a few “sexual abduction tales.”

I recently talked with a woman who's seen things she can't explain in the sky around an AFB near her. She thinks the aliens know she's there. I think she's seeing things she can't explain.

Also, I believe there have been one or two Bigfoot/UFO combo events. (No citation, I remember reading about them years ago.)

Green reported some in one of his books with a wish there were no such reports.

Ah no, do I need to?

In the interests of verification, why not?

I was thinking more of pets escaping. I’ve seen chimps in homes on at least one occasion around the West Florida region. There are at least three major primate collections in the Tampa Bay Area alone, I don’t know how many might be in the university research facilities of Gainesville or Tampa. But that’s all supposition and has little to do with my friend's story or Bigfoot.

re http://www.api4animals.org/381.htm

Do bad he didn't record it. I heard a hair-raising call I couldn't identify once, but I can't rule out elk.

Of course there is this…
http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/the_skunk_ape.htm


Possible; I remember back in the 1970s there was this fellow running around the woods south of Tampa, he was a post graduate student or some such. Claimed to have spent the night up in a tree with a skunk ape. There was a write-up in the Saint Petersburg Times about him. I’ll have to find it someday.

There are quite a few reports from Florida, some Class A.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=fl


If the moderator's here, please remove the superfluous posts of mine that keep showing up. I've tried e-mailing twice about it and have only received a reply from MAILER DAEMON.
Thanks.

 

[LAL]

http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp


" The nation's top primate anatomist, Dr. Daris Swindler of Washington State Univeristy examines the Skookum Cast, along with prominent primatologist Dr. Esteban Sarmiento of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and anthropologist Dr. Jeff Meldrum of Idaho State University, give their conclusions about the Skookum cast, and what it points to.
"

Where can I find their conclusions without buying the DVD ?

I notice they also source the conclusions of Dr. Benson...


Are their conclusions about the foot prints, as staggering as those of Dr. Benson, regarding the recordings?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This is a mammal, at least we suspect," he said. "We're still analyzing that."

"There is a whole range of things that it might possibly be," he said. "In all possibilities, there is the possibility that this could be human."


"We have recordings but what the source might be, we don't know," he said. "It is evidence but it might be negative evidence."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, if you consider Jimmy Chilcutt staking his reputation on it staggering, yes.


This is the best I can do right now. As Green noted, the story never got beyond Denver. I have the link to the Post, but the story is no longer coming up. This is an accurate reprint, however.

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=328


Dr. Benson is a sceptic, BTW, so the fact that he finally did an analysis is pretty staggering. They looked at the possibility of something such as a siren, as well.

 

[Starrman]

Let me know when you have some actual evidence.

I didn't claim to have evidence. I'm trying to think up alternative explanations. Do you think it is impossible that a person made those tracks, or just highly unlikely. Are there any pictures of the area from a broader perspective?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Do you realize dropping names, with quotes such as this:

Nevertheless, Goodall is intrigued.

Is nothing short of laughable..

You sourced achoustic expert Dr. Benson, and now suggest that because he agreed to analyze a recording, it is 'proof' of something other than the fact that he makes a living analyzing recordings...

Hello! He didn't find anything !


Why can't I find out what the conclusions of Dr.'s Swindler & Sarmiento are/ were without buying your DVD?

Surely they didn't fail to publish their earth shattering findings?

 

[LTC8K6]

Staking your reputation has no bearing on whether or not you are correct.

I really find the Skookum Cast hilarious and I can't believe anybody takes it seriously. People who reference it lose credibility with me. It is absolutely ridiculous imo.

As usual with these woo-woo claims, when you really start to look at the evidence, it's nowhere near as convincing as we are led to believe.

 

[LAL]

From the site wanting $30 of my money...


http://www.bfro.net/LMS/LMS.asp

Plus shipping & handling, but only if you want the DVD. It aired on the Discovery Channel originally.
The BFRO would like to be able to fund a couple of full time investigators in the field, but since there are no grants forthcoming they must certainly be faulted for selling things on the website with intent to raise money for further investigation.
So far, it's been people going out on their own time and their own dime.

Methinks someone has no idea what ' Scientific proof ' really is...


Hint: It has nothing to do with conjecture by any number of sources, with copius capital letters after their names.

It has to do with empirical evidence. As yet there is no corpus.
Conclusions drawn by qualified people after examination of the evidence is quite acceptable in most fields.
Oh, wait! Maybe I should stop believing in atoms! And gravity! And the Big Bang!

Translation: " I didn't find anything conclusive. "

Translation: Contamination can't be ruled out.
(That can occur at the manufacturering end.)
Actual tissue is needed.

 

[LAL]

Staking your reputation has no bearing on whether or not you are correct.

I really find the Skookum Cast hilarious and I can't believe anybody takes it seriously. People who reference it lose credibility with me. It is absolutely ridiculous imo.

As usual with these woo-woo claims, when you really start to look at the evidence, it's nowhere near as convincing as we are led to believe.

Chilcutt is a top forensic fingerprint expert. Can you find an opinion that refutes him?
Having never seen the cast and having no credentials in any field related to primatology, as far as I can tell, you think armchair scoffing contributes to the debate?
I can't say you've lost any credibility with me; I didn't see any to begin with.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I actually started reading this sight and it is hillarious..


http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_article.asp?id=328

I mentioned the ' dropping ' of Scientist's names.. Along with Goodall..

GEORGE SCHALLER
"I think a hard-eyed look is absolutely essential," he concludes. ( but doesn't volunteer.. )

ESTEBAN SARMIENTO

"I think a serious scientific inquiry is definitely warranted." ( ... just not by me.. )


RUSSELL MITTERMEIER

"I guess you could say I'm mildly skeptical but guardedly optimistic. Whoever does find it will have the discovery of the century." ( I wish them luck, but I've been heavily funded in other areas ... )

 

[LAL]

Do you realize dropping names, with quotes such as this:

Nevertheless, Goodall is intrigued.

Is nothing short of laughable..

Do you want the link to the interview where she makes her position clear?

You sourced achoustic expert Dr. Benson, and now suggest that because he agreed to analyze a recording, it is 'proof' of something other than the fact that he makes a living analyzing recordings...

Hello! He didn't find anything

He found out what it isn't.
Did you note the analysis was still in progress when the story was written?

Why can't I find out what the conclusions of Dr.'s Swindler & Sarmiento are/ were without buying your DVD?

Maybe you could borrow one. Or request one at your local library.

Surely they didn't fail to publish their earth shattering findings?

I certainly wish they had. SWindler was in poor health at the time of the Willow Creek 2003 Symposium.
Sarmiento may devote some time to it when he's finished with the Bili Ape project.

Do you think you could manage to hold the sarcasm until you learn to spell"acoustic"?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Chilcutt is a top forensic fingerprint expert. Can you find an opinion that refutes him?

Refutes what? " That he believes a cast he examined was not made by a human ? "



Or were you thinking of something else?

 

[LAL]

Do you want the link to the interview where she makes her position clear?


[/B]


He found out what it isn't.
Did you note the analysis was still in progress when the story was written?


[/B]

Maybe you could borrow one. Or request one at your local library.



I certainly wish they had. Swindler was in poor health at the time of the Willow Creek 2003 Symposium.
Sarmiento may devote some time to it when he's finished with the Bili Ape project.

Do you think you could manage to hold the sarcasm until you learn to spell"acoustic"? [/B]

 

[LAL]

Refutes what? " That he believes a cast he examined was not made by a human ? "



Or were you thinking of something else?

Meldrum's collection is open for examination by serious investigators. Do you have an opinion by another forensic fingerprint expert refuting Chilcutt's findings? Flawss in his methodology? Anything? His opinion made the National Geographic. It's not some well-kept trade secret. Has anyone come forward with an examination that proves his conclusions are in error?