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Bigfoot DNA
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Drewbot
Philosopher
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Perhaps someone needs to hire a magician.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/opinion-randi-magic-scientists/
James Randi opinion piece.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/opinion-randi-magic-scientists/
James Randi opinion piece.
mikeyx
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old school and outdated, sfb is dead, it is now the Hovey-Willard connection, the ABS and the crap photo...BFD has gone on largely silent running, the aibr has done nothing.......... biut be name out there
And the beat goes on .... science takes time:
http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2012/03/dr-melba-ketchum-delays-and-paper.html#moretop
Again, I can only hope that the Ketchum Hokum employed a technical editor, because there are some long run-on sentences in her response.
On a completely other note, it appears Richard Stubstad is dealing with a serious health issue. Though it is fun to poke at each of the various characters in Bigfootery, I don't wish anyone ill will. My thoughts go out to Richard and his family.
http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2012/03/dr-melba-ketchum-delays-and-paper.html#moretop
Again, I can only hope that the Ketchum Hokum employed a technical editor, because there are some long run-on sentences in her response.
On a completely other note, it appears Richard Stubstad is dealing with a serious health issue. Though it is fun to poke at each of the various characters in Bigfootery, I don't wish anyone ill will. My thoughts go out to Richard and his family.
Java Bob tells all. Well, maybe not all. But enough to substantiate the idea that Java Bob, Stubstad and Ketchum were the proverbial blind leading the blind, with the additional issues of personalities and lawyers. Java Bob's story can be compared/combined with the extensive stuff written by Stubstad, (whose health problems recall those of Roger Patterson), to show that they really didn't have what Ketchum said/thought they had, way back in the fall of 2010. That is, they greatly misinterpreted the fact that a DNA sequence wasn't in GenBank. Ketchum seems to have been overconfident of the data and her own abilities, and all-too-willing to rid herself of those whose ideas formed the basis of the present "ThePaper."
The Bigfoot/human DNA story will never end. 'Footers will stimulate the economy and their imaginations by chasing down, at great expense, every variation that appears in human DNA, hoping, each time, that they have found the "holy grail" single nucleotide polymorphism that made some proto-human woman give birth to TheHairyHulk 300,000 years ago. Entrepreneurial DNA labs will be only too happy to accommodate them, as long as the bucks keep flowing, and will continue to insist, (as do the Patterson Gimlin film experts), that "there's something there, if we just had more time/money/data/"..."next year"..."search the archives,"..... blah blah blah. It's a familiar tale. Thankfully, the PGF will (god willing) finally be killed in the finite future, with a couple of stakes through its cellulose acetate heart. But Bigfoot/human DNA will never die.
The Bigfoot/human DNA story will never end. 'Footers will stimulate the economy and their imaginations by chasing down, at great expense, every variation that appears in human DNA, hoping, each time, that they have found the "holy grail" single nucleotide polymorphism that made some proto-human woman give birth to TheHairyHulk 300,000 years ago. Entrepreneurial DNA labs will be only too happy to accommodate them, as long as the bucks keep flowing, and will continue to insist, (as do the Patterson Gimlin film experts), that "there's something there, if we just had more time/money/data/"..."next year"..."search the archives,"..... blah blah blah. It's a familiar tale. Thankfully, the PGF will (god willing) finally be killed in the finite future, with a couple of stakes through its cellulose acetate heart. But Bigfoot/human DNA will never die.
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So, you have two samples, supposedly from two geographically separated regions, that indicate a shared mitochondrial eve of Cro-Magnon and a haplotype indicating European descent. Yet, they easily pass it off as being impossible for both samples to be from the same source, because they came from two different groups of people ? I think the "magician" would tell you the deception is that the two samples are from the same individual, but submitted from two different locations to appear geographically different. That is the slight of hand being employed. Also, Stubstad is correct in the fact the Ketchum Hokum's credentials hardly qualify her as an expert in the field. You have to wonder why the geneticist was unilaterally dismissed from the team. I can imagine that anyone that does not subscribe to the pretermined outcome of the study is unilaterally dismissed. Stubstad and Java Bob being dismissed for questioning the Ketchum Hokum not verifying the sequencing against the GenBank perhaps? All very interesting stuff. Of the group, though I don't subscribe to Stubstad's belief in Squatch, he does come across as the most credible in regards to the DNA study and associated story.
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AlaskaBushPilot
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Bizarre.
JavaBob and the Interviewer talk about the dire need for lawyers when a scientific discovery is underway, and pretend that forming the limited liability corporation in Texas called "Science Alive" is what scientists do to "protect themselves". Hahahahaha!!
Except that the "protection" involved soliciting television program producers and other venues to make cash off the empty trunk. How hilarious that he poses it as if these television programs come after you like some kind of aggressive attacker and you need to know how to defend yourself from them.
This interviewer shows pages from a paper, with zero explanation. If it is Ketchum's paper, then how did he get it? If it isn't then WTF is he doing showing it, but in a way that makes it impossible to see what is actually written? It is peddled in the clip as bolstering the idea about these "anomalies" that an engineer, not a genetecist, supposedly found in their DNA samples.
The host bubbles over about how an engineer - wow, they are qualified to look at charts! Just as qualified as anyone else. Except maybe a genetecist, Dear Damian?
About the only believable thing out of JavaBob is that after Ketchum submitted her paper it was returned with the blunt response that it was not a scientific paper. Duh.
JavaBob and the Interviewer talk about the dire need for lawyers when a scientific discovery is underway, and pretend that forming the limited liability corporation in Texas called "Science Alive" is what scientists do to "protect themselves". Hahahahaha!!
Except that the "protection" involved soliciting television program producers and other venues to make cash off the empty trunk. How hilarious that he poses it as if these television programs come after you like some kind of aggressive attacker and you need to know how to defend yourself from them.
This interviewer shows pages from a paper, with zero explanation. If it is Ketchum's paper, then how did he get it? If it isn't then WTF is he doing showing it, but in a way that makes it impossible to see what is actually written? It is peddled in the clip as bolstering the idea about these "anomalies" that an engineer, not a genetecist, supposedly found in their DNA samples.
The host bubbles over about how an engineer - wow, they are qualified to look at charts! Just as qualified as anyone else. Except maybe a genetecist, Dear Damian?
About the only believable thing out of JavaBob is that after Ketchum submitted her paper it was returned with the blunt response that it was not a scientific paper. Duh.
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River
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Hi Footers.
I'm Snoop. I'm here to put a new spin on things. Y'all kick back, an chill. Aight, lets get this bioatch jumpin!
Come on y'all dance with me! Yee.
I really don't see much difference in my depiction and reality with the bigfoot arena these days. Toss out whatever random spin you feel like marketing, and bank on it as much as you can before people figure it out x infinity = the equation. I'm curious how many of these DNA tests she has performed and how much she charged per test. (lets not forget, shes not doing this for free - there is a financier) Who wants take bets on it being a pretty good racket? The footers just don't get it yet. Thats only the hype, then you have the DVD or book sales involved with the hype.
I'm Snoop. I'm here to put a new spin on things. Y'all kick back, an chill. Aight, lets get this bioatch jumpin!
Come on y'all dance with me! Yee.
I really don't see much difference in my depiction and reality with the bigfoot arena these days. Toss out whatever random spin you feel like marketing, and bank on it as much as you can before people figure it out x infinity = the equation. I'm curious how many of these DNA tests she has performed and how much she charged per test. (lets not forget, shes not doing this for free - there is a financier) Who wants take bets on it being a pretty good racket? The footers just don't get it yet. Thats only the hype, then you have the DVD or book sales involved with the hype.
Engineers could look at the numbers and spot a trend or make a statistical comparison, just as a mathematician or statistician could do the same calculation. The problem I have is that engineers are not qualified to determine if the data they are reviewing was aquired in the proper fashion, and truly represents the sample studied. Is the perceived "marker" background noise, contamination, or truly representative of the "species?" That can only be answered by a geneticist. They can gush all they want about an engineer looking at numbers, but as we say "garbage in = garbage out". The numbers are only as good as the technique used to determine the numbers.
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AlaskaBushPilot
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Well, they refuse to let anyone actually see any numbers for themselves. Like we're all a bunch of morons and need an engineer to look at anything for us? This is just soooo wonderfully marvelous. Almost thrilling entertainment. Anything except show the paper.
That's how Eienstein introduced his Theory of General Relativity. He had an accountant look at his secret paper and because this accountant looks at a lot of numbers, he formed a limited liability corporation with Eienstein and went to Hollywood to meet with Alfred Hitchcock to produce a movie about a paper that was never published.
That's what's so revoltingly hilarious about pretending to show this paper during the interview. What is the point of a long-distance shot at an alleged genetics paper written by a veterinarian? Because the entire point of everyone playing this game is to make loud noises and big arm-waving about what is inside the empty chest. It has to be really awful stuff.
Someone used a line from I think Monty Python to describe it. Things that go "ping". The bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Oh look, the paper has charts. *gasp*
So yeah, River that's the spirit! Jack Nicholson crazy. You know, there's no harm in being off your rocker so long as nobody is hurt by it. The entertainment value here is still getting better. What next?
That's how Eienstein introduced his Theory of General Relativity. He had an accountant look at his secret paper and because this accountant looks at a lot of numbers, he formed a limited liability corporation with Eienstein and went to Hollywood to meet with Alfred Hitchcock to produce a movie about a paper that was never published.
That's what's so revoltingly hilarious about pretending to show this paper during the interview. What is the point of a long-distance shot at an alleged genetics paper written by a veterinarian? Because the entire point of everyone playing this game is to make loud noises and big arm-waving about what is inside the empty chest. It has to be really awful stuff.
Someone used a line from I think Monty Python to describe it. Things that go "ping". The bridge of the Starship Enterprise. Oh look, the paper has charts. *gasp*
So yeah, River that's the spirit! Jack Nicholson crazy. You know, there's no harm in being off your rocker so long as nobody is hurt by it. The entertainment value here is still getting better. What next?
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All I have is Alice's Restaurant running through my head:
"they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was to be used as evidence "
Hopefully thePaper has at least 27 eight-by-ten photographs with circles and arrows ... I am sure that impresses editors of prestigious journals and peer reviewers. Baffle them with BS ... surely no one will dig deeper.
"they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each
one was to be used as evidence "
Hopefully thePaper has at least 27 eight-by-ten photographs with circles and arrows ... I am sure that impresses editors of prestigious journals and peer reviewers. Baffle them with BS ... surely no one will dig deeper.
HarryHenderson
Graduate Poster
"Yer killin me Larry!"AttorneyTom
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River
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Those are things I understand! That is after all what it's all about. If you can take people out on a camping trip and show them "bigfoot" that's entertainment. That's what people pay for, and that's why there are any talks of a paper. Of course there is no authentic sasquatch DNA! (though I'm quite sure Ketchum would have you believe otherwise, well maybe not "you")
This is about as authentic as any bigfoot related results... Lets enhance it... and see what we can find Dr Foot...
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AttorneyTom
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That is huge tailer ! Can you stop that ?
AlaskaBushPilot
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My God, I just read Substads stuff that parnassus linked to. Unbelievable!
The provenance is Tom Biscardi? A set of bigfoot tracks was found near sample 1 - oh that's bulletproof. Sample 2 looks like it is ketchup smeared on a plate. The complete flummery about the mitochondrial eve, the ice ages - not even a pretense of trying to link one section to the next.
I missed this when you guys talked about it before, but I remember vaguely the ketchup on the plate.
The engineer they are trying to say is a statistician is not. So that is where these "97% likely" assertions are being poofed out of thin air.
The provenance is Tom Biscardi? A set of bigfoot tracks was found near sample 1 - oh that's bulletproof. Sample 2 looks like it is ketchup smeared on a plate. The complete flummery about the mitochondrial eve, the ice ages - not even a pretense of trying to link one section to the next.
I missed this when you guys talked about it before, but I remember vaguely the ketchup on the plate.
The engineer they are trying to say is a statistician is not. So that is where these "97% likely" assertions are being poofed out of thin air.
Beyond the silliness of the provenance of the samples, I am more drawn to the people in the story. My take-away:
- The Ketchum Hokum kicking the geneticist off the team
- The Ketchum Hokum lawyering up
- Tom Biscardi's involvement
- The Ketchum Hokum's unwillingness to check the GenBank
- The supposed NDA that has expired
- The Ketchum Hokum forming a LLC
- The statistics don't even make a case for a new species
None of this strikes me as something that happens when real scientific studies are undertaken. No, this happens over someone trying to protect their piece of the pie. At first, I may have believed the Ketchum Hokum to be an unwitting stooge in the deception, but the more you read, the more you believe she knows full well the trunk is empty. So, you couple the LLC with the copyright filing and the double secret Paper, and ABP is dead on, it's about the Monkey in the Trunk.
- The Ketchum Hokum kicking the geneticist off the team
- The Ketchum Hokum lawyering up
- Tom Biscardi's involvement
- The Ketchum Hokum's unwillingness to check the GenBank
- The supposed NDA that has expired
- The Ketchum Hokum forming a LLC
- The statistics don't even make a case for a new species
None of this strikes me as something that happens when real scientific studies are undertaken. No, this happens over someone trying to protect their piece of the pie. At first, I may have believed the Ketchum Hokum to be an unwitting stooge in the deception, but the more you read, the more you believe she knows full well the trunk is empty. So, you couple the LLC with the copyright filing and the double secret Paper, and ABP is dead on, it's about the Monkey in the Trunk.
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I could be mistaken, but I don't think that Ketchum was ever lead/corresponding author on a scientific paper, or even second, or senior. So I doubt she really knew much about the process of putting a study together, statistical techniques, writing a paper, dealing with journals, etc, etc.
And I kind of doubt that her 5 years of undergrad/vet at Texas A and M, 30 years ago, stands her in very good stead in the kinds of analysis needed to bring home the bacon with this jimcrackery.
She's in the deep end of the pool with a couple of lead weights on her feet, and she fired the lifeguard. Of course, she can call on the surprisingly numerous DNA experts who have volunteered their opinions in the Ketchum thread at the BFF. [rolls eyes].
And I kind of doubt that her 5 years of undergrad/vet at Texas A and M, 30 years ago, stands her in very good stead in the kinds of analysis needed to bring home the bacon with this jimcrackery.
She's in the deep end of the pool with a couple of lead weights on her feet, and she fired the lifeguard. Of course, she can call on the surprisingly numerous DNA experts who have volunteered their opinions in the Ketchum thread at the BFF. [rolls eyes].
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AlaskaBushPilot
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You are only chosen as a referee if you have published something already in the area. Editors of journals do not send papers to an unknown, unpublished veterinarian to referee. They send them to professors at Universities that publish regularly as a part of their employment.
If she actually had published anything, both her and the accolytes would be posting that all over her facebook page, the stated purpose of which is to disseminate her research.
So we can add to the list of lies the assertion she has been a referee for any scholarly journal. The purpose of that lie was to explain away why nothing has been published. She was referee on a paper that was so bad it was sent back four times.
I marvel at what people swallow. She is saying that the worse the paper is, the longer it is going to take to publish it, so that's why we need to have some confidence here in how good the paper is because wow, look how long it is taking to publish it.
If she actually had published anything, both her and the accolytes would be posting that all over her facebook page, the stated purpose of which is to disseminate her research.
So we can add to the list of lies the assertion she has been a referee for any scholarly journal. The purpose of that lie was to explain away why nothing has been published. She was referee on a paper that was so bad it was sent back four times.
I marvel at what people swallow. She is saying that the worse the paper is, the longer it is going to take to publish it, so that's why we need to have some confidence here in how good the paper is because wow, look how long it is taking to publish it.
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