Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[William Parcher]

but now you're 90% (?) sure it was a Bigfoot?

I would have said 10 but then the skeptic world would have chased me out of here with torches and pitch forks.

John, I'm surprised that you didn't choose 10. You've been talking all this time with convicted certainty. You only chose 9 because skeptics would "chase you out"?

I won't chase you at all if you pick 10. But, try something else... Choose a percentage from 0-100% and don't be afraid. (BTW, the rating you did forces you to choose 70%, 80%, 90%, etc. - which may not be the best way to express your certainty.... i.e. you can't choose 99% that way)

 

[makaya325]

John, I'm surprised that you didn't choose 10. You've been talking all this time with convicted certainty. You only chose 9 because skeptics would "chase you out"?

I won't chase you at all if you pick 10. But, try something else... Choose a percentage from 0-100% and don't be afraid. (BTW, the rating you did forces you to choose 70%, 80%, 90%, etc. - which may not be the best way to express your certainty.... i.e. you can't choose 99% that way)

I agree with WP. John, It is ok to post your belief percentage of your sighting. Remember: No one here is ridiculing you, we are only suggesting alternative, and IMO, More conceviable, explanations than a giant ape that towers over bears living undetected in this ever growing continent.

 

[WGBH]

I said 9 because I am very sure about what I saw. I would have said 10 but then the skeptic world would have chased me out of here with torches and pitch forks.

You guys really have no sense of humor do you?

No one is ever perfect and anything is possible. But I will still say 90%.

 

[Blackdog]

As I have stated here before I was finally banned because of who I associate with in the field.
I have documentation to prove it. But who cares? It's done and I hate that cess pool anyway.

That's a bunch of crap.
Who you associate with in the field? Who's that, Melissa? She isn't banned on the BFF.

Yeah I'd like to see the proof. Right now I think you're making it up and if you'll make that up you'll make up anything.

 

[DogB]

That's a bunch of crap.
Who you associate with in the field? Who's that, Melissa? She isn't banned on the BFF.

Yeah I'd like to see the proof. Right now I think you're making it up and if you'll make that up you'll make up anything.

This is this relevant how?

I’m kinda enjoying this thread – you want to get messy with John about his behaviour on BFF take it elsewhere why don’t you.

 

[Blackdog]

Yep you're right boss. Truth doesn't matter here if it concerns another forum.

I suggest you go to this thread and tell the posters there there very same thing.

Sorry I spoiled your fun.

 

[rockinkt]

This is this relevant how?

I’m kinda enjoying this thread – you want to get messy with John about his behaviour on BFF take it elsewhere why don’t you.

Why don't you take a second or two to actually think about what Blackdog wrote and respond to that instead of showing just how inept you are at reading and comprehending?

BD makes a very valid point. If a person is shown to have lied or changed the facts to color themselves more favorably regarding one situation - that person's credibility becomes an issue.
Since the credibility of John is one of the key factors in play here - it is very important to establish just how credible he is.

 

[WGBH]

That's a bunch of crap.
Who you associate with in the field? Who's that, Melissa? She isn't banned on the BFF.

Yeah I'd like to see the proof. Right now I think you're making it up and if you'll make that up you'll make up anything.

I could care less what you want to see.

 

[WGBH]

Why don't you take a second or two to actually think about what Blackdog wrote and respond to that instead of showing just how inept you are at reading and comprehending?

BD makes a very valid point. If a person is shown to have lied or changed the facts to color themselves more favorably regarding one situation - that person's credibility becomes an issue.
Since the credibility of John is one of the key factors in play here - it is very important to establish just how credible he is.

I have not lied.

 

[DogB]

Why don't you take a second or two to actually think about what Blackdog wrote and respond to that instead of showing just how inept you are at reading and comprehending?

I see. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re perhaps not greatly familiar with the meaning of the word ‘inept’.

BD makes a very valid point.

Not here and now he doesn’t

If a person is shown to have lied or changed the facts to color themselves more favorably regarding one situation - that person's credibility becomes an issue.

Very true…and completely irrelevant. Is John seeking our approval? Did he request our belief? He answered a question posed in the OP and since has been kind enough to answer subsequent questions. If the posters here chose to disbelieve his story then they wouldn’t have responded in the manner they did.

Since the credibility of John is one of the key factors in play here - it is very important to establish just how credible he is.

Perhaps you don’t understand. I don’t give a monkeys why John was banned from BFF. In fact it only increases his credibility with me.

Sure, John could be lying though his teeth. It’s the internet, that stuff happens. Nothing we can do about it if he is. We either take him at face value or go do something else. I choose to remain, feel free to go away if you feel otherwise.

In this case the thread has become (until recently) a quite interesting discussion on alternative theories on what John may have experienced. The most significant development IMHO is John’s fairly stubborn refusal to even entertain the notion of some sort of dream or hallucinatory event. It gives me an insight into a mindset different to my own.

That’s interesting to me.

Your (and Blackdog’s) petty little spat with John, isn’t.

[size=-2]Oh and BTW, I've derailed the thread far too much already. I will not reply to further posts debating this matter.[/size]

 

[SweatyYeti]

Why don't you take a second or two to actually think about what Blackdog wrote and respond to that instead of showing just how inept you are at reading and comprehending?

BD makes a very valid point.

If a person is shown to have lied or changed the facts to color themselves more favorably regarding one situation - that person's credibility becomes an issue.
Since the credibility of John is one of the key factors in play here - it is very important to establish just how credible he is.

Everybody lies, at some point in their lives. (That's true...believe me! )

Does that disqualify everybody on the planet, from ever being able to see a Bigfoot??

 

[SweatyYeti]

DogB wrote:

Sure, John could be lying though his teeth.

In the vast majority of cases....'lies' are committed for specific reasons.

There are motivating factors behind lies, such as: protecting oneself from blame, or embarrassment....or, sometimes for financial gain....and sometimes, people lie to keep from hurting someone else's feelings.

It's pretty rare that people will lie to, and decieve others, simply for 'recreation'...for the fun of it. And even in cases where people do lie, just 'for the heck of it', or, in performing a practical joke on somebody....how often does that person continue the lie, or deception, for weeks, months, or years.....without any strong motivating factor (like the ones listed above) behind the lie???


How many people engage in 'casual, recreational lies', decieving their friends and their family, for years on end?


Sorry, but...."Discovering that someone has lied" previously in their lifetime....does not mean that it's likely that that person is living a lie about seeing Bigfoot.

It’s the internet, that stuff happens. Nothing we can do about it if he is. We either take him at face value or go do something else. I choose to remain, feel free to go away if you feel otherwise.

John's testimony about what he saw goes way beyond 'just posting something on the internet'.

 

[kitakaze]

Here is how I got involved in Bogfooting.In 06 I saw the program Sasquatch "Legend meets Science" on TV. Because of my sighting it started to interest me. I googled Bigfoot and Started reading the BFF and other information on Bigfoot like Bobbie Short's web page.

Everything was fine until I made the mistake of copying and pasting my BFRO sighting report on the forum. I was attacked and ridiculed, and eventually banned from the BFF. I think most of it was due to the BFRO hatred on the BFF.

I became heavily involved in listening and chatting on all the blog talk Bigfoot radio shows. I still am involved and I substitute host on many of the shows.

The first person I told personally via the internet about my sighting was Mike Killen who is a board member of NESRA and the host of the blog talk radio show The Bigfoot Quest. We chatted online about my encounter. He was the person who suggested I contact Billy Willard. Other then the BFRO researcher, he was the first person I talked to about my encounter in 25 years.

The second person I told via phone intrerview was your friend Melissa Hovey. I think this was shortly before she interviewed me on her radio show. If you listen to that show you can hear how nervous I was.

The first people I talked to about it to face to face were Billy Willard and Tom L. They are the co-directors of my group Sasquatch Watch of VA. This occured on the car ride to the 2008 Ohio Conference. This was in May 2008 and was the first time I returned to the woods in 26 years.

Thank you for the explanation, John. Do you have a working link for the radio show where you discuss your encounter? I would like to listen to it and the only link I could find is this broken one:

http://southeastsasquatchassociation.blogspot.com/2008/12/sasquatch-triangle-tonight.html

So the timeline is (please fill in the question marks if you can)....

October-ish '82 - encounter

August '98 - BFRO report submission

? '06 - LMS on TV, you get interested, join BFF, share BFRO report, goes badly, get tossed.

? '06 - you tell Mike Killen online about the encounter, he hooks you up with Billy Willard.

June '07 - you join SFB, eventually become mod, and this year become admin.

December '07 - you tell Melissa about encounter on the phone and do interview on her net radio show.

May '08 - You tell Billy Willard and Tom L (L?) in the car on the way to Ohio Bigfoot Conference about the encounter. After this you go into the woods for the first time in 26 years with Billy walking you through it.

Here's the '09 Ohio Bigfoot Conference (Don Keating on the picnic table, you at 1:36, 3:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMc_hEFBwOI

Here's the thing and you might not like it but I like you so I'm going to give it to you straight. You are in a sub-culture of people that are encouraging each other to think there are giant bestial apemen wandering around place like Salt Fork State Park. Who are the guys talking about the encounter in the second half of the video? The guy's talking about a sighting. Dude, is that the May ABS expedition they're talking about?

John, these guys are a sub-culture built in the predication of the concept of a zoological mystery. It involves belief systems and these people do not always behave rationally or think half as critically as they claim. If you lift yourself out of that culture and look at it objectively you can see some Scientology-like elements at play. Remember when Melissa flipped out over HarryH and I discussing Freeman's admitted hoaxing and why people would believe him in the Freeman cast collection thread? She literally told me straight-faced that we couldn't discuss whether we thought they were real. Woooooow, man. John, she had me tossed off her forum for nothing other than civil and informed skepticism. You abstained from that because you had the wits to know that it was just a ridiculous proposition. Now look at Don Keating up on the picnic table in that video with all the Bigfoot enthusiasts gathered around him. Do you not see the sociology of what is happening there? Think like a sociologist would. Bigfootery is really about people, John, and has very little to do with any real animal.

I'm going to try two angles. The first one is just a thought experiement and doesn't need to reflect my actual thinking. Let me just put on my poseur therapist hat here...

John, you didn't see a 9 x 6 monster ape in the Great Dismal Swamp because 9 x 6 montser apes do not exist. There is no Bigfoot and it is impossible that you saw a real Bigfoot (Sweaty should enjoy quoting that out of context). Such a species of creature would be the largest species of mammal living in North America and such a species does not live and breed all across the continent without being known and studied by science. What are real are vivid dreams, sleep-related hallucinations, distorted memories, and trauma-related psychological constructs (ie fantasy). You need help. You do not need help from people like Melissa Hovey or SweatyYeti who will encourage you to think you really did see a 9 x 6 monster ape in the woods. It causes significant harm to your lifestyle and interferes with your ability to be a free and happy human. There are trained professionals where you live in Virginia who help people with things like this and they can help you.

OK.

Let's try the other way. Now I need my devoted Bigfoot enthusiast hat (it's a big fedora)...

John, you saw a Bigfoot. Bigfoot is real. It wasn't a bear or a hallucination, it was simply an elusive and intelligent ape that remains uncatatlogued by science. That is because science doesn't take it seriously when people go out in the woods and see this thing. OK, let's go find this thing. Let's just do it. Where did you see this thing? Great Dismal Swamp? OK, let's go talk to the people who know what's up there...

Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge


RESEARCH OF THE GREAT DISMAL SWAMP

Don't say anything about Bigfoot and just go talk to those people about the animals there. Find out what they know. Ask them about the biggest animals there and what can live there. If it comes down to it, tell them you are sure you saw an orangutan or some type of big ape. If they say "Bigfoot?", you say "Big what? Oooohhh... heh heh... You mean like Andre the giant? No, no. I saw an ape that looked like an orangutan. Could a really big orangutan live there?"

See, John, it's impossible that the people who work in and study that environment missed the giant monster apes - the ones that have no problem coming within 30 feet of people with 12 gauge shotguns. That is where you are going to get your best answers about what you saw there. Please call or email them and let me know when you have.

Those are just two ways I think people can approach your experience about getting the definitive answers that you want so much.

In the mean, here is the thread where you discussed you sighting at the BFF:

Dismal Swamp

There wasn't any meltdowns in that thread, at least. That was where you first came across Billy Willard:

Bwillard,

You go out looking for them? Here in Virginia? I would be too scared, I almost crapped my pants when I saw one.
Those things look like they could snap me in half!

Be carefull!

John

 

[WGBH]

Perhaps you don’t understand. I don’t give a monkeys why John was banned from BFF. In fact it only increases his credibility with me.

Your (and Blackdog’s) petty little spat with John, isn’t.

And you should not care why I was banned. I don't care why Black Dog was banned. I am sure it was as unjustified as mine was.

I am not sure why he feels the need to bring old fights here. I am just not interested. It is just so tired and not worth it.

 

[WGBH]

Thank you for the explanation, John. Do you have a working link for the radio show where you discuss your encounter? I would like to listen to it and the only link I could find is this broken one:

http://southeastsasquatchassociation.blogspot.com/2008/12/sasquatch-triangle-tonight.html

So the timeline is (please fill in the question marks if you can)....

October-ish '82 - encounter

August '98 - BFRO report submission

? '06 - LMS on TV, you get interested, join BFF, share BFRO report, goes badly, get tossed.

? '06 - you tell Mike Killen online about the encounter, he hooks you up with Billy Willard.

June '07 - you join SFB, eventually become mod, and this year become admin.

December '07 - you tell Melissa about encounter on the phone and do interview on her net radio show.

May '08 - You tell Billy Willard and Tom L (L?) in the car on the way to Ohio Bigfoot Conference about the encounter. After this you go into the woods for the first time in 26 years with Billy walking you through it.

Here's the '09 Ohio Bigfoot Conference (Don Keating on the picnic table, you at 1:36, 3:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMc_hEFBwOI

Here's the thing and you might not like it but I like you so I'm going to give it to you straight. You are in a sub-culture of people that are encouraging each other to think there are giant bestial apemen wandering around place like Salt Fork State Park. Who are the guys talking about the encounter in the second half of the video? The guy's talking about a sighting. Dude, is that the May ABS expedition they're talking about?

John, these guys are a sub-culture built in the predication of the concept of a zoological mystery. It involves belief systems and these people do not always behave rationally or think half as critically as they claim. If you lift yourself out of that culture and look at it objectively you can see some Scientology-like elements at play. Remember when Melissa flipped out over HarryH and I discussing Freeman's admitted hoaxing and why people would believe him in the Freeman cast collection thread? She literally told me straight-faced that we couldn't discuss whether we thought they were real. Woooooow, man. John, she had me tossed off her forum for nothing other than civil and informed skepticism. You abstained from that because you had the wits to know that it was just a ridiculous proposition. Now look at Don Keating up on the picnic table in that video with all the Bigfoot enthusiasts gathered around him. Do you not see the sociology of what is happening there? Think like a sociologist would. Bigfootery is really about people, John, and has very little to do with any real animal.

I'm going to try two angles. The first one is just a thought experiement and doesn't need to reflect my actual thinking. Let me just put on my poseur therapist hat here...

John, you didn't see a 9 x 6 monster ape in the Great Dismal Swamp because 9 x 6 montser apes do not exist. There is no Bigfoot and it is impossible that you saw a real Bigfoot (Sweaty should enjoy quoting that out of context). Such a species of creature would be the largest species of mammal living in North America and such a species does not live and breed all across the continent without being known and studied by science. What are real are vivid dreams, sleep-related hallucinations, distorted memories, and trauma-related psychological constructs (ie fantasy). You need help. You do not need help from people like Melissa Hovey or SweatyYeti who will encourage you to think you really did see a 9 x 6 monster ape in the woods. It causes significant harm to your lifestyle and interferes with your ability to be a free and happy human. There are trained professionals where you live in Virginia who help people with things like this and they can help you.

OK.

Let's try the other way. Now I need my devoted Bigfoot enthusiast hat (it's a big fedora)...

John, you saw a Bigfoot. Bigfoot is real. It wasn't a bear or a hallucination, it was simply an elusive and intelligent ape that remains uncatatlogued by science. That is because science doesn't take it seriously when people go out in the woods and see this thing. OK, let's go find this thing. Let's just do it. Where did you see this thing? Great Dismal Swamp? OK, let's go talk to the people who know what's up there...

Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge


RESEARCH OF THE GREAT DISMAL SWAMP

Don't say anything about Bigfoot and just go talk to those people about the animals there. Find out what they know. Ask them about the biggest animals there and what can live there. If it comes down to it, tell them you are sure you saw an orangutan or some type of big ape. If they say "Bigfoot?", you say "Big what? Oooohhh... heh heh... You mean like Andre the giant? No, no. I saw an ape that looked like an orangutan. Could a really big orangutan live there?"

Very good approach and one that I will use. I also think it's a good idea to talk to the park personnel if possible.

Those are just two ways I think people can approach your experience about getting the definitive answers that you want so much.

People are welcome to approach it or think what they want about it. All I ask is that they remember I am human and the insults do hurt.

in the mean, here is the thread where you discussed you sighting at the BFF:

Dismal Swamp

There wasn't any meltdowns in that thread, at least. That was where you first came across Billy Willard:

That is not a thread where there was a meltdown and believe me there were many and not always about my sighting. Most of it was juvenile Bigfoot tribal warfare and yes I was just as guilty as anyone else involved in that mess.

Wow,THANK YOU for finding that Kit. That must have been one of the first times I talked to Billy. I wish I was able to see that again. I can access it from my work computer probably.

I was on two shows that are no longer on the air. I am not sure If I can still find archives for those shows, but I am looking now. I was on Sasquatch Experience which was where Melissa interviewed me and I was on the Squatchdetective show twice. Billy used to co-host that show and he asked me on there. We all know what happened to Steve Kulls regarding the GA hoax. Let's not even go there please.

The two men sharing that encounter in that you tube video are my close friend Eric Altman the Director of the PBS and Mike Feltner. They only saw a shadow figure and Eric does not make claims that it was a Bigfoot. Just that is was interesting.

Kit, Yes there are many people I have been in the field with who see Bigfoot behind every tree or hear one with every twig snap. Melissa is not one of them. She is skeptical. I do not get caught up in that hoopla. It has gotten pretty nuts sometimes, especially the time someone was trying to hoax me. Like I have told you before, I am not interested in anything but the animal. Forget the screams, the plaster casts, the stick structures, the blurry pictures, forget all of it. It can be interesting, but none of it is worth anything as proof.

I have my close circle of friends who are grounded and try to do proper research. We are not encouraging each other we saw anything.

 

[atpeace]

Here's the '09 Ohio Bigfoot Conference (Don Keating on the picnic table, you at 1:36, 3:19):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMc_hEFBwOI

Here's the thing and you might not like it but I like you so I'm going to give it to you straight. You are in a sub-culture of people that are encouraging each other to think there are giant bestial apemen wandering around place like Salt Fork State Park.

I feel sorry for the kids. If you chose to jerk around a bunch of adult strangers that's bad enough- But kids? Worse yet, your own kids?

ap

 

[kitakaze]

That's a bunch of crap.
Who you associate with in the field? Who's that, Melissa? She isn't banned on the BFF.

Yeah I'd like to see the proof. Right now I think you're making it up and if you'll make that up you'll make up anything.

I could care less what you want to see.

Why don't you take a second or two to actually think about what Blackdog wrote and respond to that instead of showing just how inept you are at reading and comprehending?

BD makes a very valid point. If a person is shown to have lied or changed the facts to color themselves more favorably regarding one situation - that person's credibility becomes an issue.
Since the credibility of John is one of the key factors in play here - it is very important to establish just how credible he is.

I have not lied.

John, they have reason to think that you may have made up your encounter. BD doubts that you were banned simply for being friends with Melissa. I don't think that's why you were banned. As BD said, she's not banned there. I've been reading the BFF long before I ever joined the JREF. They don't just chuck people out for such petty, nonsensical reasons like that. Unfortunately, it seems that throwing people out for ridiculous made-up reasons is happening at the board you are an administrator of.

It's not an unfair or irrational thing for some people to think you made up your story. People make up stories to elevate their status in a group and gain acceptance all the time. I've seen it with religious, UFO, ghost, and crypto groups many times. Bullet Maker or Paul Freeman, anyone? I'm not getting that vibe from what I've seen so far with you. The facts as I have seen them indicate that you really believe that you saw a Bigfoot. I think there is a way to definitively answer what you saw that doesn't involve poking every bush or turning every leaf.

Wait a minute... what did I just say?

 

[WGBH]

John, they have reason to think that you may have made up your encounter. BD doubts that you were banned simply for being friends with Melissa. I don't think that's why you were banned. As BD said, she's not banned there. I've been reading the BFF long before I ever joined the JREF. They don't just chuck people out for such petty, nonsensical reasons like that. Unfortunately, it seems that throwing people out for ridiculous made-up reasons is happening at the board you are an administrator of.

They do have every right to think what they want about my encounter. But this has NOTHING to do with my encounter.

OK, I have said I do not want to discuss or re-hash the old BFF crap. But you guys just will not leave it alone will you?

First of all I said, I was banned because of the people I associate with in the field. Who the heck said it was Melissa Hovey? BD did. I have only been in the field with Melissa Hovey ONCE and that was in April. This is just people wanting to pounce on me for being her friend. I had nothing to do with what happened to you on the SFB forum Kit. I told you that. I think you guys obsess about Melissa or something, good grief.

BD has no idea what went on because most of it happened in PM. Now drop it. I am not discussing it again.

Since the topic has turned from my encounter, to why I was banned from the BFF. There is no more need for me here. Ask the people at the BFF why, if you need to know. Then believe them if you want to. I really do not care.

Goodnight

 

[kitakaze]

That is not a thread where there was a meltdown and believe me there were many and not always about my sighting. Most of it was juvenile Bigfoot tribal warfare and yes I was just as guilty as anyone else involved in that mess.

Well, see, that's all Bigfootery really is to me. For every John Cartwright looking for answers to the inexplicable thing they saw there are ten Fanatic Chimp Bobos threatening a knuckle sandwich to those who diss their personal gods and heroes with questions of hoaxing. For every John Cartwright or AlanF that can see the bigger picture and deal with fair and expected questions to a black and white zoological question, you have ten Melissa Hovey's or Washingtonian's who feign the ability but are really burning for a skeptical atomic wedgy and are incensed when they realize you're going commando to the point that they just screw the rules and hand you your hat.

If you haven't noticed I'm on this kick trying to get you to see the irrational side of Bigfootery and to realize that it can apply to those in your tribe as well. Check this quote from what I suspect might be an excellent new skeptical book about Bigfoot and Bigfootery that William Parcher linked in another thread:

To the white working-class men who are his biggest fans, Buhs contends, Bigfoot is an icon of untamed masculinity, a populist rebel against scientific elites, the last champion of authentic reality against a plastic, image-driven, effeminate consumer society.

Buhs is at his amused best when following the exploits of bigfoot's human handlers—the colorful band of true believers, hoaxers and pseudo-documentarists who constructed this greatest of all shaggy-hominid stories.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4785560&postcount=96

I don't know about you but I've seen a lot of that in Bigfootery. That has people like Biscardi, Steve Kulls, Fanatic Chimp Bobo Fey, etc written all over it.

Wow,THANK YOU for finding that Kit. That must have been one of the first times I talked to Billy. I wish I was able to see that again. I can access it from my work computer probably.

You're welcome, John. I thought that was neat knowing your great friendship with Billy Willard and all he has done for you to see your first words to him. I disagree with Billy. He is helping you by taking you in the woods, which is fantastic, but he is also encouraging you to think you really did see a 9 x 6 ft monster apeman. Of course you know I find that very hard to accept. IMO, it would almost be better to come up with some Burgstahler-type paranormal explanation than to talk about a giant creature like that being a real species roaming the eastern U.S.. It certainly can't compete with human mind explanations which we know are very real phenomena.

Let me ask you an honest question. Has anyone recently told you something to the effect of to be careful about letting those bastard skoftics get inside your head with sneaky psychobabble and getting you confused about what you know you saw? I think that is probably the case. Yeah, that's me. I'm that guy. I'm the one that is trying to get you to see that so much of what you talk about very, very easily fits within human mind explanations. None of them means you're bat$#!% crazy. They just mean you're human and susceptible to the same conditions as everybody else.

When I was a kid I could have sworn I saw a ghost or some kind of phantasm. Looking back I realized that I was an imaginative kid at the time who was walking the dark and scary way home and had the coolest wall-eyed old Chinese-Canadian school teacher who would freak the crap out of you with ghost stories to the class. You may not think that a monster apeman would make any sense for your mind to make up but there could have been any number of external stimuli that could have been responsible. Something you may not have remembered at all. You could have watched The Legend of Boggy Creek on afternoon matinee TV a month or year before and it went into your mind and linked to that part of you that's afraid of the woods. Who knows? You might have experienced some trauma in the woods that your mind has recreated as a Bigfoot encounter.

The starting point is for you to begin to understand that a species of animal that grows as large as 9 x 6 ft and lives in places like Ohio, Virginia, California, and New York is not going to remain undiscovered by science. It's ludicrous and absurd and the problem right now is that you're surrounded by people with flawed reasoning that are telling you otherwise. I'm not saying that Bigfoot is impossible and your friends like Melissa who don't want you to be affected by teh skoftiks will try and create the false image that we're unreasonable and our minds are just too closed to deal with the truth. So what's the truth then, John? Is someone like Melissa Hovey better equipped to tell you about the truth regarding Bigfoot. Dude. Melissa doesn't know any facts about Bigfoot. Nothing. Nani mo nai. She will be the first to admit that. She hasn't even found a decent, clear maybe Bigfoot print until you guys went together last month to Salt Fork State Park in Ohio and that had only two recognizable digits, was tiny, and was acknowledged as easily being bear.

So who knows? Well, you have people like Pywacket telling you you're a "knower" because you've seen one with your own eyes. What Pywacket should do is reading where I quoted a large chunk of your encounter story and put in vivid colour the parts that are very consistent with some kind of sleep-related phenomenom. You're 90% certain that the image of the massive beast that turned it face in your direction for just but a moment from 50 yards away in your memory in your mind was nothing but a Bigfoot. I'll agree with that. All I want you to consider was that it may never have really been there.

You know, because friends don't let friends believe in Bigfoot:

http://www.examiner.com/x-4112-Nati...-When-people-you-respect-believe-in-Sasquatch

I was on two shows that are no longer on the air. I am not sure If I can still find archives for those shows, but I am looking now. I was on Sasquatch Experience which was where Melissa interviewed me and I was on the Squatchdetective show twice. Billy used to co-host that show and he asked me on there. We all know what happened to Steve Kulls regarding the GA hoax. Let's not even go there please.

Ha!

Thanks, I'll look for those shows. So on those three shows did you share your encounter story three times?

The two men sharing that encounter in that you tube video are my close friend Eric Altman the Director of the PBS and Mike Feltner. They only saw a shadow figure and Eric does not make claims that it was a Bigfoot. Just that is was interesting.

Oh, c'mon, John. That's not the way they're talking at all. Eric said...

Something from behind this bush rose up and all I can describe it is a very large shadowy figure... massive, massive shoulders about four and a half, five feet and bullet-type shaped head. Conical-shaped head. If you've seen Jody Cook's figure... head... black head, it looks a lot like that.

Look at that video again from 3:28 at Eric and Mike's storytelling after Don Keating:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMc_hEFBwOI

They're talking Bigfoot to Bigfoot enthusiasts. They're enticing the people gathered around them and listening intently to believe they encountered Bigfoot. That they never use the definitive words "we saw Bigfoot" is irrelevant. They're engaging in the game of Woods & Wildmen. They're out in the woods hoping to experience and if they're lucky they can have their turn at storytelling and at belief reaffirmation time. They're talking about something throwing a couch pillow-sized rock being tossed and how terrified they were. It's prime Bigfootery. Let's go back Eric's turn with the talking stick (wait, holy crap. That stick he's holding... is that actually a talking stick?)...

It wasn't bent down where it rose up and you could see its back. It was *straight* up and I yelled out "What the heck is that!?" and he was freaking out and he didn't see it.

- Over to Mike -

I was in the car so... I was saying to ya it was kind of like a horror movie. It's like, you know... *starts patting pockets* keys, KEYS, KEYS! He had the keys and I'm like, looking through the car so...

- back to Eric -

I don't know what I saw but it made me stop the car and pull back in to look again and I had my highbeams back on this bush *pointing behind him* a second time and i jumped out with his spotlight and I had the spotlight on the bush and the highbeams on the bush looking at this thing going "what the hell did I just see?" Nothing there. I stood there for a few minutes listening to see if I could hear something going down into the woods... Nothing. Not a sound.

*pointing at Mike* He's screaming at me "LET'S GET OUTTA HERE!! LET'S GET OUTTA HERE" The story doesn't end there. It actually gets more interesting the next day.

See, John, that's Bigfootery. That's what Bigfootery is - Eric laying down the heavy Bigfoot vibes with a few casual and unimportant disclaimers while people hang on every word while guys are walking around the crowd with cameras and mics. That was the ABS expedition to Salt Fork State Park and look how those guys were behaving. Wow. I mean, I realize they're your friends and I'm not trying to insult them but holy cow, look at that. That behaviour is no different than Darkwing and No Mercy of the MABRC with the noisemaker fleeing in terror after they think they've been surround by four Bigfoots ambushing them. That's the classic search-and-flee that I mentioned at SFB when Melissa got choked about and suspended after I questioned the competence of the non-member (thefirstbillyjack) who posted a video of a porcupine which he fled from thinking it a baby Bigfoot. Think about it reasonably and try to remove yourself from the perspective of a fellow tribe member. Does that behaviour not look at least a little silly to you?

Kit, Yes there are many people I have been in the field with who see Bigfoot behind every tree or hear one with every twig snap. Melissa is not one of them. She is skeptical. I do not get caught up in that hoopla. It has gotten pretty nuts sometimes, especially the time someone was trying to hoax me. Like I have told you before, I am not interested in anything but the animal. Forget the screams, the plaster casts, the stick structures, the blurry pictures, forget all of it. It can be interesting, but none of it is worth anything as proof.

I agree and disagree. I certainly agree in that I don't think Melissa is the type who sees a Bigfoot behind every tree at all but I do not think she is an unbiased critical thinker. Tube once said that Melissa is basically like a groupie in Bigfootery and while that may sound harsh and mean, I can totally understand why he said that. I could take Melissa kicking me out of her forum personally but it is something I absolutely expected and prepared for. When she deletes posts that are simply and politely showing where she was confused about something or for seeking clarification with her dictums she is acting with bias. Her skepticism is not functioning properly.

Why would she flip out when HarryH and I started discussing Paul Freeman's admitted hoaxing? Is that not just facepalm silly? The reason she is having a problem with it is because she's a huge fan of Meldrum who stands by Freeman casts, including ones that have been the center of her feud with Matt Crowley. It's a sore spot and she doesn't think clearly. The weird irony is that she totally writes off Bullet Maker after he says he was hoaxing the MABRC but she does not similarly write off Freeman. What is up with that? That is just bizarre.

When I listen to Melissa speak to a person like Meldrum, Munns, or Noll I can easily discern her total bias in accepting what they say without being able to properly tackle the most basic flaws of their pro-Bigfoot ideas. She simply wants to show her support and doesn't care nearly enough about being an adept interviewer ready to pursue difficult questions to their resolution. I see that when she cheerleads Lyndon to take up the debate with me and scowls and steams when he gives up and says he'll move on because scoftics aren't worth it.

That's just my opinion and I do not at all expect you to agree, just to see how it looks to people that don't share your perspective.

 

[kitakaze]

They do have every right to think what they want about my encounter. But this has NOTHING to do with my encounter.

OK, I have said I do not want to discuss or re-hash the old BFF crap. But you guys just will not leave it alone will you?

First of all I said, I was banned because of the people I associate with in the field. Who the heck said it was Melissa Hovey? BD did. I have only been in the field with Melissa Hovey ONCE and that was in April. This is just people wanting to pounce on me for being her friend. I had nothing to do with what happened to you on the SFB forum Kit. I told you that. I think you guys obsess about Melissa or something, good grief.

BD has no idea what went on because most of it happened in PM. Now drop it. I am not discussing it again.

Since the topic has turned from my encounter, to why I was banned from the BFF. There is no more need for me here. Ask the people at the BFF why, if you need to know. Then believe them if you want to. I really do not care.

Goodnight

John, please relax and try not to be so sensitive. Please note the part of my post that you did not include in your quote:

It's not an unfair or irrational thing for some people to think you made up your story. People make up stories to elevate their status in a group and gain acceptance all the time. I've seen it with religious, UFO, ghost, and crypto groups many times. Bullet Maker or Paul Freeman, anyone? I'm not getting that vibe from what I've seen so far with you. The facts as I have seen them indicate that you really believe that you saw a Bigfoot. I think there is a way to definitively answer what you saw that doesn't involve poking every bush or turning every leaf.

Wait a minute... what did I just say?

I'm trying to address something that I felt could cause you to get upset and storm off. I wanted to show that while it's not unreasonable for BD and rock to think the way they do, I'm showing you I don't think you are lying. And yet it seems you are ready to storm off at the drop of a hat. Try to take it easy. I know you had nothing to do with my removal from the SFB and I have complimented you for abstaining from that decision in this thread and by PM. I appreciated that. If you look at what I wrote without being hyper-defensive, you'll see that I was trying to quell the discussion of the BFF and turn it back to your encounter.

So let's get back to your encounter. What are the silver bullets that are going to blast the idea that what you saw in the Great Dismal Swamp was in your mind?