Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[William Parcher]

This Area X thing is so much like the Michigan Recording Project (MRP). We now even have the drive by posting by Brown (bipto) just like Flowers did.

But the Xers probably learned a big lesson from the MRP. Never give the skeptics anything to chew on. The MRP publicly released their recordings - which were faked of course. The Xers aren't going to do something like that because their Oklahoma Bigfoots are just as fake as the Michigan ones.

You won't see photos or video of these Bigfoots because they are going to look like guys in costumes.

Like the MRP, this is a "live performance" out in the woods for Bigfoot believers. Bigfoot believers joining other believers and inviting other believers. But really the necessary ingredient is being there along with others who assure you and each other that that thing we are looking at down in that ravine is a real Bigfoot not a guy in a suit. Let me tell you that it looks just like the one I watched in '89. That is the real deal and I am honored to be with you on your first sighting.

The social dynamics of that situation will prevent anyone from saying, "Uh, I think we are being hoaxed and we should go down there to confirm my suspicion right away. We need to bust this scam thing right now before it goes any further." No, that will never happen because the attendees are selected and invited based on the near certainty that they are not the kind of person who would do that. The kind of person to ruin a very cool performance.

 

[Castro]

There are 39 Charles Branson's in Oklahoma, the only way to know for sure is to request a copy of the sherrif's report of the shooting incident.

How many in Honobia, OK?
http://www.texasbigfoot.com/index.php/news/news/204-the-echo-incident

Statements made or reported as being made by Honobia, OK, resident Charles Branson at the Honobia Bigfoot Festival on 1 October 2011, concerning incidents that took place the previous July, contain inaccuracies. The basic facts are as follows.
The TBRC was on Mr. Branson’s property with his permission as part of Operation Endurance (OE)

 

[Drewbot]

So who was supposed to be based at the west cabin? That's your Bigfoot, even Shaggy could figure this one out

 

[GT/CS]

This Area X thing is so much like the Michigan Recording Project (MRP). We now even have the drive by posting by Brown (bipto) just like Flowers did.

But the Xers probably learned a big lesson from the MRP. Never give the skeptics anything to chew on. The MRP publicly released their recordings - which were faked of course. The Xers aren't going to do something like that because their Oklahoma Bigfoots are just as fake as the Michigan ones.

You won't see photos or video of these Bigfoots because they are going to look like guys in costumes.

Like the MRP, this is a "live performance" out in the woods for Bigfoot believers. Bigfoot believers joining other believers and inviting other believers. But really the necessary ingredient is being there along with others who assure you and each other that that thing we are looking at down in that ravine is a real Bigfoot not a guy in a suit. Let me tell you that it looks just like the one I watched in '89. That is the real deal and I am honored to be with you on your first sighting.

The social dynamics of that situation will prevent anyone from saying, "Uh, I think we are being hoaxed and we should go down there to confirm my suspicion right away. We need to bust this scam thing right now before it goes any further." No, that will never happen because the attendees are selected and invited based on the near certainty that they are not the kind of person who would do that. The kind of person to ruin a very cool performance.

Yeah, when they come over here and post a threat we fairly safe in assuming they're getting nervous.

 

[tube]

Too bad the researchers in "area X" would be unable to make use of tracking dogs. While dogs have proven themselves admirably in their ability to find drugs, explosives, escaped convicts, and now evidently ~whale scat~ they are simply intimidated by Bigfoot.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/u...rc=rechp&utm_source=buffer&buffer_share=100db

 

[Drewbot]

And bedbugs

 

[GT/CS]

<snip>
Like the MRP, this is a "live performance" out in the woods for Bigfoot believers. Bigfoot believers joining other believers and inviting other believers. But really the necessary ingredient is being there along with others who assure you and each other that that thing we are looking at down in that ravine is a real Bigfoot not a guy in a suit. Let me tell you that it looks just like the one I watched in '89. That is the real deal and I am honored to be with you on your first sighting.

The social dynamics of that situation will prevent anyone from saying, "Uh, I think we are being hoaxed and we should go down there to confirm my suspicion right away. We need to bust this scam thing right now before it goes any further." No, that will never happen because the attendees are selected and invited based on the near certainty that they are not the kind of person who would do that. The kind of person to ruin a very cool performance.

They certainly can't afford to have someone like Drew running after the thing with a big-ass knife!

 

[William Parcher]

They don't need and wouldn't want dogs. They can consistently find and observe Bigfoot in Area X without the use of dogs.

"...and if dogs scare away our Bigfoots then the project could be ruined forever."

Plus, if some dog grabs your hoaxer in the fur suit then you are going to have an unwanted situation. Dogs don't understand scripts; let alone unwritten scripts.

 

[tube]

On a serious note, the use of firearms, and the subsequent public defense of this behavior to hunt imaginary creatures is dangerous pathology.

Bigfootery usually gets a pass in the "what's the harm" category of the woo world. There is nothing intrinsically unhealthy about going out in the woods and hiking around. In fact, that's a genuinely healthy activity. Bigfootery is usually not like dowsing for IEDs, anti-vax, quack medical treatments, exorcism, etc, which actually end up killing people.

But now we have people out in the woods with semi-automatic shotguns loaded with slugs and buckshot and "firing all the rounds in rapid succession."

If you read the TBRC report it all reeks of para-military fantasy with people assigning themselves titles like "Field Operations Director." It's easy to mock the stupidity of someone who dresses in a ghillie suit and steps out into a roadway and gets himself killed, because he does that to himself. It won't be so funny when the macho fantasies of the TBRC get some innocent hiker or play-time hoaxer in a suit killed.

If they end up killing someone the inevitable legal defense of "accident" is grossly diminished by their own public boasts of engaging in this behavior in the first place.

Bipto; your "teams" behavior is stupid and dangerous. It's quite natural that skeptics will call you on it, and it's bad form to respond to criticism with veiled threats of violence.

 

[William Parcher]

If you read the TBRC report it all reeks of para-military fantasy with people assigning themselves titles like "Field Operations Director."...

It seems like it's always been that way in Bigfootery. There may be an attraction to Bigfoot because it's somewhat like "hunting" a very stealthy combatant (enemy) in challenging environments that are often foreign to you... but not to them. Tracking a Bigfoot and getting a glimpse is like seeking Charlie in the Nam forest. A real enemy you would drop with your rifle but with Bigfoot you are unarmed or you just choose not to shoot.

A military dude would make a great suited hoaxer too. They often know good ways to slip in and out of situations without being detected. Bigfoot was just there and then gone again.

 

[tsig]

Folks, I got a much better USGS map, the Lynn Mountain Quadrangle which is 44 megabytes of detail for free at the USGS site. This is the best map I can find showing the location of the one-acre parcel owned by Charles Branson.

[qimg]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn180/lirajeanlogan/AreaXLynnMt.jpg[/qimg]

The square I have designated is the 640 acres known as Section 5 of Township 1N Range 26E. There is an intersection of County Road 256 coming down from Lynn Mountain, and Forest Service Road 6025 A. So that one-acre parcel is along one of those roads. I could work it down closer, but what's the point. If it can't be found with this much help already then you are no boy scout.

This is an inholding in the Oachita National Forest so it is interesting to listen to the attempt to threaten people with angry property owners or bootleggers. Whatever property inholdings are there don't even make it on a U.S. quadrangle map.

One acre is 208 ft by 208 ft if it is a square. They give you the full description on the tax rolls, but this is an idea of the size. I think there have been references to two cabins being on the property.

If this is the property then it is just big enough to hold hunting cabins. Whatever alleged "research" they're doing is on national forest land and can be shadowed by anyone who cares to follow them around with cameras for a laugh.

There's quite a bit of national forest service literature on attractions around there. The closest is the Beech Creek National Scenic Area shown here:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsm9_039478.pdf

That is to the immediate south of the subject property. You can see inholdings marked on that publication in grey. There's 32 miles of maintained trails within that area.

So this is national forest service area recreation dominated activity, not bootlegging.

Great work.

Portraying a rec area as a remote, exotic place populated by fierce, knuckle dragging rednecks seems a mite disingenuous to me but then the whole thing about bigfooting is stories about how you didn't get the picture/evidence.

 

[William Parcher]

The MRP misrepresented the wilderness environment of their "camp" too. They were sitting on a dairy farm surrounded by other farms.

Anyway, I think the "gun threat" is strictly a bluff to keep people away. I doubt that there would be any shooting at all unless somebody was physically attacked. They want to keep the nutjobs away and skeptics who want to ruin the ongoing game.

 

[tsig]

It seems like it's always been that way in Bigfootery. There may be an attraction to Bigfoot because it's somewhat like "hunting" a very stealthy combatant (enemy) in challenging environments that are often foreign to you... but not to them. Tracking a Bigfoot and getting a glimpse is like seeking Charlie in the Nam forest. A real enemy you would drop with your rifle but with Bigfoot you are unarmed or you just choose not to shoot.

A military dude would make a great suited hoaxer too. They often know good ways to slip in and out of situations without being detected. Bigfoot was just there and then gone again.

It looks like bigfooting is going more and more to dog and pony shows where a couple of con men take the marks to the woods and they see big foot, There wouldn't even be a need for a man in a suit, just wait for the right time of the evening and the one in charge points at a shadow and states authoritatively "There's bigfoot", if needed the second man sees it too and gets emotional, under those circumstances most will willingly although unknowingly play their parts especially if you've already set the tone with campfire stories before hand.

Afterwards this new "sighting" is added to the lore that will be told to future marks around other camfires.

 

[Jodie]

How many in Honobia, OK?
http://www.texasbigfoot.com/index.php/news/news/204-the-echo-incident

Does the hunting lease necessarily have to be close to where he lives? If the shooting incident happened in LeFlore then there ought to be a report about it with an address of the site.

 

[Jodie]

On a serious note, the use of firearms, and the subsequent public defense of this behavior to hunt imaginary creatures is dangerous pathology.

Bigfootery usually gets a pass in the "what's the harm" category of the woo world. There is nothing intrinsically unhealthy about going out in the woods and hiking around. In fact, that's a genuinely healthy activity. Bigfootery is usually not like dowsing for IEDs, anti-vax, quack medical treatments, exorcism, etc, which actually end up killing people.

But now we have people out in the woods with semi-automatic shotguns loaded with slugs and buckshot and "firing all the rounds in rapid succession."

If you read the TBRC report it all reeks of para-military fantasy with people assigning themselves titles like "Field Operations Director." It's easy to mock the stupidity of someone who dresses in a ghillie suit and steps out into a roadway and gets himself killed, because he does that to himself. It won't be so funny when the macho fantasies of the TBRC get some innocent hiker or play-time hoaxer in a suit killed.

If they end up killing someone the inevitable legal defense of "accident" is grossly diminished by their own public boasts of engaging in this behavior in the first place.

Bipto; your "teams" behavior is stupid and dangerous. It's quite natural that skeptics will call you on it, and it's bad form to respond to criticism with veiled threats of violence.

Did I miss something? Has Bipto posted over here somewhere? Anyway, I think you are absolutely correct. I never understood why they named everything project so and so, why not just call it an investigation?

 

[Jodie]

Great work.

Portraying a rec area as a remote, exotic place populated by fierce, knuckle dragging rednecks seems a mite disingenuous to me but then the whole thing about bigfooting is stories about how you didn't get the picture/evidence.

Yes, misrepresenting the area is questionable if this it.

 

[GT/CS]

Did I miss something? Has Bipto posted over here somewhere? Anyway, I think you are absolutely correct. I never understood why they named everything project so and so, why not just call it an investigation?

Jodie,
It went to AAH.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243188

 

[William Parcher]

It looks like bigfooting is going more and more to dog and pony shows where a couple of con men take the marks to the woods and they see big foot,...

Right, but I will add that it doesn't look like the MRP and this Area X are about raking in profits for the "researchers". This is like a staged show for people who love the idea of Bigfoot being real and want to share what it would be like to experience a real Bigfoot if they did actually exist. And it's pretty easy to flip folks over to "knower" when you show them a walking and tree-knocking Bigfoot. Watch out for the flying pebbles. These fellas get rambunctious sometimes. But they haven't killed any of us at all, not even a little bit. We stay back and watch them. Happy to watch them, and then a warm glow with the thought that those skeptics are wrong. We thought they were wrong and now we know.

These study groups (by invitation) are like baptisms. Boom now you are one of us. It's easy when they are already believers or want to join the believers.

Cultish.

 

[tube]

The notion of Bigfoot "field research" is indeed analogous to baptism. In addition, the continuous production of "class A" or "class B" reports from BFRO expeditions takes on a quasi-religious character. You have a group of like-minded people, all hoping for an "experience" of some sort. Add darkness, limited visibility due to wilderness environment, and the presence of known animals and humans to create false positives, and you can generate the same "collective hallucination" seen in sightings of religious apparitions.

I've argued this for some time now, and I still claim that Bigfootery is a quasi-religion. It's not a ~true~ religion in that participants don't literally worship Bigfoot, but it shares many of the same psychological functions as religion.

http://www.skepdic.com/collective.html

 

[William Parcher]

Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Yes, they like rank and file too.

I've argued this for some time now, and I still claim that Bigfootery is a quasi-religion. It's not a ~true~ religion in that participants don't literally worship Bigfoot, but it shares many of the same psychological functions as religion.

Well I think that Bigfoot is idolized and becomes an obsession. It becomes a lifestyle and regular thought during the course of the day. I think that Bigfooters might think about Bigfoot more often than the religious think about God.

I will say it's a cult with follower behavior that is sometimes like that of the religious. But that's like other cults too.