Big Brother in Britain

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

My point is that, legally, we still have presumption of innocence. By painting everyone with the same guilty brush, we betray that.

So you can, if you want, go to court and argue that you are innocent. If you are, you will be cleared, if you are guilty then will face the consequences of endeagering the life and property of others.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

1. Yes it is your concern. Stop dodging other peoples arguments.

NO, it isn’t my concern. Preserving freedom and individual liberty are my concerns.

2. Its a hypothetical question, humour me.

It’s an absurd and unrealistic hypothetical; can you come up with a different one?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

NO, it isn’t my concern. Preserving freedom and individual liberty are my concerns.

It’s an absurd and unrealistic hypothetical; can you come up with a different one?

1. So preserving the individual of liberty people of individuals to not be run over by reckless idiots doesnt count here?

2. No, its not that difficult. Try and apply yourself Tony.

 

[BTox]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

My point is that, legally, we still have presumption of innocence. By painting everyone with the same guilty brush, we betray that.

How is stopping the car of someone driving 100 mph and arresting them any different than pulling them over and arresting them? Or any different from capturing and arresting someone accused of murder or burglary?

 

[Luke T.]

Perhaps if people were reminded that driving a car is a privelege and not a right, it might help this conversation about liberties.

Or not.

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

My point is that, legally, we still have presumption of innocence. By painting everyone with the same guilty brush, we betray that.

But being detained does not take away any presumption of innocence; it's not like cop sentences you on the spot. That indeed would be a major problem, forcing a car to come to a halt does not come anywhere near that.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

How is stopping the car of someone driving 100 mph and arresting them any different than pulling them over and arresting them? Or any different from capturing and arresting someone accused of murder or burglary?

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or can you really not understand?

 

[BTox]

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or can you really not understand?

Sorry, as a rule I have problems understanding illogic.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

But being detained does not take away any presumption of innocence; it's not like cop sentences you on the spot.

It is my contention that mandating such a device be required in all cars is an infringement on liberty. Furthermore, by mandating such a device be required removes the presumption of innocence by treating everyone equally guilty regardless of whether a crime was committed.

 

[Tony]

Sorry, as a rule I have problems understanding illogic.

In other words, you can't understand.

 

[BTox]

In other words, you can't understand.

Yes, I cannot understand illogic.

 

[Andonyx]

I'm sorry, I have to agree with Tony in the most General sense here. It seeme to me that JOL is arguing the old, "if you're innocent you have nothing to worry about line."

That would be fine if in reality being arrested and investigated on charges that amounted to nothing didn't hurt you in the long run, as long as you were found innocent, but that's simply not the Case.

Read Richard G's topic on Airport security in this same forum for an example of how a man who violated no laws, had no ill intent and did nothing wrong is now out $2500 and probably more, plus missed work, and so forth because he was presumed guilty.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Brother in Britain

1. So preserving the individual of liberty people of individuals to not be run over by reckless idiots doesnt count here?

What evidence do you have that such a device would prevent ALL car accidents? If no such evidence exists, your bit about "preserving the individual of liberty people of individuals to not be run over by reckless idiots" is moot.

2. No, its not that difficult. Try and apply yourself Tony.

I'll say again its absurd and unrealistic.

 

[Tony]

Yes, I cannot understand illogic.

Doubtful, this is just an attempt for you to sink back into your comfortable (and un-American) worldview while trying to ostracize me. Keep diluting yourself, "illogic" indeed.

 

[Grammatron]

I'm sorry, I have to agree with Tony in the most General sense here. It seeme to me that JOL is arguing the old, "if you're innocent you have nothing to worry about line."

That would be fine if in reality being arrested and investigated on charges that amounted to nothing didn't hurt you in the long run, as long as you were found innocent, but that's simply not the Case.

Read Richard G's topic on Airport security in this same forum for an example of how a man who violated no laws, had no ill intent and did nothing wrong is now out $2500 and probably more, plus missed work, and so forth because he was presumed guilty.

I would agree with that only if you were forced to put such a device in your car, but if I want to do it voluntarily (like LoJack) then where's the harm?

 

[BTox]

Doubtful, this is just an attempt for you to sink back into your comfortable (and un-American) worldview while trying to ostracize me. Keep diluting yourself, "illogic" indeed.

As a practicing homeopath I realize the more I dilute myself the stronger and more omnipotent I become.

 

[Tony]

As a practicing homeopath I realize the more I dilute myself the stronger and more omnipotent I become.

Well sh!t, I want omnipotence too. Can you hook a nigga up?

 

[shanek]

Out of curiosity, what's so bad about road humps? (I assume they're the same thing as speed humps or speed ramps here in the US.)

To those wondering what's so bad about the police being able to push a button and stop your car: If the police can do it, what's to stop someone else from figuring out how to do it?

 

[Tmy]

Do you realize how dangerous it would be to have a car lose all power while its moving? Surprising the driver? That could cause so many accidents by itself. Then you have Big Brother on the hook for a wrongful death of some kieds who were hit by an out of control car that lost its power brakes and steering.

 

[Grammatron]

To those wondering what's so bad about the police being able to push a button and stop your car: If the police can do it, what's to stop someone else from figuring out how to do it?

128 and/or 256 bit encryption.