• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Big Brother in Britain

Tmy said:
Do you realize how dangerous it would be to have a car lose all power while its moving? Surprising the driver? That could cause so many accidents by itself. Then you have Big Brother on the hook for a wrongful death of some kieds who were hit by an out of control car that lost its power brakes and steering.

I imagine by then we would have drive-by-wire technology which would allow the car to be put into Neutral where it would safely decelerate while still giving ability to the driver to steer it and stop it.
 
* The article says the power would be reduced only slowly.

* Suzuki make the Hayabusa, not Honda.

* speed bumps are dangerous for motorcycles in slippy conditions, a hazard for injured people being taken to hospitals in ambulances, and an unnecessary hinderance to fire engines and the like.

* As us poor fools in the UK are already happy to pay 6$ / gallon for gas, I dare say we will happily accept this new, costly addition to our already ludicrously over-taxed motoring.
 
Luke T. said:
Perhaps if people were reminded that driving a car is a privelege and not a right, it might help this conversation about liberties.

Or not. :)

Well you dont have a rightto own a phone, that doesnt mean the govt is free to listen to your conversations.

Even wh/o a license I am free to drive on private property.
 
Tmy said:


Well you dont have a rightto own a phone, that doesnt mean the govt is free to listen to your conversations.

But the ability for them to is built in, isn't it?
 
Here's a true story.

In 1970s israel, color TV broadcasting finally arrived, since the world switched to "living color" broadcasting. The israeli government feared the social effect: until then, both rich and poor had B&W TV; what would happen if the rich will now start buying color TVs while the poor would be stuck with the B&W ones? So they hit on a wonderful device known as the "mehikon" ("eraser"). This gadget "erased" the color from all israeli TV broadcasts, by "translating" all color into various shades of gray. This meant that even if you had a color TV, and the original program broadcast was in color, you'd recieve it in FAKE B&W! (think of the "coloring" of old pictures, only in reverse).

Needless to say, within a few weeks a new gadget arrived: the "anti-mehikon", which you could attach to your color TV, and translate the gray-scale color images back to their original color, so you would get a color broadcast after all. So the evil rich people got a color TV with an anti-mehikon, which made the mehikon the laughingstock of the entire country. It was soon discontinued.

Same thing here. The sole result of this thing would be that those who could afford to will buy a "anti-stopping" gadget that would defeat the cop's device and not allow the car to be stopped. In effect, the only people who it will really stop would be the poor schmucks who could not afford to buy the gadget.

As an aside, I think a similar VOLUNTARY system like this does exist with many car-theft-protection services: you can AGREE with them to install a gadget in the car that stops it when it goes beyound a certain speed, as an anti-theft device, when you know you never drive so fast and if somebody does, it means the car was stolen. It is not the idea itself that is wrong--it's making it compulsory.

By the way, wouldn't "killing" the engine at 90 MPH be a sure way to create TONS of accidents?
 
There is a reason we threw the Brits, and their King out of America many years ago. Judging from this story, and others, it was not a mistake.
 
Skeptic said:
Here's a true story.

In 1970s israel, color TV broadcasting finally arrived, since the world switched to "living color" broadcasting. The israeli government feared the social effect: until then, both rich and poor had B&W TV; what would happen if the rich will now start buying color TVs while the poor would be stuck with the B&W ones? So they hit on a wonderful device known as the "mehikon" ("eraser"). This gadget "erased" the color from all israeli TV broadcasts, by "translating" all color into various shades of gray. This meant that even if you had a color TV, and the original program broadcast was in color, you'd recieve it in FAKE B&W! (think of the "coloring" of old pictures, only in reverse).

Needless to say, within a few weeks a new gadget arrived: the "anti-mehikon", which you could attach to your color TV, and translate the gray-scale color images back to their original color, so you would get a color broadcast after all. So the evil rich people got a color TV with an anti-mehikon, which made the mehikon the laughingstock of the entire country. It was soon discontinued.

Same thing here. The sole result of this thing would be that those who could afford to will buy a "anti-stopping" gadget that would defeat the cop's device and not allow the car to be stopped. In effect, the only people who it will really stop would be the poor schmucks who could not afford to buy the gadget.

As an aside, I think a similar VOLUNTARY system like this does exist with many car-theft-protection services: you can AGREE with them to install a gadget in the car that stops it when it goes beyound a certain speed, as an anti-theft device, when you know you never drive so fast and if somebody does, it means the car was stolen. It is not the idea itself that is wrong--it's making it compulsory.

By the way, wouldn't "killing" the engine at 90 MPH be a sure way to create TONS of accidents?

Like I said, you would in fact be putting the car in neutral not turning it off so it's not a problem.

As for the anti-device it would not be legal in the US because unlike Israel, USA does not allow people to own a jamming device of any kind. As of now there is no voluntary system to disable the car in any way by police while it's in motion. And I don't much favor the way South Africans deal with car thieves.
 
Grammatron said:


I would agree with that only if you were forced to put such a device in your car, but if I want to do it voluntarily (like LoJack) then where's the harm?

Sorry. I may have missed the part where the conversation diverged...I've been obsessed with the science section today.

I thought we were discussing the UK police push to have this installed mandatorily. Am I mistaken?
 
Grammatron said:




As for the anti-device it would not be legal in the US because unlike Israel, USA does not allow people to own a jamming device of any kind. As of now there is no voluntary system to disable the car in any way by police while it's in motion. And I don't much favor the way South Africans deal with car thieves.

Yes, and we're not allowed to own cable descramblers either....so?

Look you only have to look at Radar detectors, and traffic camera blinders to know that the moment they develop something like this someone somewhere even if it's sold from a small off-shore Island will start selling something to defeat it.

First we had Radar Guns,

Then we had detectors,

Then we had Radar Guns that used Lasers,

Then we had detectors that could read the laser band....

It goes on and on and on.
 
Andonyx said:


Yes, and we're not allowed to own cable descramblers either....so?

Look you only have to look at Radar detectors, and traffic camera blinders to know that the moment they develop something like this someone somewhere even if it's sold from a small off-shore Island will start selling something to defeat it.

First we had Radar Guns,

Then we had detectors,

Then we had Radar Guns that used Lasers,

Then we had detectors that could read the laser band....

It goes on and on and on.

I am fairly certain that you are allowed to own and use one as long as you are not getting channels you shouldn't legally be having in the first place, though I could be wrong.

All the things you mention require a person to install it prior to use of a car. Most of the high-speed chases (at least here in LA) happen because someone stole a car and thus is unlikely to have the anti-device. I'm not anywhere near claiming that there could be a foolproof device.
 
ceptimus said:
* speed bumps are dangerous for motorcycles in slippy conditions, a hazard for injured people being taken to hospitals in ambulances, and an unnecessary hinderance to fire engines and the like.

We're talking about speed humps, not speed bumps. Again assuming they're like the ones in the states, you can safely drive over them at the posted speed (just not faster).
 
shanek said:


Crackable. 128-bit WEP was cracked.

Well then 256-bit. Point being there is no case I am aware of where somebody hacked Onstar(tm) and used it to open up a car.
 
Grammatron said:


Is there much difference between flying off a motorcycle at 191 and 172?

You get to say "sh!t" at 172 before you die, at 191 you only get as far as "sh..."

At those speeds, your motorcycle can effectively become a missile with a payload of however big your gas tank is. I've seen the results of a motorcycle hitting an auto at ~120 mph and it blew the sedan wide open, exploding gasoline everywhere.
 
peptoabysmal said:


You get to say "sh!t" at 172 before you die, at 191 you only get as far as "sh..."

At those speeds, your motorcycle can effectively become a missile with a payload of however big your gas tank is. I've seen the results of a motorcycle hitting an auto at ~120 mph and it blew the sedan wide open, exploding gasoline everywhere.

Good, everyone having a good laugh?

Excellent.

Now would anyone like to go back and read the entire post?

You know, the one where I mentioned it was a petty difference?

Great.

Now someone please explain to me why the governor is on there in first place....
 
Andonyx said:


Good, everyone having a good laugh?

Excellent.

Now would anyone like to go back and read the entire post?

You know, the one where I mentioned it was a petty difference?

Great.

Now someone please explain to me why the governor is on there in first place....

Didn't you answer that question with insurence?
 
It's to do with product liability, and the speed rating of the tyres.

Z rated tyres might fail in hot conditions, with a full load, at a maintained speed over 172mph.

Of, course, there are not many places you can do that speed for long. :D

ceptimus. (who has a European spec. Honda Blackbird, that is not restricted, and will maintain over 185mph)
 
I think it is hard to argue legitimatly for the right to be able to break the law.
However thats fine when the laws are just. Would not the ability to monitor at every step of ones life, stop the car you are driving in etc make the 1984 police state merely a few ill thought out laws away? What precedents are we setting and where will the observation of our lives end?

Perhaps we should spend a bit of time considering just where exactly our societies are going, what we actually want from our society etc, take a longer term look at how we govern ourselves, rather than just small steps to deal with problems as they arise.
 

Back
Top Bottom