Biden for President?

[Skeptic Ginger]

It just looks a tiny bit hypocritical to some people if after all the Me Too, Believe the Victim, Kavanaugh, Pussy Grabbing thing that when it's the home team captain all of a sudden the Democrats and their press are concerned about evidence, and doubt the accusation. The argument around Kavanaugh did seem to be that an accusation of this sort should have been enough to stop him getting the Supreme Court job. A lot of nasty things got said about Republicans over approving Kavanaugh and what it said about their views on women.

I don't doubt that there are rationalizations that mean this case is entirely different.

Well that's not what I see at all and I refuse to be dragged into this attempt by the right wing to distract from the actual issues.

Woman makes accusation. There are lots of uncertainties about it. Biden has no history of this kind of behavior. He kisses hair and massages shoulders (or something) we all agree was creepy. Easy to imagine a woman, or more than one woman taking that the wrong way.

Sticking his finger up a vagina?

At some point one has to say, is this a valid claim or not? I don't think it is and I don't think that is the least bit hypocritical. Tough turkey this is a Democrat. You all can go on trying to be 'fair'.

What else you got and how long are people going to milk this?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This puts the Democratic party in a tough spot, because their very vocal position was that Ford did make her case and that Republicans don't care about rape.

No it doesn't.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

She claims that she quit the job to move across country with her boyfriend, that she quit the job because she was unhappy with how the Washington elites treated Putin, and that she was fired.
She claims that she wore nothing under her skirt, and that he pushed aside her underwear.
She claims that Biden sneered that she meant nothing to him after the incident, and that Biden comforted her after the incident.
There is also a cloud of confusion over whether she filed a complaint with the Senate naming Biden or alleging sexual assault at the time, and even whether she named Biden in the police report she filed this month over the alleged 1993 incident.

This certainly supports her claim(s) being made up.

 

[theprestige]

If there's one thing we should know by now, about American politics, it's that looking like a hypocrite simply doesn't matter.

I'm not sure I agree. Being seen as a hypocrite on these things hurts Democrats more than Republicans

If you say so. On the other hand...

This puts the Democratic party in a tough spot, because their very vocal position was that Ford did make her case and that Republicans don't care about rape.

No it doesn't.

Heh.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

If you say so. On the other hand...





Heh.

The party faithfuls will come out and vote like they always do and swallow the "lesser evil" line whole and ask for more.

Victory is made in the margins. Perhaps an exhausting general election campaign between rapey Joe and aspiring fascist Trump is one just bleak enough to suppress turnout. I'm surely not looking forward to it, this is depressing as hell.

 

[Bogative]

[If]we solve the problem in United States of America and you don't solve it other parts of the world, you know what's going to happen. We're gonna have, you're gonna have travel bans, you're not gonna be able to do, have have ha… economic intercourse around the world. There's a lot… look, when America goes alone, when when America is first, it's America alone.

– Joe Biden's Corpse, April 2020


Kind of makes for a catchy campaign slogan:

"Economic intercourse around the world"
Biden/CornPop 2020

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Anyway, I wonder if the outrage in any of these cases is actually real in the first place.

I highly doubt it, and it's not just the sexual indiscretion cases where the outrage is faked. I don't think anyone really cared that the Washington Redskins were called the Washington Redskins, that the Mexican cartoon character on a menu is wearing a sombrero, or that Trump said s**thole countries.

But pretending to be outraged has become both a certain sort of weapon, and a tool to build status with one's in-group. I think if you drew up a pie-graph of twitter posts from the last 6 months it would be 65% pretend outrage.

 

[theprestige]

65% pretend outrage in one color, 35% pretend outrage in another color.

 

[Meadmaker]

or that Trump said s**thole countries.

I was mildly offended by that one, but I agree on all the others.

 

[shuttlt]

Then what was it?

I can think of other motivations, I seem to recall a GoFundMe campaign, but what were you thinking of?

Oh, you mean her objective? Maybe she was telling the truth, who knows?

 

[shuttlt]

Well that's not what I see at all and I refuse to be dragged into this attempt by the right wing to distract from the actual issues.

Woman makes accusation. There are lots of uncertainties about it. Biden has no history of this kind of behavior. He kisses hair and massages shoulders (or something) we all agree was creepy. Easy to imagine a woman, or more than one woman taking that the wrong way.

Sticking his finger up a vagina?

At some point one has to say, is this a valid claim or not? I don't think it is and I don't think that is the least bit hypocritical. Tough turkey this is a Democrat. You all can go on trying to be 'fair'.

What else you got and how long are people going to milk this?

Oh, I agree that we should be fair about the claim. It's a 30 year old claim, who can really say? That's been the Republican claim all along. I don't see them going remotely as far in pushing this as the Democrats did over Kavanaugh. If they do, then it's hypocritical as well. I just don't think they have to.

What is worth talking about is how hugely hypocritical it is for the Democrat establishment to take that line now. If you've set yourself up as the party of moral outrage and believing all women, and then you do a 180 when it's your guy accused... that is the angle to attack,

 

[wasapi]

65% pretend outrage in one color, 35% pretend outrage in another color.

Are you making up statistics or do you have a citation?

What is interesting to me is that there are many questions to be answered, and many that never will be. People speculate and question Biden's past. However, there is no speculating about Trump. He has expressed his frivolities - forcing himself on women - in clear, bragging terms.

I have yet to hear a statement from Biden, saying, "Yeah, I massaged a woman, hugged a kid, because being a presidential candidate I can get away with it."

 

[theprestige]

Are you making up statistics or do you have a citation?

Just cracking wise about Twitter. Does it bother you that I have a low opinion of Twitter and the shows of outrage found on that platform?

What is interesting to me is that there are many questions to be answered, and many that never will be. People speculate and question Biden's past. However, there is no speculating about Trump. He has expressed his frivolities - forcing himself on women - in clear, bragging terms.

We know that Trump is prone to empty boasts.

I have yet to hear a statement from Biden, saying, "Yeah, I massaged a woman, hugged a kid, because being a presidential candidate I can get away with it."

Maybe he just doesn't like to belabor the obvious.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Are you making up statistics or do you have a citation?

Make that 66%.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.....
What is worth talking about is how hugely hypocritical it is for the Democrat establishment to take that line now. If you've set yourself up as the party of moral outrage and believing all women, and then you do a 180 when it's your guy accused... that is the angle to attack,

What else you got?

 

[Pixel42]

I was mildly offended by that one, but I agree on all the others.

The suggestion that being born in a particular country automatically makes you a worthless person who should not be allowed to move somewhere else is extremely offensive.

 

[shuttlt]

The suggestion that being born in a particular country automatically makes you a worthless person who should not be allowed to move somewhere else is extremely offensive.

This sounds like another case of quoting the media summary of what he said rather than what he said. If he literally said the things that are attributed to him, I certainly would have a much harder time with him.

 

[wareyin]

I wonder if the reason for that is that, when it comes right down to it, no one really cares. In other words, the outrage is the hypocritical part, not the denial when "your team" is the target.

I for one watched the long ago Clarence Thomas hearings and found myself saying, "Even if he did all that, so what?" Bill Clinton? "Why am I being told about this?" Brett Kavanaugh? "Jesus Christ he was 17 or 18 years old, and he didn't actually rape anyone. Why would I care?" Donald Trump and the famous "Access Hollywood" tape? "Uhhh…..And?" Donald Trump and the various groping allegations? "That is so rude, but not something I'm going to get all upset about." (The truth is I've groped women without asking consent, and on exactly one occasion, I discovered I didn't have it.) Donald Trump and the allegation of actual rape? Now on that one, if you could prove it happened, I would say throw the bum out of office and into jail. Rape really is different than groping, in my opinion.

Wow, to my knowledge nobody in my social circle has done so. I didn't think it was common or blasé at all.
That said, yes, rape is very different than groping.

So now Joe Biden, and some pretty intense unwanted touching? Yeah, that's bad. Almost thirty years ago? I just can't get really worked up about it today, even if it's true.

On that note, do you know what I think the worst part of the Biden story is? It's the "You are nothing to me" comment. It's one thing to think some girl is into you and make a move that goes way, way, beyond acceptable, but to follow it up with that? That's really bad. It's also the least believable part of the story.

I'd say it's definitely one of the least believable parts of the stories, especially as there really isn't one consistent story. It doesn't sound real, more like something out of a romance novel. Maybe she was writing a book about Biden back in 1993 like the one about Putin/Russia in 2017 or so?

Anyway, I wonder if the outrage in any of these cases is actually real in the first place. If you met someone and he told you a story of how, 2/3 of his lifetime ago, when 17 years old, he told you about how he got totally wasted at a party and jumped on this one girl, would you stop being his friend? I don't think I would. If someone else told you he did it, but he denied it, would you stop being his friend? If they could convince me that he was lying, that might have an effect, just because of the lying aspect, but the actual event wouldn't cause me to get bent out of shape.

I think the outrage is real in many cases, but not all. I would go so far as to claim that the "outrage" over this case by BernieBros who were already doing everything they could to discredit Biden is suspect. Similarly, the "outrage" by conservatives who couldn't care less about Trump's greater actions is ... let's say a tool to build status within one's in group.

I highly doubt it, and it's not just the sexual indiscretion cases where the outrage is faked. I don't think anyone really cared that the Washington Redskins were called the Washington Redskins, that the Mexican cartoon character on a menu is wearing a sombrero, or that Trump said s**thole countries.

But pretending to be outraged has become both a certain sort of weapon, and a tool to build status with one's in-group. I think if you drew up a pie-graph of twitter posts from the last 6 months it would be 65% pretend outrage.

Because some pretend outrage is no reason to assume all outrage is faked. The outrage over, say a President wearing a tan suit being false does not mean that the outrage over a President suggesting Americans should inject disinfectants into their lungs is also false, for one example. Just because you and/or your in group acts that way does not mean everyone else does.

65% pretend outrage in one color, 35% pretend outrage in another color.

Again, just because your color pretends their outrage does not mean the other color does as well.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

The suggestion that being born in a particular country automatically makes you a worthless person who should not be allowed to move somewhere else is extremely offensive.

If he said that, there would have been less fake and more real outrage.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

The truth is I've groped women without asking consent, and on exactly one occasion, I discovered I didn't have it.

That used to be part of the standard courting routine around these parts (defined loosely as "the west"). It was sort of seen as the guy's responsibility to try and learn to read the room, determine if and when the time was right, and initiate something.

I'm in a LTR and no longer looking, but it's got to be tough being a younger guy these days.