Biden for President?

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theprestige said:
Equivalent right down to the "it's okay when the other side does it".
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You are not getting this at all. In no way are they, or ever will be, any equivalence.

I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse, or are really that out of touch with reality.
 
Sideroxylon said:
This is not the time for purity tests.
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November is not the time for purity tests.

Right now.....it's at least time for purity polls. If Biden denies it, but the people believe it to be true, then you have a choice between two liars, in their minds. I would prefer if only one candidate was perceived as a liar.
 
wasapi said:
You are not getting this at all. In no way are they, or ever will be, any equivalence.

I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse, or are really that out of touch with reality.
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I'm having a hard time seeing how they are in no way equivalent. They aren't exactly the same, but there's a lot of overlap.
 
Cain said:
It doesn't matter how many other people she told. The Larry King Live clip already established that she's not just now making things up. This is like Muslims saying their holy book has not been corrupted/rewritten over time. Even if the Qu'ran does faithfully capture Muhammad's exact words, it does not mean that the material claims in the book are true.
I wouldn't be surprised if some lonely cat lady lies and says, "She told me, too."
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I have no idea if Reade is telling the truth or not but your last line reminded me of a witness in the Amanda Knox trial. This elderly widow who was hard of hearing, not wearing hearing aids, and whose niece described her as 'crazy' claimed she heard a blood curdling scream coming from the thick stone walled cottage across the street and down a hill...through closed double pane windows. She also claimed to hear the leaves rustling on the ground through those closed windows. She said she saw a picture of the 3 suspects the next day and that some kids told her that a horrible murder had taken place....before the murder had even been discovered. Believe it or not, the trial judge deemed her to be 'credible' and based the time of the murder largely on her testimony.
 
Shalamar said:
It's only bad when a Democrat does it.

They're fine with it when the accusations are made against Republicans.
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The GOP and conservatives indeed either don't actually care about sexual assault in politics, or in general, or find it a good thing, and I'd argue we should put their inherently bad faith statements on it with Biden completely aside.

Which however in no way means we put these accusations themselves aside. We can, and should, tackle them not because of what the opposite will say but to live our own values. I think Biden should, right now, call for an investigation by whatever body appropriate, and pledge to cooperate fully with it. If things get worse for him, it needs to happen now, before the convention. A brokered convention is better than more shoes dropping after it politically, and oh yeah on the moral side, we kind of DON'T want a rapist on the ticket, right?

Sure, he's not a literally thirty time or more sexual misconduct sleaze like Trump even if this allegation is true, but I'd argue it should still disqualify him from being the nominee if it looks true. Not even 'court of criminal law' standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for Biden over Trump, but for our own sake, just because the GOP and their ilk have zero standards doesn't mean we shouldn't either. After all, Biden isn't about to make other sexual misconduct investigations harder or roll back advancements there so even if one's only voting priority was that, Biden would, utterly tragically, still be the correct choice of the two, but that's damning with faint praise. Right now we can still do something about it.
 
tyr_13 said:
The GOP and conservatives indeed either don't actually care about sexual assault in politics, or in general, or find it a good thing, and I'd argue we should put their inherently bad faith statements on it with Biden completely aside.

Which however in no way means we put these accusations themselves aside. We can, and should, tackle them not because of what the opposite will say but to live our own values. I think Biden should, right now, call for an investigation by whatever body appropriate, and pledge to cooperate fully with it. If things get worse for him, it needs to happen now, before the convention. A brokered convention is better than more shoes dropping after it politically, and oh yeah on the moral side, we kind of DON'T want a rapist on the ticket, right?

Sure, he's not a literally thirty time or more sexual misconduct sleaze like Trump even if this allegation is true, but I'd argue it should still disqualify him from being the nominee if it looks true. Not even 'court of criminal law' standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'.

I'm not saying I wouldn't vote for Biden over Trump, but for our own sake, just because the GOP and their ilk have zero standards doesn't mean we shouldn't either. After all, Biden isn't about to make other sexual misconduct investigations harder or roll back advancements there so even if one's only voting priority was that, Biden would, utterly tragically, still be the correct choice of the two, but that's damning with faint praise. Right now we can still do something about it.
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Oh, I pretty much agree. But who else would the Democrats nominate at this point? The GoP is trying to subvert the process, and say 'See! Vote for the pussygrabber Trump!"
 
Meadmaker said:
I'm having a hard time seeing how they are in no way equivalent. They aren't exactly the same, but there's a lot of overlap.
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The evidence against Trump is on many of the allegations substantially stronger, is completely consistent with his own description of his general actions, in many cases is even more abhorrent than what Biden is accused of here, and number at least thirty.

Most people can know the difference between a punch in the face and stab in the kidney even if both are unacceptable violence. It is, in my very biased view, unseemly to say the least to compare the magnitude of transgressions within many discussions of sexual misconduct, but when the allegations are this far apart there doesn't need to be a lot of calculus or value judgements made to see how not equivalent they are.
 
I thought of an electoral silver lining for Biden out of this mess. As long as this is hanging over him, no one close to his campaign would dare resurrect allegaions of Trump's sexual misconduct. That's a good thing, because those allegations played very poorly in 2016, and they would have fared worse this time around.
 
Shalamar said:
Oh, I pretty much agree. But who else would the Democrats nominate at this point? The GoP is trying to subvert the process, and say 'See! Vote for the pussygrabber Trump!"
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That would be for the delegates at the convention to hammer out. It would be beyond annoying to hear the Bernie Twitter crowd to insist it has to be him of the DNC is stealing it again!1!11, but that's still the better case.

Yeah, I'm a biased Warren supporter, but there are way worse outcomes than 'everyone's second choice' getting it at a brokered convention. There isn't any reason to rule out Bernie, and I could see delegates moving to him too. However, a lot of the people who ran and stopped essentially because they were out of money could easily come back and step into the Biden slot as well.

On the purely political horserace stuff wrongly leaving our values out of it, even if an investigation happens, it looks bad for Biden, and they still go with Biden, that still leaves a lot of time for it to become old news by November, rather than it coming back up again with new information by then.
 
Sideroxylon said:
“Less Rapey Than Trump. Vote Biden!”
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Yes.

Seriously, if you have to chose between two rapists, pick the one who doesn't brag about it and is not a serial rapist.

Likewise, if you have to choose between two murderers, pick the one who only killed one and not the serial killer who brags he'll kill again.

Of course it isn't good but it is the only rational choice if forced to make it.

Then, this shouldn't need to be said, fight like hell to fix the system that created that tragic travesty in the first place.
 
tyr_13 said:
The evidence against Trump is on many of the allegations substantially stronger, is completely consistent with his own description of his general actions, in many cases is even more abhorrent than what Biden is accused of here, and number at least thirty.

Most people can know the difference between a punch in the face and stab in the kidney even if both are unacceptable violence. It is, in my very biased view, unseemly to say the least to compare the magnitude of transgressions within many discussions of sexual misconduct, but when the allegations are this far apart there doesn't need to be a lot of calculus or value judgements made to see how not equivalent they are.
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I really agree. Though your comparisons sound harsh, they deserve to be. Trump has explained himself the things he participated in, bragging about it.
 
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