Biden for President?

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It's not hypocritical to contest other members of one's party in primaries & caucuses and then go for unity in the general election against another party.

Why are you pretending not to know that?
 
theprestige said:
Her hypocrisy lies in complaining that Biden isn't acting to further Democratic unity, while she herself is acting against Democratic unity.
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That isn't what she is saying, though. The specific quote indicates her issue with using the term "unity" as a way to brush off possible legitimate criticisms within the party and try to get those people to "fall in line", as opposed to actually making steps to unify the party in substantive ways.
 
88% of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton in the general election, so there is a precedent for those people to stay within the party despite losing.
 
theprestige said:
Is it possible for you to restate this as a testable prediction?
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Assuming nothing wild happens by then to somehow knock Biden off of the ballots, exit polls and subsequent general population polls will show what percentage of Bernie supporters voted for Biden.

theprestige said:
Don't you think it's weird that the guy who's supposedly depressing voter turnout actually got enough voter turnout to win the nomination? Don't you think it's weird that the guy who's allegedly the energizing campaigner couldn't even energize enough votes to stay in the race?
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The only thing the Biden supporters ever had all along, which I'm sure you already know quite well by now so there's no point in asking as if you didn't:

"ELECTABLE!!!!!!"

Fear-mongering can be a very effective motivator, and hearing a claim repeated a lot can be very convincing to those who don't really look into it.
 
Delvo said:
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The only thing the Biden supporters ever had all along, which I'm sure you already know quite well by now so there's no point in asking as if you didn't:

"ELECTABLE!!!!!!"

Fear-mongering can be a very effective motivator, and hearing a claim repeated a lot can be very convincing to those who don't really look into it.
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The fear is the utter terror of four more years of Trump. If Biden spends the nxt fours years snoozing in a hammock in the Rose Garden, the nation will be better off. At least you can be sure that Biden will appoint responsible, competent professionals to run the government and comply with the laws, unlike the grifters Dear Leader has given us.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Political predictions are a fool's errand.
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Does that mean you think these claims are foolish?

SuburbanTurkey said:
The vast majority of these Bernie people will vote for Biden.
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SuburbanTurkey said:
The people threatening the kneecap the party are a vocal minority that don't have the power to carry out the threat.
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Don't you think it's weird to make political predictions, and then say such predictions are foolish?

What exactly are you looking for here?
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Testability.

If Biden loses in November, is there anything you think we could measure, to try to determine what factors contributed to his loss, and whether depressed turnout among Bernie Bros vs other progressives was one of those factors?

To be clear: I'm not asking you to prove your prediction ahead of the event. I'm asking you if there's any way you can think of to measure the event when it happens, and see if your prediction was accurate.

What is your testable prediction about disaffected progressives "kneecapping" the party? Give me an example and I'll return in kind.
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I haven't made any such prediction. Bernie Bros have been threatening this for some time. Now you're predicting that the majority of Bernie supporters will turn out for Biden. Come November, can you think of any way to test this?
 
Delvo said:
It's not hypocritical to contest other members of one's party in primaries & caucuses and then go for unity in the general election against another party.

Why are you pretending not to know that?
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I heard a new term for that sort of person today: Bidenista, one who may or may not have supported Biden in the primaries but is definitely in favor of unity in the general election against the other party. The term should be dripping with scorn when used, and be in the same post as a bunch of reasons why we shouldn't vote for the partys candidate.
 
wareyin said:
It is pretty glaring how many conservatives are and were practically begging for this match-up. Trump himself (a man not known for taking the hard way) has been clamoring to run against Sanders for both his elections.
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Who did he unlawfully attempt to use the powers of his office to get another country to dig dirt up on, Biden or Sanders?
 
Garb said:
That isn't what she is saying, though. The specific quote indicates her issue with using the term "unity" as a way to brush off possible legitimate criticisms within the party and try to get those people to "fall in line", as opposed to actually making steps to unify the party in substantive ways.
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Criticism, even legitimate, undermines unity. It weakens incumbents, discourages voters, and splits votes. Normally that's fine. But I get the impression that if ever there was an election year for leftists of all stripes to put aside their differences, support the incumbents, and fall in line with every possible vote at every possible level, it would be this year.

But maybe not. It really does seem like there's a bit of an existential debate happening on the left. One faction says the real problem is President Trump, and the party must band together to stop him above all else. The other faction says that the real problem isn't President Trump, it's center-left Democrats standing in the way of true progress.
 
Delvo said:
Assuming nothing wild happens by then to somehow knock Biden off of the ballots, exit polls and subsequent general population polls will show what percentage of Bernie supporters voted for Biden.

The only thing the Biden supporters ever had all along, which I'm sure you already know quite well by now so there's no point in asking as if you didn't:

"ELECTABLE!!!!!!"

Fear-mongering can be a very effective motivator, and hearing a claim repeated a lot can be very convincing to those who don't really look into it.
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Fear-mongering can also be very ineffective. Like when the Bernie Bros tried to frighten Democratic voters into picking their guy. How do you know if the fear-mongering worked in this case, or if it was some other factor?
 
wareyin said:
I heard a new term for that sort of person today: Bidenista, one who may or may not have supported Biden in the primaries but is definitely in favor of unity in the general election against the other party. The term should be dripping with scorn when used, and be in the same post as a bunch of reasons why we shouldn't vote for the partys candidate.
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I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly. You're saying that Democrats who preferred another candidate, but who are now advocating unified support for Biden against Trump, should be treated with a combination of scorn and arguments against voting for Biden?
 
Delvo said:
Assuming nothing wild happens by then to somehow knock Biden off of the ballots, exit polls and subsequent general population polls will show what percentage of Bernie supporters voted for Biden.

The only thing the Biden supporters ever had all along, which I'm sure you already know quite well by now so there's no point in asking as if you didn't:

"ELECTABLE!!!!!!"

Fear-mongering can be a very effective motivator, and hearing a claim repeated a lot can be very convincing to those who don't really look into it.
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He has policies democrats like.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Who did he unlawfully attempt to use the powers of his office to get another country to dig dirt up on, Biden or Sanders?
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True, he publicly asks for Sanders to be his opponent on one hand, and he actually breaks the law (and would have lost the Presidency if the Republicans in the Senate cared about the rule of law) to prevent running against Biden. Hmmm, gosh it's such a mystery which one he fears and which one he thinks will be easy to beat.
 
theprestige said:
I'm not sure I'm reading this correctly. You're saying that Democrats who preferred another candidate, but who are now advocating unified support for Biden against Trump, should be treated with a combination of scorn and arguments against voting for Biden?
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No, apologies for being unclear. I'm saying that is how they are being treated now, not that that's how they should be treated. For instance, Biden wasn't my first or second choice in the beginning, but now that Biden is the nominee I'm a "Bidenista" for calling for party unity.
 
theprestige said:
Does that mean you think these claims are foolish?




Don't you think it's weird to make political predictions, and then say such predictions are foolish?


Testability.

If Biden loses in November, is there anything you think we could measure, to try to determine what factors contributed to his loss, and whether depressed turnout among Bernie Bros vs other progressives was one of those factors?

To be clear: I'm not asking you to prove your prediction ahead of the event. I'm asking you if there's any way you can think of to measure the event when it happens, and see if your prediction was accurate.


I haven't made any such prediction. Bernie Bros have been threatening this for some time. Now you're predicting that the majority of Bernie supporters will turn out for Biden. Come November, can you think of any way to test this?
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Sure, this can be approximated by polling. Assuming the polls are conducted well and people don't lie, we can approximate how many Bernie primary supporters didn't vote for Biden in the general.

If Biden loses, it will likely be due to low voter turnout in general. That's my prediction.

My problem with prediction is that often these elections are won in the margins. It's difficult to really suss out which of many factors were the most significant.

Would lefties not voting for Biden be a significant factor or just part of the general background noise of third party voters?

This is something that gets discussed a lot, like the Bernie supporters that didn't vote for HRC in 2016. But if you point out that Bernie voters voted for HRC at higher rates than HRC voters supported Obama in 2008, you get all kinds of excuses.

It's hard to establish baselines. We know that some amount of people are going to vote third party in any generic election. How do you determine whether a certain factor was higher or lower than normal? In the case of Bernie supporters in 2016, they seemed to be pretty loyal to the party, but still got pinned with the blame for her loss. Is this rational or just scapegoating? Depends on who you ask.
 
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