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Biden for President?

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d4m10n said:
Are you saying (to a bunch of evidence-oriented self-identified skeptics) we're not supposed to be skeptical of certain sorts of factual claims when they come from a certain sort of accuser?
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Bias manifest in reversed standards depending on political affiliation is something a bunch of evidence-orientated self-identied skeptics will be mindful of.

And having had so many examples of this situation being a topic of discussion here, this particular bunch of evidence-orientated self-identied skeptic needs no introduction to the reasons why accusers should be taken seriously.

But if you want to examine the problems with a “what about attention seekers?” Then lets have it. For a start this seems to contain a claim in need of evidence itself - that the accuser in this case is an attention seeker.
 
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I'm unsure why "attention seeking" should be considered relevant at all here. Both false accusers and genuine accusers are seeking to direct public attention to their accusations, if generally for different reasons.

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d4m10n said:
I'm unsure why "attention seeking" should be considered relevant at all here. Both false accusers and genuine accusers are seeking to direct public attention to their accusations, if generally for different reasons.

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Well, that was what was being put forward in the chain of discussion you hopped in on.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Well, that was what was being put forward in the chain of discussion you hopped in on.
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People who accuse public figures are trying to get attention drawn to themselves and to their accusation, whether that accusation is true or false. You called "publicity seeking" a trope, as if slapping that label on what is happening tells us anything about whether any given public accusation is actually true or false.

Sideroxylon said:
But if you want to examine the problems with a “what about attention seekers?” Then lets have it. For a start this seems to contain a claim in need of evidence itself - that the accuser in this case is an attention seeker.
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Do you believe she doesn't want attention brought to herself and her highly salient (if true) claims?
 
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d4m10n said:
I'm unsure why "attention seeking" should be considered relevant at all here. Both false accusers and genuine accusers are seeking to direct public attention to their accusations, if generally for different reasons.
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I'm going to go ahead and say that nowhere in English as she is spoke does anyone ever use "attention seeking" to describe legitimate attempts to direct attention to some real issue, as opposed to attempts to direct attention to oneself through spuriouis claims.

Anyone registering uncertainty about how this figure of speech is actually used should probably register uncertainty about their grasp of the English language in general.
 
"For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you've got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she's talking about is real," said Biden during the confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who faced accusations that as a teenager he had assaulted a woman at a party.

https://reason.com/2020/03/26/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-me-too-believe-women/
 
theprestige said:
I'm going to go ahead and say that nowhere in English as she is spoke does anyone ever use "attention seeking" to describe legitimate attempts to direct attention to some real issue, as opposed to attempts to direct attention to oneself through spuriouis claims.

Anyone registering uncertainty about how this figure of speech is actually used should probably register uncertainty about their grasp of the English language in general.
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Of course people do that. You just choose to take it negatively
 
theprestige said:
I'm going to go ahead and say that nowhere in English as she is spoke does anyone ever use "attention seeking" to describe legitimate attempts to direct attention to some real issue...
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Okay, so by "attention seeking" you guys mean pathological attention seeking in particular?

Okay, so how can you tell whether someone is (A) seeking public attention in the sense of drawing attention to an important issue or (B) seeking public attention in the sense of pretending to be drawing attention to an important issue, which turns out to be a fabulation?
 
d4m10n said:
Okay, so by "attention seeking" you guys mean pathological attention seeking in particular?
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Haha, nope. Are you really this uncertain about how English is spoken, day to day?

Okay, so how can you tell whether someone is (A) seeking public attention in the sense of drawing attention to an important issue or (B) seeking public attention in the sense of pretending to be drawing attention to an important issue, which turns out to be a fabulation?
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Irrelevant. Whether or not the claim is justified is entirely separate from your struggle to understand the nature and scope of the claim.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Strong enthusiasm for Biden lowest for Democratic candidate in 20 years.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1244112969027420161

Seems we are going to find out if an empty suit with a D stapled to it could beat Trump, because not even Biden's own supporters like him that much.
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It's kind of a weird time. The conventional wisdom is that more than half the country hates Orange Man so much that they'll vote for literally anyone else who puts their name forward for consideration. A progressive, like Bernie? Sure! A DINO like Bloomberg? Sure! A... whatever-the-hell Joe Biden is? Sure! Just put someone - anyone - out there opposite Trump, and we'll see the Real Ultimate Power of the Popular Vote.

So much for the conventional wisdom.
 
d4m10n said:
Okay, so how can you tell whether someone is (A) seeking public attention in the sense of drawing attention to an important issue or (B) seeking public attention in the sense of pretending to be drawing attention to an important issue, which turns out to be a fabulation?
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"A" when it's a member of my party and "B" when it's a member of the other party, of course.
 
theprestige said:
Whether or not the claim is justified is entirely separate from your struggle to understand the nature and scope of the claim.
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I'd have to ask Skeptic Ginger to be sure what "attention seeking" means in this context, but apparently it means something more than seeking attention.

ETA: Correction, she said publicity not attention.

ETA2: Any chance you can paraphrase the nature and scope of the claim at hand here? I'd say it's something along the lines of "Some women want attention so much they will flagrantly lie to get it." At least I think that is the trope we're talking about.
 
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d4m10n said:
People who accuse public figures are trying to get attention drawn to themselves and to their accusation, whether that accusation is true or false. You called "publicity seeking" a trope, as if slapping that label on what is happening tells us anything about whether any given public accusation is actually true or false.



Do you believe she doesn't want attention brought to herself and her highly salient (if true) claims?
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Some highly problematic conflation of the contextual meaning of the expression “attention seeker” away from the very obvious insinuation of insincerity about the claims. Lets drop the Socratic dialectic and make the point.
 
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d4m10n said:
I'd have to ask Skeptic Ginger to be sure what "attention seeking" means in this context, but apparently it means something more than seeking attention.

ETA: Correction, she said publicity not attention.

ETA2: Any chance you can paraphrase the nature and scope of the claim at hand here? I'd say it's something along the lines of "Some women want attention so much they will flagrantly lie to get it." At least I think that is the trope we're talking about.
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Lol
 
d4m10n said:
I'd have to ask Skeptic Ginger to be sure what "attention seeking" means in this context, but apparently it means something more than seeking attention.

ETA: Correction, she said publicity not attention.

ETA2: Any chance you can paraphrase the nature and scope of the claim at hand here? I'd say it's something along the lines of "Some women want attention so much they will flagrantly lie to get it." At least I think that is the trope we're talking about.
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You seem to have figured it out just fine. If you're still uncertain at this point, then I'm not sure what extra effort will be necessary to give you the confidence to hold up your end of the debate, and I'm not motivated to find out. Good luck!
 
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