Biden for President?

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Agreed. When Trump has promoted violence, he's never had anyone being aggressively in his face and he's encouraged others to do it.

I said myself that Trump doesn't do it face to face, but you're wrong that Trump doesn't himself talk about being physically violent: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/23/politics/donald-trump-nevada-rally-punch/index.html

"I'd like to punch him in the face," Trump said, remarking that a man disrupting his rally was escorted out with a smile on his face.
 
Okay, let's get into it. Apologies for the length.

I'm 42 years old and black - My grandfather was born in 1900, in North Carolina. How long do you think he waited to vote? Just so you know, it was decades. *Every* election, I went with him every election to see him vote. It was drilled into me that people waited, marched, and were killed trying to vote, so you do *not* let a 3long line, or a white person harassing you, stop you. And I'll say, straight up, that I've talked to younger black people - college age, that spent 2016 rejecting that message, that, this year, are saying "Oh. Guess I should've listened." But a few things about the elders.

The old black folks especially, lean conservative. I'm not joking when I say Louis Farrakhan is far right socially. And if you think that they know nothing about politics, you're often wrong. Where they live, the ones most likely to organize rides to the polls, who organize voter registration drives, are the ones that host and run the local DNC headquarters, located in the basement of their churches. So first, when Sanders badmouths "the establishment", he's badmouthing them.

Second - now think about it. Do you really think they love Biden, and hate Sanders? Well, some will, because, you know, antisemitism. But most will not trust white people to do the right thing by them, period. And the white people around them have never given them any reason to do so. But they know he's been a Dem for a long time. They know he was standing next to Obama, when Obama was getting things done.

And they don't worry about Anita Hill, because they liked Thomas at first too, until he turned out to hate civil rights. They don't care if he worked with segregationists, because some of them worked for straight-out Klansmen! Many have stories of white people they thought were friends, that they saw murder a black guy for "being uppity", or chanting "******* go home" during integration. Hell, I've got similar stories, and I was born post Civil Rights Movement. And they don't care about the Crime Bill, because "Violence was out of control, something had to be done!".

Biden's a lifelong Dem, who stood with Obama, only to his side and a step or two behind. When Obama told him to work on something with the Senate, he did it. That doesn't mean "trust him", but it stands for something to hope for.

Sanders? As much as this simple argument makes the Bernie Stans howl and rage, they know he's not a Democrat. They know he seriously considered primarying Obama in 2012. For many of them, that's the end of the matter.

I saw a lot - *a lot* - of college-age voters reporting 2-3 hour long lines, and who are new to the political process, who have no clue at all how it works, who saw those lines and said "no way can I stand there for that long" and simply didn't bother. Some of them *couldn't* bother, because they had to go to work or whatever, and I can't really fault anyone in that crowd. It sucks, I get it. But there were also quite a few that just gave up. And that I don't respect, even if I can understand it. My mother stood in line longer than that, back when she was pregnant with me.

But I've got to say, how are you in college and it's your first time at a voting booth? How did their parents not drag them along when they went to vote? Or did they just not vote at all? Someone, or really several people, failed them in this regard. And yes, some of them will lean right at first, but college has a way of getting rid of prejudice against people of other races, or "SJWs", or whatever asinine term they use for "people who have a sense of empathy".

It's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for civil rights - including marching with Martin Luther King - doesn't seem to count.
 
What pig? Xjx seem to indicate that he didn't support Trump just yesterday.

Yeah almost nobody admits to supporting Trump, they'll just make every effort to make criticizing him difficult.

We have like... maybe 1 or 2 actual Trump "supporters" on this board and a dozen more "I'm not saying I support Trump I'm just going to variously argue, stall, shut down, or be a total tosspot in any discussion that criticizes him."

Trump has an amazing support base for someone that almost literally nobody likes.

Trolls don't have fans, but they do have people running defense for them.
 
It's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for civil rights - including marching with Martin Luther King - doesn't seem to count.


Robert C. Byrd also had a long history of fighting for civil rights, just with a really, really troublesome origin story. While Sanders was marching with Dr. King, Byrd was probably filibustering the civil rights act. Still, he became a staunch NAACP ally even though his state was blizzard white and you would think this would make him vulnerable.

Which would you rather have fighting for you? The ex-Klansman with a history of getting results and help for one of the poorest states in the union while being a loyal party man who supported the NAACP to his political peril, or the man pure in all things big and small that has mostly just been a bit of a gadfly?
 
Robert C. Byrd also had a long history of fighting for civil rights, just with a really, really troublesome origin story. While Sanders was marching with Dr. King, Byrd was probably filibustering the civil rights act. Still, he became a staunch NAACP ally even though his state was blizzard white and you would think this would make him vulnerable.

Which would you rather have fighting for you? The ex-Klansman with a history of getting results and help for one of the poorest states in the union while being a loyal party man who supported the NAACP to his political peril, or the man pure in all things big and small that has mostly just been a bit of a gadfly?

The choice right now is between Sanders and Biden. Mumbles wrote a post in which he said that one reason black people support Biden over Sanders is that Biden was seen standing next to Obama. I'm saying that it's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for racial equality - including at the time when doing so could get you shot - doesn't seem to have the same cache.

I can understand why - Biden's relationship with Obama is both more recent and more visible. But I don't think that's the best way to judge these things.
 
The choice right now is between Sanders and Biden. Mumbles wrote a post in which he said that one reason black people support Biden over Sanders is that Biden was seen standing next to Obama. I'm saying that it's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for racial equality - including at the time when doing so could get you shot - doesn't seem to have the same cache.

I can understand why - Biden's relationship with Obama is both more recent and more visible. But I don't think that's the best way to judge these things.

Biden really has benefited from his close association with Obama. It's a bit strange, as Biden was originally selected as VP as an overture to the more conservative, and frankly, more racially uncomfortable portions of the party that might be skittish on Obama.

Here's how the selection was covered at the time: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/us/politics/24biden.html

Biden was selected as a reassurance to those that were afraid that Obama was too progressive and naive. An olive branch to the more conservative parts of the party. There's no reason to believe he will even be as progressive as Obama was.
 
What pig? Xjx seem to indicate that he didn't support Trump just yesterday.

Yeah almost nobody admits to supporting Trump, they'll just make every effort to make criticizing him difficult.

We have like... maybe 1 or 2 actual Trump "supporters" on this board and a dozen more "I'm not saying I support Trump I'm just going to variously argue, stall, shut down, or be a total tosspot in any discussion that criticizes him."

Trump has an amazing support base for someone that almost literally nobody likes.

Trolls don't have fans, but they do have people running defense for them.

To be fair to xjx, here is what he said:

I'm already going to vote for Biden (or even Sanders if it came to it) because just about anyone would be better than Trump.

I don't think it's accurate (or fair) to say that someone is part of a "support base" for Trump when that person has plainly said they're planning to vote against him because anyone else is better. He may be stretching a little to throw some shade on Biden for Biden's little outburst; but that doesn't make him a troll, it makes him an example of the moderate voter, the man in the middle with a differing opinion on detail, that Biden is going to need to beat Trump.
 
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I don't think it's accurate (or fair) to say that someone is part of a "support base" for Trump when that person has plainly said they're planning to vote against him because anyone else is better

"Trump supporter" is a generic insult on this board, used to demarcate the in-group/out-group lines. You disagree with the Huffington Post?!?! You're a "Trump supporter."
 
Really bucks the trend of the VP slot being a dead end. No way Biden would be a thing without the Obama boost.
What "trend"? Presidential elections are so rare (especially ones with a vice president attempting to run as president) that you can't really establish a "trend" either way.
 
Really bucks the trend of the VP slot being a dead end. No way Biden would be a thing without the Obama boost.

Is it a trend? Seems like an awful lot of them run for president and get at least nominated. Unless I'm missing something I can't think of a remotely recent vice president that made an at all serious run for the Presidency and didn't get at least nominated.
 
I'm saying that it's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for racial equality - including at the time when doing so could get you shot - doesn't seem to have the same cache.
LOL, and when did this happen? At the time in US history that exists only in your imagination.

Off to google he goes: Queries civil rights activists shot, sees SPLC website, "good enough," he thinks to himself.

"See, this list of 5 black people who the SPLC says were killed for fighting for racial equality in the South is proof I was right!" Hyperlinks to SPLC and no one clicks on it.


I can understand why - Biden's relationship with Obama is both more recent and more visible. But I don't think that's the best way to judge these things.
Yet another glaring example of, "it's a shame black people aren't like white people."
 
In both 2000 and 1988 the incumbent VP won the nomination and the plurality of popular votes.

ETA: Fixed year.

Yeah, I was thinking about Sec. of State being considered a dead-end. VP for a popular president seems like a good setup to running, at least historically speaking. Mea culpa.

It's a bit strange because the VP is often selected as a foil to the president in order to expand the ticket's appeal. Voting for the VP because you liked the president is a good way to get someone not very much alike.
 
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One might argue that the "VP is a dead-end position" concept started with Dan Quayle. Before that, I think it was generally in the mix.
 
Yeah, thing is - in Michigan this year, they opened up absentee ballots to individuals of all ages and removed any disability or travel requirements. As I mentioned previously, I don't know how specifically this was implemented; whether, for example, this change was widely publicized and clearly known to the public or quietly announced in places most people just gloss over. Similarly I don't know what sort of wait or inconvenience would have been necessary to drop off said ballots. But I do know that in my particular state there is zero line, plentiful drop off points, and zero wait (barring parking issues). And I suspect that is the most probable case in Michigan as well.

Well, not so much, as this link shows:

https://twitter.com/AbshirDSM/status/1237536785804054528

Another part is that, as I said, a lot of these kids have never voted before, or even been brought along with their parents to vote. They don't know much about registering, that they can vote early, Michigan's criteria for removing them from voting rolls, where to see a sample ballot, or really, anything. These kids show up, often an hour before their job, spot an hours-long line, and say "Well, I won't vote then" and leave. Contrast to the black Texan in the replies who waited *8* hours to vote, and then went to work night shift. He was ready to wait, because he knew what was needed, and what people were trying to pull. Or organizations like Black Lives Matter, which has no named "Leaders" intentionally, because they learned what happened to MLK Jr.Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers...really, the list could go on.

These kids simply were never taught, they were possibly told "And then LBJ signed the voting Rights Act, and everyone could vote. Yay!" They didn't even know there were "unknown unknowns", and they had no real way to prepare for these messes.

The choice right now is between Sanders and Biden. Mumbles wrote a post in which he said that one reason black people support Biden over Sanders is that Biden was seen standing next to Obama. I'm saying that it's a shame that Sanders' long history of fighting for racial equality - including at the time when doing so could get you shot - doesn't seem to have the same cache.

I can understand why - Biden's relationship with Obama is both more recent and more visible. But I don't think that's the best way to judge these things.

Like I said, the fact that he's been a Dem for decades was a massive factor - probably more important than any other. They basically think the Dems are, at worst, negligent in all but a very few cases. Anything else risks malicious white supremacism. And looking at the past 50 years or so, they're correct to think so.

Gotta Laugh at the idea that Obama "rigged" the election by getting Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar to endorse Biden, though. Two people that were weakest in many of the areas where Biden's crushing Sanders the hardest. Right.
 
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