Biden for President?

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SuburbanTurkey said:
It is my sincere hope that the anti-Trump animus is going to be enough to run up a strong win for the Democratic party, because Biden seems weak.
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In the long run, the party, and the country, needs Biden to lose. The electability myth has already been insanely pervasive without any examples of it actually ever being right; give it one single example when it finally coincidentally actually was right (against the most incompetent, evil, and unpopular excuse for a "President" ever), and it'll get dug in even deeper. And we have no chance of changing the course the country has been on for decades without first getting that myth out of the way.

Since that myth's spell on people hasn't broken yet in the face of its 100% failure rate so far, I don't know how many more failures it will take, but it must be done. Yes, a Biden loss in the general election would mean Trump sticking around a bit longer, but Biden's Presidency wouldn't be much different anyway, and I'm looking over a longer time-frame than that. For the good of the country, the "just give up lefties only the right can ever possibly win" myth needs to die, and Biden winning would only give it more life.
 
Delvo said:
In the long run, the party, and the country, needs Biden to lose.
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Yes, because any judges that Trump happens to nominate will automatically disappear once the progressives take over.

And all the environmental harm that is occurring will magically vanish once the progressive take over.
Yes, a Biden loss in the general election would mean Trump sticking around a bit longer, but Biden's Presidency wouldn't be much different anyway,
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What a completely foolish statement. Completely baffling. The fact that a poster can't see the difference between a moderate democrat like Biden and Trump shows just how totally out of touch some BernieBros can be.

Biden would not nominate hard-right judges, which would give the republicans even more ability to corrupt the political system in the future (and putting abortion rights at risk).

Biden would not engage in any more environmental and/or financial deregulation.

Biden would reverse various racist policies (such as the border wall, and locking up children in cages)

Sure, you're not going to get "BernieCare", but you're going to end up with a president who is at least going to improve the lives of millions of Americans.

Bernie or Busters need to re-evaluate their life choices.

And did it ever occur to you that one of the reasons Biden is as popular as he is is not just "electibilty", but because they actually like his candidacy? The whole "BernieCare" is not as popular as you seem to think, and Sanders has never made much inroads with the African American community.
 
calebprime said:
Oh. I saw that here and stupidly assumed it had been vetted by someone here instead of it being a cheap fake.

It did influence me, so now I can forget I ever saw it.
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See how easy disinformation has been made to work? It's insane.

And either applecorped and the other stooge didn't bother to check whether the video was genuine, didn't care, or deliberately put it up as a lie.
 
d4m10n said:
I've been seeing a lot more experts in geriatric neurophysiology and degenerative diseases in my timeline than usual, and they all agree: Only Bernie can save us from the other two septuagenarians.
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But as a person who can spell cardiologist I say beware of Bernie’s heart.
 
Belz... said:
You think it's a joke? Clinton lost because not enough Democrats decided to vote, moreso than Republicans. A boring candidate on the Democratic side might just lull GOP voters into complacency.

Considering how close the last election was, it's no joke. The opposition being inspired to vote or not matters.
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Let's just note here that a major factor in Clinton's loss was her smug certainty that she would win, supported by most polls. People who would have voted for Clinton decided not to stand in line in the cold and rain and snow in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania because they thought their votes weren't needed. If she had ended every speech with "I need every vote! I need your vote!," that might have made a difference. Nobody will make that mistake this time around.
 
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Delvo said:
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Since that myth's spell on people hasn't broken yet in the face of its 100% failure rate so far, I don't know how many more failures it will take, but it must be done. Yes, a Biden loss in the general election would mean Trump sticking around a bit longer, but Biden's Presidency wouldn't be much different anyway, and I'm looking over a longer time-frame than that. For the good of the country, the "just give up lefties only the right can ever possibly win" myth needs to die, and Biden winning would only give it more life.
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It's genuinely crazy to imagine there's no difference between Biden and Trump. Biden would not lead massive social change. But he would appoint competent, honest people to lead the executive departments, he would strengthen our ties with our allies, he would not pander to Putin and other foreign dictators, he would value scientifc evidence about global warming and other issues, and he would appoint responsible, mainstream judges to the federal courts. That's plenty of reason to vote for him.
 
Delvo said:
In the long run, the party, and the country, needs Biden to lose. The electability myth has already been insanely pervasive without any examples of it actually ever being right; give it one single example when it finally coincidentally actually was right (against the most incompetent, evil, and unpopular excuse for a "President" ever), and it'll get dug in even deeper. And we have no chance of changing the course the country has been on for decades without first getting that myth out of the way.

Since that myth's spell on people hasn't broken yet in the face of its 100% failure rate so far, I don't know how many more failures it will take, but it must be done. Yes, a Biden loss in the general election would mean Trump sticking around a bit longer, but Biden's Presidency wouldn't be much different anyway, and I'm looking over a longer time-frame than that. For the good of the country, the "just give up lefties only the right can ever possibly win" myth needs to die, and Biden winning would only give it more life.
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"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”

Seriously- I get it. Ideologically, my preference would have been Bernie, or Liz Warren. But it's not going to happen; and the idea that Biden would be as bad as a Trump now empowered by beating impeachment and winning re-election (with followers just as empowered) is just pouting nonsense. The change will come- the programs Bernie wants (as do I) will have their day- but that change is going to have to be realistically incremental; inertia is a thing in politics as well as physics, and it takes time as well as brute shouting to change a country's direction. Voting for Trump because, gosh, Joe's just as bad and what's the difference, is (for the reasons Segnosaur lists, especially the future SC judges who will end up having the final say over whether the change will be allowed to stand) just a way to ensure that the things you want today are things your children and grandchildren will still be hoping for tomorrow. You say you're "looking over a longer time-frame than" Trump's victory in the next election; your actual effect would be to extend the disaster that would be for your own hopes.
 
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Belz... said:
Talk about abandoning pragmatism for ideology.
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I don't want to speak for Delvo, but I'm not a left-wing accelerationist. A Biden win is preferable to a Trump re-election, for the obvious reasons.

I don't think Trump is some anomaly that will simply go away. Right wing reactionary politics are here to stay. Trump is a manifestation of a festering wound in the political system. Centrists want to paper over these wounds with civility and a return to normalcy, but that won't actually address any of the root causes.

I very much worry that a Biden presidency will do little to address the root causes of our current populist outrage. There is a lot of anger in the air and there needs to be healthy response to it, otherwise the right will just weaponize it as they have repeatedly throughout history.

I very much fear that a Biden presidency would just be a brief interregnum between reactionary right reigns.
 
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Bob001 said:
Let's just note here that a major factor in Clinton's loss was her smug certainty that she would win, supported by most polls. People who would have voted for Clinton decided not to stand in line in the cold and rain and snow in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania because they thought their votes weren't needed. If she had ended every speech with "I need every vote! I need your vote!," that might have made a difference. Nobody will make that mistake this time around.
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Cold and rain and snow got nothing on pandemic.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Some here would have us believe that you can refer to people directly instead of roundabout imputation, so that if they would not have you believe that and what you believe they would have you believe is just an unusually passive-aggressive strawman they can correct you to your face.
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My goodness! That's quite the overreaction to my saying "some here" instead of listing every single person by name! And you were still able to "correct (me) to my face" so apparently were weren't confused by the use of "some".

But as it happens, yes, I would have you believe that the establishment is exactly that scared of Sanders. I really don't know why, but everything he's done has been cast in the most negative light possible, and everything Biden's done has been rainbows and unicorns.
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That's the kind of hyperbolic claim that exposes your extreme bias and why you push the "dementia" rumor.
 
d4m10n said:
Cold and rain and snow got nothing on pandemic.
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It would be pretty ironic if Trump, who has long bragged about a strong economy that wasn't due to his actions, was brought low by a pandemic-related market crash that is also not really his doing.

Maybe we do just live in a simulation, this all seems very scripted.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
It would be pretty ironic if Trump, who has long bragged about a strong economy that wasn't due to his actions, was brought low by a pandemic-related market crash that is also not really his doing.

Maybe we do just live in a simulation, this all seems very scripted.
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Bush took a pretty big hit from his reaction to Katrina.
And Trump is on record often enough taking credit for our supposedly strong economy that hitting him with some blame for things being off right now is hardly uncalled for.
 
Delvo said:
You calling them preposterous for doing it does not stop them from doing it.
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And you're claiming that's what they're doing does not make it so.

You'd rather believe that all those former (now) 12 candidates are in a massive conspiracy to install a man with dementia in the WH rather than accept they just prefer him to Sanders.

Maybe that's what you need to believe in order to excuse away the fact that Sanders is not doing as well as you want.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I very much worry that a Biden presidency will do little to address the root causes of our current populist outrage. There is a lot of anger in the air and there needs to be healthy response to it, otherwise the right will just weaponize it as they have repeatedly throughout history.
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And what makes you think Sanders would be any better at addressing the "root causes of our current populist outrage"? Does he have some sort of magic wand to make people magically change their attitudes?

The most likely case of a Sanders victory is not some sort of universal harmony, but even more reactionary attitudes from the republican side.
 
turingtest said:
"It became necessary to destroy the town to save it.”

Seriously- I get it. Ideologically, my preference would have been Bernie, or Liz Warren. But it's not going to happen; and the idea that Biden would be as bad as a Trump now empowered by beating impeachment and winning re-election (with followers just as empowered) is just pouting nonsense. The change will come- the programs Bernie wants (as do I) will have their day- but that change is going to have to be realistically incremental; inertia is a thing in politics as well as physics, and it takes time as well as brute shouting to change a country's direction. Voting for Trump because, gosh, Joe's just as bad and what's the difference, is (for the reasons Segnosaur lists, especially the future SC judges who will end up having the final say over whether the change will be allowed to stand) just a way to ensure that the things you want today are things your children and grandchildren will still be hoping for tomorrow. You say you're "looking over a longer time-frame than" Trump's victory in the next election; your actual effect would be to extend the disaster that would be for your own hopes.
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Bingo! The impatience by Bernie and fans to effect radical change is scary to a good many Americans. Imposing purity tests based on ideology alone is counterproductive, unless one can *impose* it. Where choice exists, realism is necessary in order to not frighten too many voters whose support is crucial.

Clinton was too complacent. Now Bernie is too eager. Both modes are suicidal. In this perilous time prudence must be the watchword.
 
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