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Beyond Apollo conspiracies

theprestige said:
So, LGR, your conspiracy theory in this thread is that not only was the Apollo Project a hoax, but the missions were also esoteric allegories, in the tradition of The Alchemical Journey of Christian Rozenkreutz?
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Exactly....and the garland of the trumpet was set on fire.....and all that.
 
steve s said:
I saw that show. The astronauts only wore the black rubber gloves during liftoff. Those gloves were never worn in the vacuum of space. They needed the dexterity of the rubber gloves to flip switches and such. The gloves that they wore on the moon were much too cumbersome to wear in the capsule.

Here's a photo of the black rubber ones...
http://media.photobucket.com/image/apollo astronauts boarding the saturn v/loaloauk/c-5.jpg

Steve S
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Actually what you see in that photo is the internal pressure suit glove. Here's a better image from my website:

gloves.jpg


See those big bulky knuckles? They are called constant volume joints, and when you bend your hands, these joints, as the name implies, keep the same volume throughout the movement. It is the change in volume of the joints in ordinary gloves that make them hard to bend, with the volume the same in these gloves, they are more flexible when pressurised. The gloves are far from just simple rubber gloves, they are in fact highly engineered peices of equipment.

They are also the gloves that were worn on the lunar surface. About now someone is thinking, "But I've seen photos of the ones they had on on the lunar surface and they were white, how can they be the same gloves?" The answer is actually pretty simple. The white gloves are beta cloth over-gloves that were worn to protect the black pressure suit gloves which were underneath, hence the white gloves in the photos. This also explains the oft misunderstand occurance where Armstrong and Aldrin opened the LM door and threw out their PLSS, gloves and boots before launch from the lunar surface. Many have been confused by that, after all how could they still be pressurised without gloves and boots right? The answer, they threw out the white over-gloves and boots while still wearing the internal pressure ones (which we see in the photo above and quite obviously aren't on the lunar surface.).

Now the program spoken of was The Truth Behind the Moon Landings done by the Discovery Channel and Zig Zag Productions. The man that did the vaccum experiment was the late Ralph René. The biggest flaw in his presentation where that he used a standard linesman glove, not a properly engineered Apollo glove, in fact he claimed that there was no special engineering in the Apollo glove, which as I have shown above was totally wrong. The other major flaw was that he evacuated the case meaning that there was a 14.6 psi pressure difference between the inside of the glove and the inside of the case. The Apollo gloves were only pressurised to 3.8 psi, just 26% the pressure difference that Ralph was using.

Jay Windley was also on the show (he did all the imagary with the Hassleblad out in the desert) however the producers unfortunately didn't tell him what they had discussed with Ralph so he wasn't able to rebut it on the show itself.

Edit to Add: I should also add that even with the CVJs and lower pressure, the gloves were not exactly easy to use, in fact the Astronauts themselves commented on how tiring it was, for instance from the Apollo 17 ALSJ:

124:14:23 Cernan: Okay. Give me a chance to turn around and look. Okay. White dots are out; all the white dots. Okay, they're all out here. Boy, does this feel good to get soft suits. Oh, my hands.

[Cernan - "Your hands just get so tired and sore, both from the work of squeezing your gloves around things all day and from the constant chafing. I wound up with blisters all over my hands, particularly between the thumb and the forefinger."]
 
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Good post on the gloves PhantomWolf. I was goint to post something similar and refer readers to JayUtahs Clavius Website page on the Space Suits
 
What is it with conspiracy theorists? For all their bravado about "asking questions" and "not being sheep", they all seem to be utterly closed off to criticism, and unfailingly resort to insults and deregatory language when their ideas are challenged.
 
I don't think your talents are wasted here. Just one day and 67 -- well, 68 now -- bites.
That's pretty good fishing.
 
I'd love to see one of these Hoax believers explain the lighting set-up in my avatar.
 
jaydeehess said:
You do realise that conspiracists are quite averse to answering any question with specifics?
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Let's not be hasty. LGR started this thread with the stated intention of discussing esoteric allegories in the Apollo 13 narrative. Why wouldn't they want to discuss it?

LGR, with his mystical view of the world may however deem you worthy of a primer on the first questions though.
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I certainly hope so; if they don't want to discuss it, starting the thread seems pretty silly.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
What is it with conspiracy theorists? For all their bravado about "asking questions" and "not being sheep", they all seem to be utterly closed off to criticism, and unfailingly resort to insults and deregatory language when their ideas are challenged.
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AGain, and I'm completely serious, I'm convinced that it has nothing to do with a genuine quest for truth. It is about finding a reason to feel smarter than everyone else.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
What is it with conspiracy theorists? For all their bravado about "asking questions" and "not being sheep", they all seem to be utterly closed off to criticism, and unfailingly resort to insults and deregatory language when their ideas are challenged.
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Foster Zygote said:
AGain, and I'm completely serious, I'm convinced that it has nothing to do with a genuine quest for truth. It is about finding a reason to feel smarter than everyone else.
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And... the fact that if they actually address questions, their little fifteen minutes of attention will be over in fifteen minutes. This way, they keep the spotlight on their self-perceived brilliance a little longer.

As with most LGR threads, it takes about five pages to get to his point. In this case it probably goes something like, .... It's clear. 13 was chosen for the mission because the 13th letter of the ancient Hooby Gooby languague was Gwaka, and Gwaka, as was recently discovered by Hans Firkenpoef was carved on ancient tablets in the Namib, and has been roughly translated to mean "Hey, let's wait 1700 years and then fake a Holocaust."
 
Foster Zygote said:
Most conspiracy theorists seem to have a need to believe that they are among a very few who are smart enough to see the truth. It's simply about maintaining that egotistical fantasy. I once watched a guy explain why the lunar missions must be a hoax because the astronauts couldn't move in their suits in a vacuum. He produced a sealed glass box with an industrial rubber glove fitted at one end and a hose fitting at the other. Using a vacuum pump he proceeded to evacuate the air from the box, then inserted his hand in the glove to show that it was so stiff that it would be virtually impossible to move one's fingers while wearing it. The major flaw with his demonstration was that he had a pressure differential of almost 15 psi between the inside and outside of the glove. In reality, the A7L suits used in the Apollo missions were pressurized to only 3.7 psi. Couple this with the fact that the gloves were specifically designed to work while pressurized and not simply some cheap, heavy-duty rubber gloves, and his argument is complete crap. Yet I still occasionally see it mentioned as proof of a hoax.
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You're speaking of Ralph Rene, of Trailer Park, Indiana. He's dead now. Probably not dead enough. I met him once.
 
Here AC Clarke covertly boasts of his script writing contributions to NASA

The Apollo 13 mission, however, does have an uncanny connection with 2001. When the computer HAL, reported the "failure" of the AE 35 Unit, the phrase he used was "Sorry to interrupt the festivities, but we have a problem."
Well, the Apollo 13 command module was named Odyssey and the crew had just concluded a TB broadcast with the movie's famous Zarathustra theme when an oxygen tank exploded. Their first words back to Earth were "Houston, we've had a problem."
By brilliant improvisation - using the lunar module as a "lifeboat" - the astronauts were brought safely home aboard Odyssey. When NASA administrator Tom Paine sent me the report of the mission, he wrote on the cover: "Just as you always said it would be, Arthur."
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There before him, a glittering toy no Star-Child could resist, floated the planet Earth with all its peoples.

He had returned in time. Down there on that crowded globe, the alarms would be flashing across the radar screeens, the great tracking telescopes would be searching the skies - and history as men knew it would be drawing to a close.

A thousand miles below, he became aware that a slumbering cargo of death had awoken, and was stirring sluggishly in its orbit. The feeble energies it contained were no possible menace to him, but he preferred a cleaner sky. He put forth his will, and the circling megatons flowered in a silent detonation that brought a brief, alse dawn to half the sleeping globe.
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What is it with Ameriguns and their fascination with blowing things up?
 
You're going to need to spell out what "boast" you're seeing a little better.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Here AC Clarke covertly boasts of his script writing contributions to NASA


What is it with Ameriguns and their fascination with blowing things up?
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yeeesss that famous Amerigun author AC Clarke

you really are a complete smmeeeee heeeee arent ya LGR
:D
 
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