Merged Ben Carson: Prisons prove being gay is a choice

[xjx388]

I think Carson is being a little simplistic here. I think sexual behavior is entirely too complex to boil it down to "its a choice." In some situations, homosexual behaviors may indeed be a choice but that doesn't "prove" it's always a choice. I wish conservatives would back off this issue because it's a clear case where their religious ideas are clouding their politics. They need to learn that sexual behavior is not a proper area for government to legislate about; when it comes to sexuality, each person in a free society should be free to choose what they want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

 

[tsig]

There's an easier experiment he can try. He could demonstrate the possibility by choosing to be gay himself for a month or so.

Yes, I wonder when he made the decision to be heterosexual and did he do any comparison shopping before he chose.

 

[Cainkane1]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/ben-carson-prisons-gay-choice/index.html


I wonder what his definition of gay is? Maybe it is the same as the bigots who subscribe to the "one drop rule" when trying to decide who is black?


I wasn't thinking of any of those things each time I got married. Where the hell is this guy form anyway? Must be dark under that rock. To be fair, he may have been misquoted or the reporter just selected what sounded good.

Ranb

Theres a difference between doing gay sex and being gay. In prison its either no sex or gay sex.

 

[Olowkow]

Well, Doctor Ben has learned his lesson and won't talk about gay marriage any more.

What's this lesson he's learned? Not to do a taped interview on "certain networks".

Famed neurosurgeon Ben Carson said Wednesday that he would no longer be talking about gay marriage because, in his view, he was taken out of context by "liberal press" when he claimed that prisons prove that being gay isn't a choice.

“First of all, it was a 25-minute interview, they chopped -- and you see what part they emphasized. We talked about some really important things, none of that was brought up. But, I did learn something very important, for certain networks, never do a pre-taped interview," he said on the Sean Hannity radio show.

Out of context? Pre-taped? Liberal press? So why apologize if you were taken out of context by liberal meanies??

Carson later apologized, stating that he did "not pretend to know how every individual came to their sexual orientation."

I'm guessing he is unaware that just about everybody has their own pocket video recording machine these days. It's unbelievable how these presidential hopefuls come running back to their mommy Fox News to whine when they make fools of themselves.

 

[dudalb]

I think Carson is being a little simplistic here. I think sexual behavior is entirely too complex to boil it down to "its a choice." In some situations, homosexual behaviors may indeed be a choice but that doesn't "prove" it's always a choice. I wish conservatives would back off this issue because it's a clear case where their religious ideas are clouding their politics. They need to learn that sexual behavior is not a proper area for government to legislate about; when it comes to sexuality, each person in a free society should be free to choose what they want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone.

It;s not that simple.
The whole Gay Marraige controversy shows that.
IMHO the solution is that the Government should get out of the Marraige business all together and just have "Civil Unions" and leave marriage to the churches,but that will never happen.

 

[That19Guy]

Here's what always really blows my mind about the "gay is a choice" argument. In order for something to be a sinful choice (as the religious right contend), it has to hold some dark, forbidden appeal in the first place. Right?

You know - people are tempted to overeat dessert, because the chocolate lava cake is just so good, consequences be damned! People are tempted to do naughty drugs even though they're bad for the body, because they just feel so damn good for awhile! That kind of thing.

So the people making these "choice" arguments are implicitly saying that gay sex is as awesome as eating a dozen chocolate lava cakes and tooting a big ol' rail of cocaine - and just as deadly for the soul. So it must be resisted, no matter how hard that may seem! I wonder if they realize this.

I'm thinking the irony'd probably be lost on most of them.

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

 

[turingtest]

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

Explain what damn difference it makes. Even if it is a choice (and you'll excuse me if I take the expert consensus of science over your "what about twins? Huh? Huh??!?!?" any day of the week), why should there be a struggle at all for them over one that's nobody's business but theirs?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Because genes are not the end of the story when it comes to human behaviour.

 

[bruto]

It;s not that simple.
The whole Gay Marraige controversy shows that.
IMHO the solution is that the Government should get out of the Marraige business all together and just have "Civil Unions" and leave marriage to the churches,but that will never happen.

But a civil union and a civil marriage are functionally identical. Civil marriage has been an institution in the United States since before there were United States. The idea that the state should get out of the "marriage" business has arisen only in the context of gay rights. If it was all right up until gay rights came into the fore to call civil union civil marriage, then it's just a semantic end run to avoid having to refer to gay couples as married, a cheap semantic retort that, in the process of putting a little verbal asterisk on gay unions, does the same to all who marry without the benefit of a church, verbally separates all those who were civilly married before such a law from those civilly unified after, and complicates interstate questions of what unions are valid and transferable. It's a solution of a sort if the thought of gay marriage rankles, or if you feel you must assuage those for whom it does, but a simpler solution (legally if not religiously) that works even better is just to remove the gender qualification from existing civil marriage laws, recognize the long-standing constitutional law of reciprocity, and carry on.

 

[Butter!]

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

Yeah! Explain how one twin can like spicy food and the other not if it's not a choice! Huh! Huh???? Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha!

 

[maxpower1227]

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

A person's genome alone does not determine every characteristic about them. Epigenetic factors, gene expression levels, etc can also have an impact on a person's development. That explains why identical twins are not identical in every way possible. I don't know about your second example; I know of no women who grew up to be lesbian as the result of sexual abuse suffered as a child.

 

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by That19Guy View Post
So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

Yeah! Explain how one twin can like spicy food and the other not if it's not a choice! Huh! Huh???? Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha!

Obviously, the one who likes the spicy food got molested at a young age. OMG, we've solved the age-old question of choice- it's all childhood trauma! Eleventy and all that...

Of course, we're still stuck with the question of why the hell it matters. This is a question T19G will never ask, much less answer.

 

[Butter!]

Obviously, the one who likes the spicy food got molested at a young age. OMG, we've solved the age-old question of choice- it's all childhood trauma! Eleventy and all that...

Of course, we're still stuck with the question of why the hell it matters. This is a question T19G will never ask, much less answer.

Yeah! LOL, hey, Freud called. He wants his long-debunked nonsense back.

Sometimes a cigar is just an obsession with phallic imagery...

 

[bruto]

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

I don't know what your great struggle has been, but I don't think the gay rights movement has been personally aimed at invidious comparison. Your struggle, whatever it might be, may well be great and unique, but it does not in its turn invalidate the struggle of someone whose predisposition is homosexual, against convention, homophobia, disenfranchisement, ignorance and stupidity. It's not a contest.

Of course, any "lifestyle" can be labelled a choice. A heterosexual man can choose to become a priest or a hermit, a homosexual can choose a heterosexual union in order to have children or to avoid the threat of hell, a battered spouse can choose to be raped in order to avoid reprisal and murder, and on and on and on. People have made uncomfortable and unhappy choices since time immemorial, but acknowledging that we can choose what we do does not mean we can choose what we are. Acknowledging that we can make unhappy choices to avoid worse consequences does not make the choices good.

 

[turingtest]

Yeah! LOL, hey, Freud called. He wants his long-debunked nonsense back.

Sometimes a cigar is just an obsession with phallic imagery...

Thanks; I was actually smoking a cigar when I read that. It was a small one, though; that doesn't count, right?

 

[Dissolution]

I hate the idea that attraction is a choice, regardless of whether it's to do with homosexuality or not.
Do people choose to be attracted to thin, muscular or tall people? It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it.
Why does changing the sexual orientation of the person experiencing the attraction matter?

 

[bruto]

The second point is why do liberals care so much about what Republicans think about Gays?

If you're a Republican, and opposed to the trend in gay rights as much of that party appears to be, you should be pleased that "liberals" care so much. It means you still have some influence. When proponents of gay rights stop caring what Republicans think, it will be either because the Republicans have lost the battle or because the party has become ineffectual, or both.

I care what Republicans think about gays because I believe Republican policy on that matter is contrary to the best interests of the society I live in. You may consider that a perplexing question or a trivial concern. I do not.

 

[turingtest]

Originally Posted by Elf Grinder 3000 View Post
The second point is why do liberals care so much about what Republicans think about Gays?

If you're a Republican, and opposed to the trend in gay rights as much of that party appears to be, you should be pleased that "liberals" care so much. It means you still have some influence. When proponents of gay rights stop caring what Republicans think, it will be either because the Republicans have lost the battle or because the party has become ineffectual, or both.

I care what Republicans think about gays because I believe Republican policy on that matter is contrary to the best interests of the society I live in. You may consider that a perplexing question or a trivial concern. I do not.

EG3K's little poser kind of bears a family resemblance to that smug "gotcha!" fundie Christians love to trot out so triumphantly, confident it can't be answered- "atheists don't believe in god, so why do they get so worked up over what they say doesn't exist? Isn't that just silly?" I don't care about a non-existent god-that would be silly; but there's nothing silly about caring what use the very-existent believers in him make of him. Same thing here- I don't care what Republicans think about gay people, but I do care about how they translate those thoughts into actions. And I don't even have to be gay to care; there's no requirement that concerns be strictly personal ones to be valid.

 

[tsig]

So explain how identical twins can different sexual orientation again if it's not a choice?

Or how a chick can get molested at a young age and now is a Lesbian?

I'm not saying there isn't a predisposition, but to deny the fact that people choose their sexual lifestyle is just something some gay people tell you to equate their struggle with yours when it's not the same thing.

When did you chose your sexual lifestyle? How did you make that choice?

 

[Dissolution]

When did you chose your sexual lifestyle? How did you make that choice?

I don't think that people choose their sexual preference, but everyone chooses their sexual lifestyle, don't they?