I almost wanted to catch up with the girl that terrorized me through 8th grade and learn that she was in some mental hospital with a straight jacket or on death row; maybe just stuck home, with 8 kids living off the system. To my great disappointment, I noticed through friends of friends on FB, that she looked normal; married with a couple of kids, no facial scars from bar-room brawls. The one kid I did know through friends to end up a murderer was the last kid I would expect. He wasn't shy or quiet, nor was he outrageously loud. One day, soon after high school he snapped and stabbed his father and his father's girlfriend.
Being bullied
- Thread starter LibraryLady
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whatthebutlersaw
Dessert Arsonist
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Dear Foxholeatheist,
during my years at JREF I have never had any specific opinion on you.
Now I have. It involves wearing certain parts of one's anatomy as headgear.
You manage to sum up exactly the opinions of a bully and grown up bully-enablers in two short posts proving that you are, in effect, a bully.
And you smell bad.
LibraryLady
Emeritus
Well, as many of you know, my bully died in an auto accident while in high school.
As to handling the situation better, had I been a 55 year old in a 13 year old body, I'm betting the whole thing wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately, I was only a 13 year old in a 13 year old body.
As to handling the situation better, had I been a 55 year old in a 13 year old body, I'm betting the whole thing wouldn't have happened. Unfortunately, I was only a 13 year old in a 13 year old body.
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slingblade
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That was a decent effort, but as a tactic it failed on so many levels, I simply couldn't respect it in the end.
I've spent the last hour trying to compose an appropriate response, while fully realizing the entire time that, by trying, I'm allowing you and your not very subtle jabs to manipulate me. I finally decided not to respond that way.
I will say that I noted where you gave contradictory "advice," have noted the slurs and jabs you inserted (again, not very subtly), and note that people often have an ulterior and ugly motive behind asking, "why didn't you?" Given our history, I do question your motives and believe I know them.
I will tell you that most of what you framed as "suggestions" don't even apply to my workplace. For instance, there is no such thing as an "HR" department to go to. I went to the right and only person I could go to. But she doesn't even show up for two hours after I start work, so there was literally no one else in that office to whom "we" could take the matter as it unfolded.
You knew none of this when you made your "suggestions." Does knowing it now change your opinion? Or will you, as I expect, take another opportunity to make this my fault? I already know I did nothing wrong in this incident. I handled it appropriately to obtain my desired goal.
That's where we differ, and I suspect you knew that as you wrote, and wrote deliberately.
My objective in relating the tale to begin with was to show that adults experience bullying too. It usually differs in certain respects from the kind found in childhood, but it does still occasionally happen. That you chose to respond by telling me I handled it like a victim is, in itself, an attempt to victimize me again. It hasn't worked.
The reason it hasn't worked is that I didn't tell this story to get advice on how to stand up to a bully. In this instance, standing up to the bully was never my objective. That's a very important distinction, and the reason why your entire post, as I said above, utterly fails. Standing up to this bully, in this specific circumstance, was never my objective.
My goal was only to do what I had to do to keep my job. And I did that. I'm still employed.
Your advice, and your thoughts, on this incident as they pertain specifically to me are not welcome, wanted, or required. Do not offer them to me again.
Beth
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Senex
Philosopher
I won't share right now but I've read something here that hits home. I'm teary eyed. Adults let me down when I was a child. I was bullied in grade school. Not in high school.
I've debated about posting my story here. I didn't have it nearly as bad as some of you, but I did get teased and bullied sometimes at school, so I know how it feels. And in other ways, I got it worse than you, because I had a bully that none of you has ever mentioned.
My own father.
He was mentally and emotionally abusive, but never physically. Not that it matters, all abuse is horrible. I can't even begin to explain every episode, every incident that happened. But imagine, everything that you went through at school, the torture, the anxiety, the helplessness, it all happened at home, for me. There was no escape; home was never a refuge. And this was definitely one bully that I absolutely could not stand up to. Like library lady said, I was a child in a child's body, not an adult.
I would venture that growing up this way actually set me up for being bullied in school. My father taught me how to be a victim; I was a ready-made target. I didn't get bullied daily at school, however. It was at random times, usually when my "friends" weren't with me at the time. So, when my father found out that I was being bullied, his brilliant advice was to punch them first, and he would deal with the repercussions later.
Yeah, I never followed his advice. I don't know what made the bullies stop. I never did anything to stop them, but after a while they just gave up.
And I dealt with my father, the bully. But I had to be an adult. I didn't have the confidence nor the strength before then. And like a typical bully, he refuses to own up to his actions, and instead blames our problems on me. Well, that's why I haven't talked to him in five years, and had minimal contact before then.
I suppose some of the bully supporters here could say I've just "avoided" the problem, rather than dealing with it. I did try to deal with it. It didn't work. He didn't listen to me, or even seriously consider what I said. All he did was blame me for everything. He wouldn't take responsibility for abusing me for 16 years. There is no way to make him understand, so avoiding the problem is now the best solution.
My own father.
He was mentally and emotionally abusive, but never physically. Not that it matters, all abuse is horrible. I can't even begin to explain every episode, every incident that happened. But imagine, everything that you went through at school, the torture, the anxiety, the helplessness, it all happened at home, for me. There was no escape; home was never a refuge. And this was definitely one bully that I absolutely could not stand up to. Like library lady said, I was a child in a child's body, not an adult.
I would venture that growing up this way actually set me up for being bullied in school. My father taught me how to be a victim; I was a ready-made target. I didn't get bullied daily at school, however. It was at random times, usually when my "friends" weren't with me at the time. So, when my father found out that I was being bullied, his brilliant advice was to punch them first, and he would deal with the repercussions later.
Yeah, I never followed his advice. I don't know what made the bullies stop. I never did anything to stop them, but after a while they just gave up. And I dealt with my father, the bully. But I had to be an adult. I didn't have the confidence nor the strength before then. And like a typical bully, he refuses to own up to his actions, and instead blames our problems on me. Well, that's why I haven't talked to him in five years, and had minimal contact before then.
I suppose some of the bully supporters here could say I've just "avoided" the problem, rather than dealing with it. I did try to deal with it. It didn't work. He didn't listen to me, or even seriously consider what I said. All he did was blame me for everything. He wouldn't take responsibility for abusing me for 16 years. There is no way to make him understand, so avoiding the problem is now the best solution.
Cainkane1
Philosopher
I can't imagine. How old are yoou now?I've debated about posting my story here. I didn't have it nearly as bad as some of you, but I did get teased and bullied sometimes at school, so I know how it feels. And in other ways, I got it worse than you, because I had a bully that none of you has ever mentioned.
My own father.
He was mentally and emotionally abusive, but never physically. Not that it matters, all abuse is horrible. I can't even begin to explain every episode, every incident that happened. But imagine, everything that you went through at school, the torture, the anxiety, the helplessness, it all happened at home, for me. There was no escape; home was never a refuge. And this was definitely one bully that I absolutely could not stand up to. Like library lady said, I was a child in a child's body, not an adult.
I would venture that growing up this way actually set me up for being bullied in school. My father taught me how to be a victim; I was a ready-made target. I didn't get bullied daily at school, however. It was at random times, usually when my "friends" weren't with me at the time. So, when my father found out that I was being bullied, his brilliant advice was to punch them first, and he would deal with the repercussions later.
And I dealt with my father, the bully. But I had to be an adult. I didn't have the confidence nor the strength before then. And like a typical bully, he refuses to own up to his actions, and instead blames our problems on me. Well, that's why I haven't talked to him in five years, and had minimal contact before then.
I suppose some of the bully supporters here could say I've just "avoided" the problem, rather than dealing with it. I did try to deal with it. It didn't work. He didn't listen to me, or even seriously consider what I said. All he did was blame me for everything. He wouldn't take responsibility for abusing me for 16 years. There is no way to make him understand, so avoiding the problem is now the best solution.
This brings up painful memories. I appreciate the many stories. Thanks LL and TM.
I remember when I was in first or second grade being shaken down for my milk money every day by a much larger, older kid, and how fearful I was when walking to school and during recess, and how all-consuming that fear was. One day I snapped and punched him in the stomach in front of what seemed like the whole school. He cried like a baby and it never happened again. Some of those old sayings are true.
Worse than that though are my memories of being cruel to other kids. Ugh.
I've worried about my son (now 17) in the past because he's one of the shortest kids in his class and I'm guessing that he would keep it to himself if he had problems, like I did. In general, things seems to be much better now than when I was a kid. But still, there have been some disturbing local incidents of teachers and administrators neglecting situations that got way out of hand.
I remember when I was in first or second grade being shaken down for my milk money every day by a much larger, older kid, and how fearful I was when walking to school and during recess, and how all-consuming that fear was. One day I snapped and punched him in the stomach in front of what seemed like the whole school. He cried like a baby and it never happened again. Some of those old sayings are true.
Worse than that though are my memories of being cruel to other kids. Ugh.
I've worried about my son (now 17) in the past because he's one of the shortest kids in his class and I'm guessing that he would keep it to himself if he had problems, like I did. In general, things seems to be much better now than when I was a kid. But still, there have been some disturbing local incidents of teachers and administrators neglecting situations that got way out of hand.
Cainkane1
Philosopher
Getting bullied in highschool is worse. You're lucky
samanthakayee
Scholar
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I have 3 kids age 3,8 and 11
My oldest was bullied (just because he is shy) so last year I pulled both of them out of public school and now have them in a Charter school. It is much better since 99% of it is homeschooling and they only go in twice a week to the school.
Originally Posted by qayak
Interesting that all the bullies in everyone else's experience went on to become murderers. All the bullies I ever knew are pretty much normal members of society these days.
The only murderer I know I went to school with was a strange little dude. A couple years after graduation he picked up a girl at a bar, took her to a gravel pit where he raped, beat and strangled her. A few weeks later he broke into a house while the parents were at church and raped, beat and shot their sixteen year old daughter with a 12 guage shotgun.
The ones still alive are normal people running around from what I saw of them on the myspace group for my high school. There was three of them that in 12th grade died from drunk driving.
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samanthakayee
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opps
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I regret that my approach did not yield the results I was hoping for. However, let me assure you that I don't jab - I slug. If I ask, "why didn't you..." I mean it as the simple question it is. If I wanted to cast aspersions on your character, I would have written, "Were you too cowardly to..." or "Anybody with even a modicum of self respect would have..." Instead I asked simple, direct questions because I do not understand why you didn't take any of the approaches that first came to my mind.
Hell, I don't understand why my wife cannot simply tell a door-to-door salesman, "I'm not interested," and shut the door. I don't understand why I've had several people over the years ask me to go with them to car dealerships. I mean, I understand that they want me to do what they can't, but I don't understand why they "can't" do it themselves.
The last time I did it, we asked for specific models of used cars in a certain price range. The first car they brought out was newer and well past the upper price limit. My friend was ready to test drive it anyway. I said, "We told you what we wanted, and that's not it. We're leaving." I took her by the arm, and we walked.
The salesman started to follow us and try to convince us. I turned to him and said, "You need to leave. Now." By the time we reached our car, the sales manager was running out to apologize. I told him, "If you want to give us another salesman who will bring out only what we ask for, we'll return. Otherwise, we're gone." He did, and things went smoothly from there.
I genuinely don't understand why some people find this so difficult.
Believe what you will. I don't "disguise" my "motives." The worst I can be accused of is phrasing things so that they fit within the confines of the Membership Agreement. For example, right now I have no problems whatsoever saying that based on your reaction, I question just how reliable your stories of "bullying" are. You're seeing manipulation and "ugly" motives where none were intended simply because I asked direct questions. Some people just can't handle confrontation very well and see attacks and bullying where others see nothing of the kind. So, if you interpret my simple questions as slurs and jabs, I question whether you and I would agree on whether a given situation you experienced was bullying.
My specific suggestion in that specific incident at that specific time may not apply, but the principle does. Have all the times you've been "bullied" occurred before the boss came in? Why didn't you later that morning ask your supervisor to join you in the boss's office and then say, "Please say to me exactly what you said to me earlier this morning in the same tone and volume. I want to know if this is acceptable behavior."
I thought of the things that I would have done and asked why you didn't do the same. As I said, your behavior is classic victim behavior. You allowed the person to berate you, and rather than assert your right as a human being to not be treated like that, you relied upon someone else to handle the situation for you. Your boss will likely hear the other side of the story, and I'm willing to bet it won't sound so egregious when your supervisor tells it. You'll come across as somebody overly sensitive. The supervisor may even say something like, "If it was so bad, why didn't she speak up at the time? She's just embarrassed because she screwed up, and she's whining after the fact because she's too immature to handle it like a grown up."
The boss, who didn't witness it and who probably doesn't want to devote anymore effort to this than necessary, may say something like, "Well, watch your tone with her in the future."
And thus the cycle will continue. I don't know what you think you accomplished, but I'm willing to bet not much. If you're 51 years old and still getting yelled at like a child, it's time to ask yourself why.
Didn't know what? That you had no HR department? In a small company, the boss is the "HR department." That your boss wasn't in the office yet? What am I, a mind reader?
What about my other "suggestions" where you face the person and demand to be treated with the respect you deserve?
I find your reaction to be more classic victim behavior because you felt like I was trying to "victimize" you but failed. I never denied that adult bullying happens. In fact, I stated explicitly that it does happen. I'm trying to understand why it seems to happen to some people on a regular basis while others almost never experience it. Have you noticed that nobody so far has shared stories of adult bullying after having a childhood free of bullying or being a bully themselves? I'm not saying that never happens, but it doesn't need to be an absolute for there to be patterns.
If you had said, "Do not speak to me in that manner. I find it disrespectful. You're my supervisor, and I will do as you direct, but I will not sit here and be verbally berated," your job would have been at risk?
What was your objective in telling the boss?
If you do not want to see my comments, then put me on ignore. This is a public forum, and I will post my comments within the bounds of the Membership Agreement. If you feel I have violated the MA, report my posts. While you may not find any value in my comments about your situation, maybe somebody else in a similar situation will.
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TraneWreck
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Damn, you are so cool...
slingblade
Unregistered
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I see you persist. In spite of my clearly telling you your persistence is unwanted.
I wonder why you do that?
I see you persist in trying to bully me into not speaking my mind on a public forum in which we both in theory have equal standing. I did nothing to deserve this type of treatment or draw it to me. It's not my fault that in a public discussion you are not comfortable with my comments about your opinions yet you expect me to quietly accept your negative comments about my opinions and do as you say without question.
I wonder why you do that?
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
I'm typically opposed to homeschooling, but never considered homeschooling as an anti-bully move.
What an incredibly charming individual you are.
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TraneWreck
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Careful, you don't want to end up on the list of people he made fun of in his signature.
There's no recovering from that.
Safe-Keeper
My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
He told you. He's "just asking questions". Apparently he's very proud of his ability to stand up to people, and can't possibly fathom why everyone else aren't as awesome as he is.slingblade said:
Not that I don't feel that way all the time, but still, you're not suppsoed to say it
p 
)!:fear:TraneWreck said:
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LibraryLady
Emeritus
I too never thought of Charter Schools and home schooling as an anti-bullying measure. However, I've been trying to think of ways I could help even though I'm not a parent and don't really have a lot of contact with kids. There are a horde of anti-bullying Web sites out there (try Googling), but I'm hoping to look further into it.
ETA: There's a good article in the journal Childhood Education August 15, 2008.
ETA: There's a good article in the journal Childhood Education August 15, 2008.
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