Being bullied

[Elvis666]

"Hitting is wrong." Yeah, so is standing there and allowing yourself to be hit.

When my son was in fifth grade, he began to get bullied by another student in class. This was the first time this had ever happened to him. When the teacher didn't do anything about it, I gave him the same advice. I told him that, while his mother and I thought that hitting another child was, in general, the wrong thing to do, the next time the boy started up, to turn and hit him as hard as he could in the stomach. Just once, then step back.

My wife was vivid that I would tell our son such a thing but, the next day, the bullying started and my son did just as I suggested. The bully hit the ground and began crying. When the teacher asked what was wrong, he said he fell down. The bully and my son then became and remained friends until going to different schools in the 7th grade.

And it was also the last time I remember being right while my wife was wrong.

 

[Fnord]

Back in high school, there were four boys - Bob, Jim, Tim and Zach (Not their real names) - who bullied me because Bob had overheard me say to Pete (again, not his real name) something to the fact that while more women may attempt suicide, more men actually succeed. Bob wen back to his friends and told them that I had told Pete to kill himself. From then on, Bob, Jim, Tim and Zach would either insult me openly in class (despite several warning from the teachers), or spread lies about me among the other students, such as "Pete moved away because Fnord told him to go hang himself" and "I heard Fnord call you a mother-f*****".

One day, they ganged up on me - Jim and Tim beating on me, Bob goading them on, and Zach shouting insults at me along with the others. They were caught by the principal, who pulled them off of me. He later directed one of the counselors to investigate, and after talking to Pete (who had since moved away) and other students, she reported that not only had I not told Pete to kill himself, but that I was actually giving him moral support over some rough family issues (such as his father being transferred and having to move out of state), and that Bob's "misinformation campaign" was motivated more by his own personal dislike of me than anything else (I had bested him in several classroom debates). Bob insisted that his own version of the story was the only correct one, however.

Jim and Tim were expelled almost immediately, and Bob followed the next day, all after threatening the principal and almost everyone else involved. Zach was a little more careful, and was only threatened with suspension, so he kept his hostility towards me to himself from then on (most of the time). I was later to learn that after high school graduation, Bob, Jim, Tim and Zach eventually developed problems with employment, homelessness and personal relationships (in varying degrees of each).

I never did find out any more about Pete. I hope he's okay.

 

[Polaris]

Or the larger the classroom, the more cover.

Or the smaller the classroom, the more likely everybody knows everybody else - including The Target (this includes the teacher who sometimes knew the bully's "daddy when he was in school" and approves by inaction the bullying - doubly so if the bully is a star athlete).

 

[Modified]

My lab partner in high school biology class in 1984/85 (freshman year) was a bully. Here's the story of his conviction for a murder he committed shortly after that http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...UQiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=-asFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1922,1798102 . He never bullied me, but he was always looking for a reason to be offended, and I had the sense to be very careful when talking to him.

 

[Duffy Moon]

Here's the story of his conviction for a murder he committed shortly after that

The bully from my primary and secondary schools is currently receiving free board and lodgings courtesy of Her Majesty.

With good behaviour (something he has failed to demonstrate in 41 years), he will be eligible for parole in 2036.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I think for the most part most of the teachers at my high school was on an ego trip and painfuly into Heterosexism.
The hatred, hostility, disapproval and prejudice towards homosexual people made my life hell. I was the most hated kid in school. When I say that I mean that on the first day of classes I had more then once a kid lean over to me and tell me all about that Espen chick. (they would post a list on the first day on the door of who is in the class) It was an odd feeling for me to then have to put my hand up and say here seconds latter.
I had my pants pulled down by a group of rednecks in a stairwell to see if I had a penis. Someone got this grand idea that being Bi ment that I was both a man and a woman. I ran into the office crying and in a panic. They made my dad pay for me to go to a child Psychologist to learn to deal with other kids. After they found out I was in fact 100% girl I was told a few times that I just needed a good F*** to cure me of liking girls too.
If I had to wake up tomorrow and be back in high school I do not think I could do it again without dropping out. I used to daydream about shooting up the place and understood all the school shootings.
I had more then one teacher inform me that is was ok that people was beating me up since I chose to be Bi. I just feel bad for the kids who have to still deal with the teachers I had that are bi or gay. I only got out of high school in 1996 so I am sure a few are still around.

I was not a open gay kid running around with shirts with rainbows on or anything like that. I told one kid in 9th grade that I also liked girls. I felt she was a good friend at the time and could open up to her. The very next day the whole school found out about it.

I have to say I did get great enjoyment looking over the myspace page for my school that a few of the jerks did die.

A very disturbing read. Can't blame you for being happy at least some of them have passed.

 

[qayak]

Interesting that all the bullies in everyone else's experience went on to become murderers. All the bullies I ever knew are pretty much normal members of society these days.

The only murderer I know I went to school with was a strange little dude. A couple years after graduation he picked up a girl at a bar, took her to a gravel pit where he raped, beat and strangled her. A few weeks later he broke into a house while the parents were at church and raped, beat and shot their sixteen year old daughter with a 12 guage shotgun.

 

[Cainkane1]

Interesting that all the bullies in everyone else's experience went on to become murderers. All the bullies I ever knew are pretty much normal members of society these days.

The only murderer I know I went to school with was a strange little dude. A couple years after graduation he picked up a girl at a bar, took her to a gravel pit where he raped, beat and strangled her. A few weeks later he broke into a house while the parents were at church and raped, beat and shot their sixteen year old daughter with a 12 guage shotgun.

I've know many a bully and one guy name Robert Strickland is a murderer and you can see him if you go to Georgia inmate locaters. The others I knew either straightened themselves out or got in trouble later in life with multiple divorces, assault charges and such. Like I said most of them straightened out. I firmly believe however that being a bully in school is a good indicator of anti social behaviour later in life. Some grow out of it and some don't.

I personally think they are scum I don't care if they are nice guys now or not.

 

[Cainkane1]

I think for the most part most of the teachers at my high school was on an ego trip and painfuly into Heterosexism.
The hatred, hostility, disapproval and prejudice towards homosexual people made my life hell. I was the most hated kid in school. When I say that I mean that on the first day of classes I had more then once a kid lean over to me and tell me all about that Espen chick. (they would post a list on the first day on the door of who is in the class) It was an odd feeling for me to then have to put my hand up and say here seconds latter.
I had my pants pulled down by a group of rednecks in a stairwell to see if I had a penis. Someone got this grand idea that being Bi ment that I was both a man and a woman. I ran into the office crying and in a panic. They made my dad pay for me to go to a child Psychologist to learn to deal with other kids. After they found out I was in fact 100% girl I was told a few times that I just needed a good F*** to cure me of liking girls too.
If I had to wake up tomorrow and be back in high school I do not think I could do it again without dropping out. I used to daydream about shooting up the place and understood all the school shootings.
I had more then one teacher inform me that is was ok that people was beating me up since I chose to be Bi. I just feel bad for the kids who have to still deal with the teachers I had that are bi or gay. I only got out of high school in 1996 so I am sure a few are still around.

I was not a open gay kid running around with shirts with rainbows on or anything like that. I told one kid in 9th grade that I also liked girls. I felt she was a good friend at the time and could open up to her. The very next day the whole school found out about it.

I have to say I did get great enjoyment looking over the myspace page for my school that a few of the jerks did die.

I'm sorry you had to go through this. If you have kids or plan to ever have kids I might if I were you advise them to keep their sexual orientation to themselves. This doesn't give some gang of losers the right to torment you or anyone else.

 

[pgwenthold]

I'm sorry you had to go through this. If you have kids or plan to ever have kids I might if I were you advise them to keep their sexual orientation to themselves. This doesn't give some gang of losers the right to torment you or anyone else.

Yep, let the bullies control their lives. That's a good approach.

 

[Modified]

Interesting that all the bullies in everyone else's experience went on to become murderers.

Not all of them, but I also had some run-ins with the co-defendant in the article I linked, probably in fifth grade or thereabouts. Some of his brothers and cousins were also psychopath-type bullies, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of them had been in prison for violent crimes (I know some of them have been on national trash talk shows with topics like "I'm sleeping with my brother's wife").

I'd say of the bullies I've had to deal with, a good quarter or them seemed truly dangerous; another third or so were troubled loners who probably wouldn't want to do much more than give you a beating; the rest were just kids showing off, who wouldn't bother you if their friends weren't around to see it.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm sorry you had to go through this. If you have kids or plan to ever have kids I might if I were you advise them to keep their sexual orientation to themselves. This doesn't give some gang of losers the right to torment you or anyone else.

"Be careful who you tell it to" might be a far better approach. Take in your surroundings. If there are already many bi and gay people around you and they are treated well, consider going ahead. If the pool is empty, don't be the first to hop in. It's called picking your battles.

You want to hop in, be prepared to take lots of flak. Lots of ******** out there. There are even more extreme stories than samantha's out there.

 

[slingblade]

A few things:

1) The issue of being bullied is not about people liking you. It's about people terrorizing you.

That's a rather obvious and major difference.

There were people in my school years who didn't like me. But they didn't bully me. That they didn't like me didn't break my widdle heart, either. If I liked them, I might find it sad not to have that returned, but I didn't cry about it, didn't spend a whole lot of time concerned with it. Because not everyone is going to like you. I knew people I didn't care for very much, myself. But that's not what being bullied is. No, the bully obviously doesn't like you, but he or she then goes out of the way to harm you, physically, mentally, emotionally, or all three.

That's not the same as just not "being liked." Please change that notion, if you hold it.

I'd like to add to what aggle-rithm said so well:

The way I've always thought of it is:

Imagine you are an adult and every day you must go to a job where you are ridiculed and harrassed by your coworkers. If you complain to your boss you are simply told to get back to work.

Add to this the following condition: YOU CAN'T QUIT. You have to return to this situation day after day, year after year.

Now imagine you don't have the coping skills that an adult has to deal with this type of stress.

That's what it's like. An adult wouldn't be able to handle it. A child is expected to.

Further, no matter what mood you wake up in, no matter what neat thing might have happened to you since you left "work" the day before, no matter even if it's your birthday, if you are being routinely bullied (note emphasis), you will NOT HAVE A NICE DAY. In fact, if you dare to show up for "work" in the least of good moods, you can expect it to be quickly squashed. And you know this before you get there. You know it the moment you wake up. Every. Day. It won't be a good day. It just won't.

That's in the case of routine, prolonged, enduring bullying. Which brings me to my next point:

2) Just as each person is different, each bullying situation is different. There are simply too many variables to even consider, practically speaking. Most of us react to the topic of bullying with some reflection of our own experiences with it. Those who weren't bullied, or were on a limited basis, need to realize that some people were bullied relentlessly, day in and day out, year in and year out.

And this whole "some people have it a lot worse" thing, what's up with that, anyway? Yes, there will always be someone who "has it worse than you," so what? I had it worse than some of you. Some have had it worse than me. Whatever. I had what I had, and it figured prominently in my development as a person. Frankly, it messed me up. So don't discount people by saying that. It's...well, it's just rude.

Okay, that's all. Just wanted to say that.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Interesting that all the bullies in everyone else's experience went on to become murderers. All the bullies I ever knew are pretty much normal members of society these days.

Yeh, but that's boring. Who's gonna share stories like that?

 

[Beth]

It's been difficult for me just to read this thread. I don't feel up to posting my own childhood experiences being bullied. I just want to say that Library lady, I appreciate your writing the OP. I want to echo what aggle-rithm wrote. I've had some experiences being bullied on the job as an adult. It is soooooo much easier to deal with as an adult. I think mainly because I have the option of quitting. I have been in bad work situations where I couldn't leave without having another position, but even that option made it better.

Further, as an adult, I now have some clue what to do about it. I can leave. I can write a complaint. I could even file suit, an act of harassment itself, if I want to.

Finally, the bullying I have experienced as an adult, traumatic as it has been on occasion, does not compare with what I underwent in elementary school and junior high. I can even look back on it now and realize that I could have responded differently and that might have helped. But I didn't know how as a child.

I'll also echo those who say that the worst advice they got was 'ignore it'. That's what I was told to do too. I think that attempting to ignore the verbal slings and the deliberate bumps, pushes and shoves just made things worse. You can't ignore people who are up in your face loudly telling you how awful you are and pushing you around physically.

The 'socialization' I and my husband received in school was a major influencing factor in our decision to homeschool our children.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Further, as an adult, I now have some clue what to do about it. I can leave. I can write a complaint. I could even file suit, an act of harassment itself, if I want to.

I don't know you from Adam, but I think your statement above says a lot about bullying from the victim's perspective. I may be reading too much into it, so please don't take this as a personal attack. I'm really dealing in generalities.

In this thread there seems to be three broad categories of victims. One group got bullied. Another group got bullied, but at some point stood up to it forcefully. The third group, which is where I lump myself, either didn't get bullied or at worst had a few occasions where it was attempted and quickly squashed.

When I look at your possible courses of action, the first one is retreat. The second and third options are to ask a third party to use their power to intervene on your behalf. Nowhere did you mention dealing with the bully toe-to-toe. Nowhere did you mention self-examination to say, "Why throughout my life have I been bullied?"

It reminds of a bassist I know who shares stories about the ******* band leaders and bandmates he has encountered and the ****** way he's been treated. He complains about how hard is to find the right bunch of fellas to make the sound loud or mellow.

Many of us explain to him that we've never encountered people like that. I, for one, have explained that I can't fathom anybody even considering doing to me some of the things he has described such as the singer sucking a lime wedge on stage, then tossing it on to my gear. And then while I'm getting it off my stuff, starting the song.

My theory is that anybody who has gotten to know me even briefly would know that there's no way they could get away with that. Even if I were so financially vulnerable that I needed the gig, the most I would do is finish the gig, get my money, then make that person regret ever having done it. Even I were far weaker physically or outnumbered, I'd find a way.

But more to the point, I believe there are those who come across as the weak ones of the herd. Bullies seek out those willing to accept the abuse. Occasionally they make the wrong judgment, but usually they are right.

So, for those of you who have endured bullying from childhood into adulthood, how much have you looked inward? I'm sure you've asked yourselves, "What did I do to deserve this?" How many of you have asked, "What it is about me that no matter where I go, bullies seek me out?" How many have asked, "In what ways do I react that keep these interactions appealing enough for the bully to repeatedly initiate them?"

I have two young sons, and I wonder if they are going to have the natural personality traits that I have in regards to being bullied. If they don't, will I be able to teach them? When they are standing in line in school and the bully is looking for somebody to cut in front of, will my boys be selected or will the bully spot somebody else he perceives to be an easy target?

It's not just physical size. I played a lot of sports and coached youth sports. I saw plenty of small bullies and, for the lack of a better term, big wimps. I remember one year making one kid my project. He was the biggest kid on the team but by far the least coordinated (literally tripped over his own feet) and most passive. By the end of the season he had made tremendous strides and was no longer that guy. He had earned the respect of the others. Part of it I know came from my sphere of influence over his teammates, but his parents thanked me several times for the changes they saw outside of football practice. He was the same nice kid he always was, but he was no longer a kid you would look at and say, "Ah, he's just a big wuss."

Bullies aren't going to go away. As qayak said, bully tactics are all over the place. Dealing with them is not something to be avoided. It's a skill that needs to be learned. I think that when avoidance becomes a preferred tactic instead of a last resort, you end up attracting more bullies. This, of course, reinforces avoidance as a preferred technique when it's actually making the problem worse.

 

[slingblade]

I find today that virtually everyone who's tried to bully me is in a position of authority over me, and unless I want some negative life consequences, there's not a lot I can do. I also find they tend to pick on just about everyone they supervise, not just special lil ol' me.

I tend to get along with my peers very well. I was humiliated by my immediate supervisor last week for no better reason than that she could. I took her abuse, reacted maturely, and reported her behavior.

Not even so much as an apology. Meh. I just keep working and having good days in spite of her.

But I don't forget it.

Oh, and the only thing I did to draw her screaming tirade was to ask for a task after I'd sought work on my own and could find none. That shouldn't get a 51 year-old woman screamed at for 3 to 4 full minutes.

No, really. It shouldn't. I did nothing to "draw it to me." She's just a bitch.

 

[Uncayimmy]

There's a difference between "drawing it to you" and "being a target that will take it." I think you are clearly the latter. Your response was to take it and then to go to a higher authority - classic victim behavior. Your "meta message" is, "you're not allowed to yell at me like that because the boss says you're not" when in my opinion it should be, "I don't give a damn who you think you are, but you are not going to address me like that."

I had written a reply about my experiences, but I think a better approach is to ask you a few questions. First, what would it take to convince you that your personality and actions play a factor in the frequency, extent and/or duration of the bullying you encounter? The fact that others seemingly get bullied by this woman is no surprise. Bully bosses tend to hire and keep around those they can bully.

Why didn't you stand up and walk out?

Why didn't you say, "Hold that thought. Let's go to human resources right now and continue this conversation."

Why didn't you yell back something like, "I don't care if you are my boss, it doesn't entitle you to yell at me. I don't care if your boss tolerates it, I won't. Show me the respect I deserve."

Has anybody ever done that to her?

I ask because in my life I can only think of one instance where somebody yelled at me for more than 10 seconds (excluding when I pissed off people on the phone as a bill collector, which is another matter entirely). That instance was a cop, where the imbalance of power was tremendous, and I risked serious consequences if I didn't tread carefully. As it was I didn't back down in any way. I did not apologize for all the things he thought I did wrong on my motorcycle (Note: if you don't ride, don't lecture those of us who do on the safest way to avoid an accident). It lasted about 20 seconds, and he was clearly uncomfortable with the crowd that had surrounded us, so he quickly left without giving me a ticket (I didn't deserve one anyway).

 

[Helen]

UncaYimmy, standing up to bullies sounds like a good strategy, but many of the stories in this thread are about small children, and how are they supposed to know how to handle this? And it does not always work. I tried a couple of times, and all that happened was that it got worse. I think that Slingblade has it absolutely right, each bullying situations is different, and what works for you may not necessarily be the solution in every single situation, or, indeed, for every single person.

In a work situation, just walking out, or confronting the bully, may not be possible. You may be in a situation where you could jeopardise your job by doing that, and that may not always be a risk you can afford.

 

[Beth]

So, for those of you who have endured bullying from childhood into adulthood, how much have you looked inward? I'm sure you've asked yourselves, "What did I do to deserve this?" How many of you have asked, "What it is about me that no matter where I go, bullies seek me out?" How many have asked, "In what ways do I react that keep these interactions appealing enough for the bully to repeatedly initiate them?"

After I left school, bullies didn't seek me out. But when I did experience such treatment, I did get introspective in the way you are suggesting. As an adult, I can look back and recognize that some of my behavior contributed to the situation. But there were also factors that I had no control over. At any rate, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a child to be able to make those sorts of assessments or figure out what they need to do differently.

Bullies aren't going to go away. As qayak said, bully tactics are all over the place. Dealing with them is not something to be avoided. It's a skill that needs to be learned.

As an adult I have had training on how to deal with bullies and it's been helpful. As I child I had no clue. I also want to point out that it's one thing for an adult to deal with bully tactics from individuals you only see occasionally. It's another thing to expect a child, without training or experience, to be able to deal with bullies in their classroom.

I think that when avoidance becomes a preferred tactic instead of a last resort, you end up attracting more bullies. This, of course, reinforces avoidance as a preferred technique when it's actually making the problem worse.

Like Sling, as an adult I've never experienced bullying from someone who was not in a position of authority over me, nor have I had the kind of 'group bullying' that is common in school situations. As an adult, it was one-on-one. Further, those people in authority didn't pick on just me, but anyone they had authority over. As Helen said, walking out or confrontation may not be advisable - at least not as a first reaction. But for a child in school, those options have been removed. That's the major reason it's so much worse for children.