Being bullied

[pgwenthold]

Almost exactly my experience. I think that is the key to the small school / large school issue -- in a small school there is only room for 1 popular clique, and they dominate completely.

The school I went to was a small Christian school. We were always being warned about the evils of the public school system; I thought things would get so much worse "out there." The reality was, though, that when I changed and went to the public high school, there was so much more variety of types of people, and so many different cliques and groups, that it was a huge relief. Of course I still was still hampered by the damage done by my previous years in school, but still it was a better environment.

One thing I found in going to a smaller private school for K - 8 was that it was much, much easier for the _class_ to ostracize a single person. In the bigger school (which was far from large, but bigger than grade school), most people could find a group of friends to either blend into or use as protection. Sure, there were inter-group dynamic issues, but it didn't hit the individual level near as much, and wasn't near as personal.

 

[sgtbaker]

One thing I found in going to a smaller private school for K - 8 was that it was much, much easier for the _class_ to ostracize a single person. In the bigger school (which was far from large, but bigger than grade school), most people could find a group of friends to either blend into or use as protection. Sure, there were inter-group dynamic issues, but it didn't hit the individual level near as much, and wasn't near as personal.

The irony of the second school I went to was, the largest, most well known, dominant group in the school was the metal heads/leathers/dirtbags, what ever you wanted to call them. They mostly consisted of kids that were socially castigated in middle school and jr high. They are a part of every single fond memory I have of high school and the most unexclusive, welcoming bunch of people I had ever met.

 

[MikeMangum]

I can't speak to the spirit of the OP. Despite spending my time playing music and being a combative, outspoken atheist in a highly religious community, I was never bullied. Why? Because I was good at sports. That seems to be the free pass in our society. It's really an odd standard.

I was always good at sports, but that didn't protect me. I moved many times as a child, usually to small towns, and I was the outsider. In a town where every kid knows every other kid and they've all gone to school together their entire lives, a new kid can face bullying regardless of whether they fit steotypes of the bullied kid.

In my experience, bullies always tended to be losers who made themselves feel better by putting someone else down. I've never seen bullying by a person that was well liked.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

In my experience, bullies always tended to be losers who made themselves feel better by putting someone else down. I've never seen bullying by a person that was well liked.

Well, there are the "alpha male/female" kind, who "rules over" a group of people and keep it and others (as well as their own vulnerabilities) in check by talking trash. I know several of these in real-life. Granted, it's not bullying, but it's kind of the same behaviour -- putting down others to cover up your own weaknesses and cement your status and supremacy.

 

[iknownothing]

In my experience, bullies always tended to be losers who made themselves feel better by putting someone else down. I've never seen bullying by a person that was well liked.

I had a very few experiences with the outcast-type bully. Most of the bullying I experienced or saw was the popular rich kids kicking everyone below them. (For sins like not wearing Izod shirts.) First thought that came to my mind was a half-dozen or so popular, good-looking boys in my sophomore geometry class that would routinely openly mock a very obese girl. (Completely unchecked by the teacher.) They had absolutely nothing to gain except amusement from doing so.

ETA: They certainly did not have any lack of self esteem.

 

[Mr.D]

That's what I was thinking. I think bullying really is more about social status, and fitting in to a social group than anything else. If the group is large enough, the potential victims of bullying can more easily blend into the background. At least, that's my vague guess.

I'll posit that with larger schools, it's more likely that kids can find a peer group with common interests to make friends and hang out with. Less isolation gives fewer opportunities for bullies and more friends gives a larger social context for introverts and other likely targets to build self esteem and have "safe zones"

Of course that hypothesis reflects my own experience of being bullied (not physically) at a small-ish elementary school for three years before transferring to a larger school.

And while those three years pales in comparison to some of the experiences others have written about here, I know I still bear the emotional scars - in the form of substance abuse and a virtually nonexistent love-life.

 

[LibraryLady]

Mr. D. I'm so sorry.

I've seen bullying teachers as well. As a matter of fact, one of my proudest moments and the start of healing from bullying was an example.

There was a boy in our class, quite bright but very odd. With hindsight and new information, I'm pretty sure he had Asperger's Syndrome, poor kid. Mr. Foxman, and I use his real name, was explaining how elections work, and said, and this is exactly how I remember it, "Let's take a vote to see if S. is an idiot."

I heard someone say, "Mr. Foxman, you're the idiot." Then I realized I had said it. He threw me out of the class, and since it was last period, I just walked home. My mother was a little surprised to see me and I told her what had happened. She told me that I got any grief for it the next day to call her immediately.

The next morning, sure enough, in the list of kids who had to report to the Vice Principal's office, there was my name.

When I went into the office, the VP, whose name escapes me, looked at me and said, "This does not sound like you. Tell me what happened." And I told him. After a pause, which I then took to be him thinking deeply, but now think was a moment to control his anger, he said, "Go to class, and don't worry."

I think this must have been one in a series of problems with this teacher. When I left the school that year to move on to high school, I understand he also left.

What a jerk.

 

[fuelair]

For those who underestimate the impact of bullying on the ability of a child to live his or her life, I can only quote Shakespeare: He jests at scars who never felt a wound.

Bear in mind that these jeers, insults, physical assaults, hammers hitting are not occasional, they are constant. You are required to be in school, and school is where the abuse happens. You are required to spend time with your abusers.

It must be so much worse today, with social networking. At least in my day you could escape into your room. Now the bullying pursues you even there.

As to a world view, perhaps those who underestimate the impact of bullying had a wide and rational world view at thirteen. I, for one, did not. I thought that as things are, so they will ever be. Most of the thirteen year olds I knew then and know now were and are the same.

I think having a wide and partially vicious view of the world may have helped me - but I never underestimated the impact of bullying. A wide view of things doesn't mean you can't narrow your focus when necessary!

 

[fuelair]

Mr. D. I'm so sorry.

I've seen bullying teachers as well. As a matter of fact, one of my proudest moments and the start of healing from bullying was an example.

There was a boy in our class, quite bright but very odd. With hindsight and new information, I'm pretty sure he had Asperger's Syndrome, poor kid. Mr. Foxman, and I use his real name, was explaining how elections work, and said, and this is exactly how I remember it, "Let's take a vote to see if S. is an idiot."

I heard someone say, "Mr. Foxman, you're the idiot." Then I realized I had said it. He threw me out of the class, and since it was last period, I just walked home. My mother was a little surprised to see me and I told her what had happened. She told me that I got any grief for it the next day to call her immediately.

The next morning, sure enough, in the list of kids who had to report to the Vice Principal's office, there was my name.

When I went into the office, the VP, whose name escapes me, looked at me and said, "This does not sound like you. Tell me what happened." And I told him. After a pause, which I then took to be him thinking deeply, but now think was a moment to control his anger, he said, "Go to class, and don't worry."

I think this must have been one in a series of problems with this teacher. When I left the school that year to move on to high school, I understand he also left.

What a jerk.

Well done - no teacher should pull that crap. Though sometimes there is the temptation (with the students who could be or are doing well but are doing things that hold others back particularly!!). And the VP sounds like an honorable administrator. Those are very, very rare.

 

[Mr.D]

Mr. D. I'm so sorry.

Thanks,

Don't get me wrong, I've got 5+ years sober, a great job and I'm in pretty darned good shape for my age. So on balance I've got a good life going on, but almost 30 years on I could still start to feel my blood begin to boil just reading some of the stories posted here.

I'm glad that some of you out there found ways to deal with it. As for me, I was lucky enough to be smart enough to test into a fantastic private school and get out of the situation. I shudder to think of what might have happened if I hadn't; When I read about kids bullied into suicide and other such things in the news, my head still spends time in some very very dark places.

 

[Helen]

Mr. D. I'm so sorry.

I've seen bullying teachers as well. As a matter of fact, one of my proudest moments and the start of healing from bullying was an example.

There was a boy in our class, quite bright but very odd. With hindsight and new information, I'm pretty sure he had Asperger's Syndrome, poor kid. Mr. Foxman, and I use his real name, was explaining how elections work, and said, and this is exactly how I remember it, "Let's take a vote to see if S. is an idiot."

I heard someone say, "Mr. Foxman, you're the idiot." Then I realized I had said it. He threw me out of the class, and since it was last period, I just walked home. My mother was a little surprised to see me and I told her what had happened. She told me that I got any grief for it the next day to call her immediately.

The next morning, sure enough, in the list of kids who had to report to the Vice Principal's office, there was my name.

When I went into the office, the VP, whose name escapes me, looked at me and said, "This does not sound like you. Tell me what happened." And I told him. After a pause, which I then took to be him thinking deeply, but now think was a moment to control his anger, he said, "Go to class, and don't worry."

I think this must have been one in a series of problems with this teacher. When I left the school that year to move on to high school, I understand he also left.

What a jerk.

It's early morning here, and I can't think of a better way to start my day, than by reading this. Thanks LibraryLady, for being the person you are!

 

[Mr.D]

rehashing their experience at the hands of a bully and now want all bullies dead.

Not me.

I have no idea whatever happened to my old bullies and don't particularly care; we were just kids acting, playing and socializing like the immature little people we were. A line was crossed to be sure, but they weren't the ones who were supposed to be wise enough to see that line and empowered enough to intervene before that line was reached.

The teachers and administrators of that school are another story.

I save for them the worst possible curse I can think of - that someday they will feel (even for the briefest of moments) desperately alone; utterly, completely, hopelessly and powerlessly alone, and that just at the very instant they get to the point they think they cannot possibly take any more and survive, they come to the realization that they were once responsible for letting a child in their care feel that way.

 

[rjh01]

I do not think teachers are the real people to blame. It is society as a whole. Most people do not know (or is that want to know?) the damage that is done when someone is bullied. That will take a long time to change.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I have grown up thinking I've been bullied quite badly during my childhood years. But reading the experiences of people here, it wasn't that bad after all.

I was lucky that my parents moved and going to a new school I was determined to not end up at the bottom of the ladder again.

I almost fell into the same trap again when some kid started punching me and I just sat there taking it, intimidated. Then I remembered that I'd promised myself not to let this happen again and defended myself. It worked like a charm.
It wasn't even very violent or anything, just the fact that I resisted did the trick. It was a very nice middle class school so the environment wasn't to harsh, I guess.

I could not have turned things around at my previous school, I think. My social position was too well cemented.

Bullying a normal human behavior. Just like rape.
Normal does not mean acceptable.

People here with a bad history of being bullied react rather strongly to suggestions of their behavior having played a big part in them being singled out as victims. But it is the victim's behavior that interests me.
I have young children. We are a nerdy, bookish family and my main interest is arming them for these situations, not getting closure about my own experiences.

What I notice about my own personality:
I'm a dreamer, I'm prone to avoid confrontations, hierarchy-related group dynamics usually escape me (still, at work), I'm intelligent and wish to live in a just society.
Looks like my kids will be somewhat like me.

But the thing with bullying is that it is basically law-of-the-jungle stuff. Justice does not even enter into it. Children live in social environment that has hierarchy-dynamics which adults probably only encounter if they end up in jail. That is: a clear pecking order that does not originate in some pre-conceived system, but rather bluntly is established by seeing who ends up on top and who on the bottom.

In my view, the bully mostly uses the victim to show he's on top. Most kids will act along because they are afraid to become the victim. The victim is essentially a propaganda tool for the bully.

You can feel that it is wrong that you are bullied, that it is injust, that it should not happen. You can even quote the charter of human rights to your bullies. It won't make a difference. It won't help.

Your attitude is superior to those of the bullies. Your kind of thinking has created places like Sweden. The attitude of the bullies has created places like Somalia.

But that is all academic if you are picked as the victim. It is imperative that we look at the world as it really is, not as it should be. it is unethical to give children unrealistic advice about handling these things, just as it is unethical to give people unrealistic advice about self defense (self defense courses for women, I'm looking at you). You wouldn't throw a child into a swimming pool with bogus swimming instructions, would you?

Qayak's and FHA's conclusions are hard and may seem insensitive. I also suspect they are pretty much right. Defending oneself is the only way to stop it if no authority intervenes. And being dependent on the protection of teachers and parents a decidedly less secure and less pleasant situation that just not being at the bottom of the pecking order.

Please understand that I do not mean to belittle the trauma that some of us have suffered. I understand how emotional the issue is and you have my sympathies.

At the time, to me, resistance and violence were unthinkable behavior for me. Completely alien. So I understand.

I also understand the revenge fantasies. If my tormentors were to meet some crappy fate, i would not shed a tear.

 

[AnnieJ]

I do not think teachers are the real people to blame. It is society as a whole. Most people do not know (or is that want to know?) the damage that is done when someone is bullied. That will take a long time to change.

By no means are teachers to take all the responsibility. I think parents of these bullies also deserve some of the credit!

My daughter became the target of a girl that was a previous friend. The girl and her parents came to my home at my invitation to try and work out the situation. They couldn't believe that their daughter would do such a thing. The whole conversation boiled down to lip service and was a waste of time.

Until parents can open their eyes and acknowledge that their children are less than perfect bullying will continue. If our children do bad things we must let them take the responsibility for that and any consequences for their actions.

To add to all of this...the rules and guide lines that sometimes exist in our school systems prevent children from defending themselves. If a child tries to defend themselves they receive the same punishment as the child that started it. Many of these kids that are bullied and picked on are afraid to fight back due to the punishment that they will incur for simply standing up for themselves.

 

[Cainkane1]

Mr. D. I'm so sorry.

I've seen bullying teachers as well. As a matter of fact, one of my proudest moments and the start of healing from bullying was an example.

There was a boy in our class, quite bright but very odd. With hindsight and new information, I'm pretty sure he had Asperger's Syndrome, poor kid. Mr. Foxman, and I use his real name, was explaining how elections work, and said, and this is exactly how I remember it, "Let's take a vote to see if S. is an idiot."

I heard someone say, "Mr. Foxman, you're the idiot." Then I realized I had said it. He threw me out of the class, and since it was last period, I just walked home. My mother was a little surprised to see me and I told her what had happened. She told me that I got any grief for it the next day to call her immediately.

The next morning, sure enough, in the list of kids who had to report to the Vice Principal's office, there was my name.

When I went into the office, the VP, whose name escapes me, looked at me and said, "This does not sound like you. Tell me what happened." And I told him. After a pause, which I then took to be him thinking deeply, but now think was a moment to control his anger, he said, "Go to class, and don't worry."

I think this must have been one in a series of problems with this teacher. When I left the school that year to move on to high school, I understand he also left.

What a jerk.

Will miracles never cease? You mean a Principal actually did the right thing? My Principal had a doctorate in theology which earned him the name Townsend Phd. His greatest crusade in his miseralbe life was to raise hell at a student who failed to say yes sir at the end of a conversation with him.

 

[Cainkane1]

Heres how witnessing a bully effected me. I got out of highschool and I worked my way through college driving an ambulance for a hugh mental hospital. There was a lot of downtime and I could study at work. I became friends with a lady at work who just happened to be the mother of one of the worst bullys at my highschool.

One time at a football game her son who was 6'5" tall and weighed well over two hundred pounds slapped a short skinny guy in the back of the head for no reason. The much smaller kid turned around swinging and the bigger punk beat the slop out of him.

Ok I was 24 and eating lunch with his mother. We got to talking about her son. I had never told her anythong negative about him. She said my boy was a little "bratty" when he was in highschool but he never started anything. He always told me that he was forced to fight little guys because they always wanted to show that they weren't afraid of bigger guys.

I said "ok lady, I hope this doesn't spoil out friendship but thats bull". I proceeded to tell her about that one sided fight her son had picked at the football game and I told her that he did things like that for the fun of it. Her son hung out with another guy who was as big as he was and the tow of them terrorised weaker kids most of which they didn't even know. We never atye lunch together again.

 

[qayak]

People will probably take offense at this too, although I assure you none is intended. I use Mr.D's words only as a general example to illustrate the issue. (Bolding mine)

Originally posted by MrD:

And while those three years pales in comparison to some of the experiences others have written about here, I know I still bear the emotional scars - in the form of substance abuse and a virtually nonexistent love-life.

How do you know the bullying was the cause of these problems? I understand that people want to have a cause for all the bad things in their lives but how do you know.

I also understand that people will ask, "how do you know it didn't cause the problems?" and that is legitimate, but it only illustrates the point that we can't know either way.

My final point is that we all agree that bullying "shouldn't" happen but we all know it does and that it is going to take a long time to eradicate, if we ever do. In the meantime, we have to give our children/grandchildren the skills to deal with bullies. Wanting bullies dead is not an answer because other bullies, held back by the first, will step into their place. Education on skills to deal with it on an individual level is the only answer I see.

 

[Mark6]

My final point is that we all agree that bullying "shouldn't" happen but we all know it does and that it is going to take a long time to eradicate, if we ever do. In the meantime, we have to give our children/grandchildren the skills to deal with bullies. Wanting bullies dead is not an answer because other bullies, held back by the first, will step into their place. Education on skills to deal with it on an individual level is the only answer I see.

My take on it is that in current legal climate, a kid who effective deals with bullies is likely to be punished -- quite possibly more than the bully gets punished. It is not an inherent problem, but it currenlty exists.

 

[sgtbaker]

I understand the need to defend your child, even when you shouldn't, because I've done it. It wasn't a typical bully situation; more of an isolated event between my kids and a couple of neighborhood kids. I will probably never know who started what because there are about 4 different versions. My kids were playing with two other kids that lived in the neighborhood. There is tension between these two that were playing with my kids and two other boys that lived down the road. The two boys were riding their bikes around the neighborhood and each time they passed, words were shared. My son, in his infinite wisdom, decided to grab a golf club and swing at them on their next pass. My oldest daughter came in and alerted me to what my son was doing and I sent the two neighborhood kids home and called my kids in to figure out exactly what went down.

While I am beating my head against the wall, trying to figure out at exactly what point in the day my son's common sense checked out, the mother of the bicycle riders came to my door. Mind you, up until this point, my son was in trouble and was going to go to their house to make a formal apology. She was polite and nonconfrontational, she was just making sure I knew what happened. I don't know what came over me. Out of nowhere, this aggression took over; she had some nerve coming to me and telling me that my son was wrong. I yelled back at her, "Maybe you can try telling your kids not to ride around the neighborhood harassing other kids." and slammed the door in her face. For a few seconds afterwards, I even tried to justify that behavior, to myself. Then I saw this smug look of satisfaction on my son's face.
I sent my son to his room (all electronics are disconnected so being confined to a room is never pleasant), went outside to get my thoughts and try to figure out exactly how to undo the damage. First and foremost, that woman deserved an apology. I took my son and we walked down to her house with my tail between my legs. She was very accepting of my apology and actually confessed that she's found herself in similar situations; where the urge to defend your child trumps your obligation as a parent. My son had to make a formal apology to her sons and he had to explain why it was wrong. They shook hands and agreed that if they couldn't get along, they would say nothing at all. He also had his own punishments at home but my main concern was making it clear to him that I reacted on emotion and there was no defending it. It was a horrible, humiliating experience. However, and I don't know if anyone experienced anything similar but it's a weird thing when someone comes to you with something negative about your child. Especially when, until that point, you felt you've taught them better.