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Being a racist while having a soft skull

I thought wrong-think was a medical diagnosis.

Like when you crack your head on the floor and your brain is bleeding and swelling, causing unconsciousness and eventual death.
 
p0lka said:
attacking people because they said rude words to you is not ok.

Do people not learn
'sticks and stones may break my bones
but names will never harm me'
anymore.
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Do you, or anyone else, think that is true?

Because it's a fairly insidious little piece of nonsense that is taught to kids - often those on the receiving end of bullying - that is functionally equivalent to telling them to 'man up and stop being little wusses'.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Do you, or anyone else, think that is true?

Because it's a fairly insidious little piece of nonsense that is taught to kids - often those on the receiving end of bullying - that is functionally equivalent to telling them to 'man up and stop being little wusses'.
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I’d say the laws in most countries shows that we know it isn’t true, some speech is indeed harmful and we do legislate against it, yet for some reason many people have a view that speech is not an action.

(And if it helps save some folk some time - I know the knee jerk reactions to my comments.)
 
As always I see the same people are here to be super-dooper concerned that the racist is dead that either aren't concerned or writing apologetic fan fiction about it when racists are the ones doing the killing.
 
I'm super-dooper concerned or saddened that the victim of an old man's disgusting, toxic ravings ended up being charged with a felony because he couldn't control himself.
 
Shadowdweller said:
I'm super-dooper concerned or saddened that the victim of an old man's disgusting, toxic ravings ended up being charged with a felony because he couldn't control himself.
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Lost control or made a deliberate choice? If he couldn't control himself, what was he, psychotic or something? I didn't see that. Doesn't matter, either way. Battering and/or killing geriatrics in coffee shops over words is a bad thing, in pretty much any case.. But some here think killing senior citizens for being ******** is a big thumbs up.

We do have some fan fic for him to go ape **** over, though:

All available news reports said:
referring to the use of the slur:...Pujols asked the man to repeat it
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fan fic said:
"Say that again, I dare you" is not cool or collected.
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more fan fic said:
Victim: *aggressively* "Shut ya' face ****** (n-word)!!

Pujols: *more aggressively* "You wanna repeat that!!!"

Victim: *even more aggressively* "I said shut ya' face ******!!

Pujols: WHACK!!!
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This is not calling out those posters, btw. What is dishonestly called 'fan fic' is used universally. The grown ups know this.
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Do you, or anyone else, think that is true?

Because it's a fairly insidious little piece of nonsense that is taught to kids - often those on the receiving end of bullying - that is functionally equivalent to telling them to 'man up and stop being little wusses'.
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Which is advice a lot of people could use.

I would prefer, "Grow up", though, to be more inclusive.
 
Thermal said:
As should anybody be. But some here think killing mother ******* for misdemeanors is a big thumbs up.

We do have some fan fic for him to go ape **** over, though:







This is not calling out those posters, btw. What is dishonestly called 'fan fic' is used universally. The grown ups know this.
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What in the blue hell are you talking about? What I said is true. It's not "fan fic" as I'm not a fan of anyone in this story, nor is it some weird hypothetical.
 
Belz... said:
What in the blue hell are you talking about? What I said is true. It's not "fan fic" as I'm not a fan of anyone in this story, nor is it some weird hypothetical.
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Of course it's true. What JM calls alternative universe fan fic is the same type of thing, used in the same way.

And it absolutely was a hypothetical, straight up. You posed a hypothetical rewording of the reports that changed the context. We all do so, to make different points. And none of us are fans of anyone here.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Do you, or anyone else, think that is true?

Because it's a fairly insidious little piece of nonsense that is taught to kids - often those on the receiving end of bullying - that is functionally equivalent to telling them to 'man up and stop being little wusses'.
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Exactly !

Just because attacks aren't physical, doesn't mean that they're not real. Likely there's a big overlap between the "sticks and stones" people and those people who think people with mental health issues should just pull themselves together. :mad:

Undermining and belittling someone at every turn isn't really a problem, it's only an attack if you give them a shiner.

IMO the effects of psychological attacks can last far, far longer than the effects of physical attacks in some (many ?) cases. A broken bone can heal in weeks and be stronger than it was before. Victims of racism can carry the effects for the rest of their lives.
 
He said weird hypothetical. Supposing ‘say that again’ was at least as likely said in boiling offense, as in calm collection (also fanfic by this standard) is not grasping-at-straws material.
 
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I'm sorry why didn't the 77 year old man just run faster away from the guy? I mean it's like he wanted to die.

Let's talk about that for 40 pages and then have a hissy fit when someone asks why we are talking about it.
 
Meadmaker said:
"Dynamic" is fine, but I think the answer for violence is no, at least not without a threat present. If the accused wants to mount a case that this was a case of "fighting words", but in the legal definition, he can try. In the legal definition, the application of "fighting words" has been restricted to verbal activity that makes a reasonable person believe that an attack is imminent. If he can claim that he felt the 77 year old dude was going to punch him, and his punch was just preemptive self defense, then he's got a case.

I think in my youth violence on the level of a punch or a fistfight was more tolerated, but today, I think the answer is that it is never acceptable without self defense, and I think the world is a better place because of the change.
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I agree broadly with what you say here. "fighting words" has a long history of being at odds with the first amendment, and current jurisprudence has largely relegated such notions to irrelevance, legally speaking.

From a purely practical standpoint, I feel pretty confident that our dearly departed definitely intended to evoke a response, even a violent response, when he entered the lobby to racially abuse the staff. Looks like he got exactly what he wanted, and hard. Good for him, I hope he was satisfied.

I have hard time thinking of our dead racist as a victim. Seems pretty clear to me that he was a willing participant in a confrontation that any reasonable person would expect could easily become violent. I get that, as a society, we want to punish such violence, even violence that is mutually agreed upon by both parties.

The law requires that people not take the bait, even from odious racists, and in that way our puncher failed.
 
Thermal said:
Of course it's true. What JM calls alternative universe fan fic is the same type of thing, used in the same way.

And it absolutely was a hypothetical, straight up. You posed a hypothetical rewording of the reports that changed the context. We all do so, to make different points. And none of us are fans of anyone here.
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I still have no idea what you're saying. But it wasn't a hypothetical: I was countering the assertion that asking someone to repeat their slur somehow means they're cool and collected, in the same way I countered the assertion that someone not running as fast as the ******* space shuttle means their life wasn't in danger.
 
Oh, we have a random qualifier for 'weird'? Tell me about it. Examples might clarify.

The police report wording, as paraphrased by media, was that Puljols asked the old man to repeat that. Nothing about yelling at each other or escalation or any aggression on the part of Pujols. Any emotional add-ons are fan fic.

If y'all are so casual about inserting emotive dialogue, how about we throw some more in there and see how long that flies unchallenged? Want me to start?

I'm going to reconstruct the dialogue, too. I pose the slur could have been 'boy'. That's a slur when directed at a black man, agreed? It's also a way that an old guy might refer to young men in general, no racial overtones intended.

Is the old man still the vile bastard he is being made out to be?
 
Thermal said:
Oh, we have a random qualifier for 'weird'? Tell me about it. Examples might clarify.

The police report wording, as paraphrased by media, was that Puljols asked the old man to repeat that. Nothing about yelling at each other or escalation or any aggression on the part of Pujols. Any emotional add-ons are fan fic.
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Hey, pay attention: I didn't ADD anything. I pointed out that the assertion about asking someone to repeat oneself MEANS THEY ARE COOL AND COLLECTED. It doesn't, and I provided AN EXAMPLE to illustrate my point.

It's not my fault if you didn't understand anything I posted.
 
Belz... said:
I still have no idea what you're saying. But it wasn't a hypothetical: I was countering the assertion that asking someone to repeat their slur somehow means they're cool and collected, in the same way I countered the assertion that someone not running as fast as the ******* space shuttle means their life wasn't in danger.
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Another dishonest one.
To refresh: I never said a word about Arbery being able to run fast enough.

I said a runner covers a lot of ground in 8 minutes, to point out that posters who claimed he was 'exhausted from running for his life for 8 minutes' didn't notice that he covered a couple hundred yards total (with the NYT reconstructed back and forth) in that time, which another poster noted was only about a walking pace.

It's great if you want to argue, but let's keep it within striking distance of honesty, shall we?
 
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