Being a racist while having a soft skull

[theprestige]

Neither is it fully the fault of the cashier then, as he didn't plan this murder, and in the heat of the moment he felt he had to react violently, probably based on his upbringing and life experiences, just as the old man felt he had to be confrontational with his racist outburst instead of resisting his urge.

He's welcome to try that defense in court if he likes. As far as I'm concerned, it's full of ****.

 

[p0lka]

Pujols said he then punched the man once in the face, which knocked him out and caused him to hit his head on the floor.

attacking people because they said rude words to you is not ok.

Do people not learn
'sticks and stones may break my bones
but names will never harm me'
anymore.

 

[Thermal]

Pujols might be able to use Florida State Statute 782.03 as a defence

782.03 Excusable homicide
Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.​

I think he would fail on that claim, because he had the calmness and presence of mind to ask the coot to repeat it before unloading on him. That shows deliberate, cooly calculated intent.

 

[smartcooky]

attacking people because they said rude words to you is not ok.

Do people not learn
'sticks and stones may break my bones
but names will never harm me'
anymore.

Yeah, racial slurs are a bit more than just "rude words". Using them can often carry consequences; loss of job or status, expulsion from schools or universities, banning from sports events etc. In some countries, those consequences are imposed by the law itself.

 

[Belz...]

Is your mind always in the gutter?

Hey, it's not my fault you used the wrong word.

 

[angrysoba]

To be clear, I’m absolutely against punching elderly people for any reason.

However, ST has a good legal point, if it’s legal to chase down and kill a teenager for walking while black, and it is in Florida, then this should be legal as well.

Indeed, and neither should be legal.

 

[smartcooky]

I think he would fail on that claim, because he had the calmness and presence of mind to ask the coot to repeat it before unloading on him. That shows deliberate, cooly calculated intent.

Was it coolness and calmness though? For example

Victim: *aggressively* "Shut ya' face ****** (n-word)!!

Pujols: *more aggressively* "You wanna repeat that!!!"

Victim: *even more aggressively* "I said shut ya' face ******!!

Pujols: WHACK!!!

If this is anything like it played out, the defense could easily argue that Pujols gave the victim an opportunity to back away from what he said. Rather than taking that opportunity, the victim chose to aggressively ramp up the provocation by repeating the racial slur.

I'm not arguing for Pujols, I'm just commenting that the defense might probably try this, and IMO, if has a non-zero chance of being successful.

 

[Belz...]

He's welcome to try that defense in court if he likes. As far as I'm concerned, it's full of ****.

Yeah those blacks are just violent, man. The old white dude is just a man of his generation; couldn't help it.

(Yes, I know you didn't say that, but it's strange how well it aligns.)

I think he would fail on that claim, because he had the calmness and presence of mind to ask the coot to repeat it before unloading on him. That shows deliberate, cooly calculated intent.

No it doesn't. "Say that again, I dare you" is not cool or collected.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The train is moving right on schedule. Next stop: preemptively killing people you know posted something racist. Then, killing people you're pretty sure are racists. Three cheers for killing an old coot in broad daylight over a slur! It's a Brave New World.

This growing sense of righteous vigilantism concerns me quite a bit.

We should skip the gulag phase and go straight to lining people up on a wall and shooting them. Saves us the cost of having to build a bunch of prison barracks out in rural Maine.

I wish I thought you were joking, but I don't really.

 

[mgidm86]

A comment with regards to the trespassing. I'd assume it's a legal grey area.

This wasn't just a Dunkin Donuts building. It was a gas station with a Dunkin Donuts counter\drive-thru. Just because Dunkin asked him to leave does not mean he couldn't be on the premises, just that they wouldn't be serving him. At this point, there's nothing to at all to say the older man was trespassing. Read the article, it states the setup in the article I linked.

The trespassing thing is a way for business folk to get an unwanted person off their property. This is common in bars, for one.

"I told you to leave and you have not done so. You are now trespassing and I will call the cops and have you removed"

I've used it before. Whether these people are actually arrested, I do not know. They always leave at that point. It's effective.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I mean really what's the discussion here? It would be great if everyone could just put their cards on the table and say what they mean.

Yeah it's not good that a 77 year old racists was killed.

It's not as bad as a 77 year old not-racists being killed.

"Killing people is really bad, m'kay? Unless they have wrong-think, then it's only sorta bad."

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is not the first time members of this forum have expressed support or tacit approval for political violence. The trend is not reassuring.

It's far more common than I would prefer. The allowance of advocating for political violence on this site is also not reassuring.

 

[mgidm86]

I was in a comic book store 30 years ago when a young man burst out swearing. He said many things, including "******* (N-word)!!!" There was a black guy working at the counter ten feet away.

I gave that cashier a look and he said with a wink, "He has Tourette...we love him", and we laughed a little. He was annoyed but whaddyagonnado?

If the old guy in this thread had dimentia or similar then what? Oops? One word does not a raging racist make. He may very well be, but some are being way too quick to judge.

He was recognized as a regular customer. Was this the first time he'd done such a thing?

I also can understand the suspect wanting to punch such a person, but it was wrong, period.

 

[Meadmaker]

I also can understand the suspect wanting to punch such a person, but it was wrong, period.

It's unfortunate that he will pay such a heavy price for feeling entitled. He thought he was just going to cause a little pain, maybe a bloody nose, and teach that guy a lesson. Instead, a huge chunk of his life is going to suck really bad.


For ST and anyone else who is happy about the outcome with regards to the not-so-dear departed, just think about how your actions may have contributed to the young man's actions. I'm sure that a lot of people told that young man that racists are bad people and ought to be punched in the face. Those people don't have to pay the price that he will pay.

 

[smartcooky]

This is not the first time members of this forum have expressed support or tacit approval for political violence. The trend is not reassuring.

Indeed, we have seen a number of Trump supporters on this site OK with Trump saying...

• It's OK for cops to "bump" the heads of suspect as they put them in the car
• It's OK to beat up a heckler, because he (Trump) will front his legal bills (and fat chance of the former)
• It's OK to use violence on BLM protesters, but
• "There are very fine people, on both sides" when a member of one of those sides just murdered someone and injured several others by driving their car into a crowd of peaceful protesters.

Yeah, the endorsement of political violence is strong on the right in this forum. Of course, one guy punching another because the other guy was repeatedly insulting him and directing racial slurs at him is not political violence... its just violence.

Incidentally, directing slurs and insults at people, and demeaning them is psychological and emotional abuse, which go hand in hand with violence.

 

[dirtywick]

Good point. Calling this political violence is saying a racial slur is a political position.

 

[Venom]

I don't know the politics of either person. For all I know they could be apolitical. The situation certainly was. It was an old, racist white man insulting a young black man and the black man became violent in response.

Not political violence, just violence. I know it's getting more popular in this country to "politicize" everything based on perceptions of who is in what team...what a mess.

 

[arthwollipot]

attacking people because they said rude words to you is not ok.

Do people not learn
'sticks and stones may break my bones
but names will never harm me'
anymore.

I prefer "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can disenfranchise and marginalise."

 

[casebro]

I wonder what other symptoms of senile dementia the old guy displayed?

Autopsy report perhaps?

 

[theprestige]

Yeah those blacks are just violent, man. The old white dude is just a man of his generation; couldn't help it.

(Yes, I know you didn't say that, but it's strange how well it aligns.)

(The only strangeness is that it doesn't align at all. You know what aligns really well? Individuals are responsible for the individual choices they make. If they choose to repay words with violence, that's on them, not their upbringing or their society or their station in life.

I'm not sure where you got that racist claptrap from, but it wasn't me.

I think Venom's formulation is also racist claptrap, that denies black people their moral agency and responsibility as individuals who make choices.)