Be a good little atheist...

Gawdzilla said:
Nice strawman. Polls show the Merkins trust atheists less than they trust gays. And they would never elect an atheist president. Pure prejudice.
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No strawman - I live in the Bible belt, and even the state I am in has Labor laws to stop some of the claims being used here.

So all these people losing their jobs because they were athiest, did they not bring a case?

Why not?
 
MG1962 said:
No strawman - I live in the Bible belt, and even the state I am in has Labor laws to stop some of the claims being used here.

So all these people losing their jobs because they were athiest, did they not bring a case?

Why not?
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Ask Slingblade. You have a first-person story there. And labor laws are good, but you know they don't cover all situations. Some states forbid people from holding public office if they don't profess a belief in a higher power of some sort.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Ask Slingblade. You have a first-person story there. And labor laws are good, but you know they don't cover all situations. Some states forbid people from holding public office if they don't profess a belief in a higher power of some sort.
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So all the examples we have here are of people wanting to become politicans?
 
Gawdzilla said:
Some states forbid people from holding public office if they don't profess a belief in a higher power of some sort.
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All such laws are unconstitutional. The problem is getting the votes. I suspect for atheist politicians, it's just one more thing to lie about.
 
MG1962 said:
Operative word, so actually you dont know either way and just assume
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Tell you what, move to South Carolina, where I live, and put a sign in your front yard announcing that your home belongs to a proud atheist. In short order, you will start feeling persecuted...and possibly in fear for your life. Wiccans are better liked than atheists, and I saw what happened to the Wiccan in Great Falls who called attention to herself.

America isn't the world, but it is my world. It wouldn't be the majority of Christians in my town persecuting you, but it doesn't take a majority to persecute someone. All it takes is you being a member of an openly disliked minority, some members of the majority who really hate your group, and enough who disapprove of your group to make the haters feel their actions are legitimate.

America has a large Christian majority with a strong strain of fundamentalism. It's nice that I can be more open about my opinion on the existence of God that I would be in an Islamic theocracy; but that's setting the bar awfully low isn't it?

Real persecution of atheists is rare because most of us are careful about how, where, and to whom we present ourselves. We don't have readily-identified characteristics or easy-to-locate communities. I believe that over time, thanks to more exposure to us, we'll be more tolerated, which will allow us to be more open. Some day, if I want (not really my style), I'll be able to put that sign up without fear. We're not there, yet.
 
MG1962 said:
And Slingblade can not be a teacher anywhere else in America or the world because of it?
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I can't be a scoutmaster anywhere in America. I was volunteering at community center (faith-based, btw) and was asked to help them start a boy scout troop. I had to turn them down, because the Boy Scouts in America do not accept atheists as scoutmasters. Male volunteers are scarce and they never did get scouting started there; which is a shame because I think scouting has a lot to offer, especially to underprivileged children.

If it was not a policy of the scouts, the conversation may have gone something like this: 'We're trying to start a scout troop and we're hoping you would be the scoutmaster!' 'I'd be honored, thanks! Uhm, it wouldn't be a problem that I'm an atheist, would it?' ' 'Oh, no, I'm sure that won't be a problem!' Three weeks later: 'Hey, y'know it turns out we aren't really prepared to start a scout troop right now. We really appreciate you offering, though!'

In this hypothetical I have been discriminated against (not to mention the loss to the children). That I can find another place to be a scoutmaster does not alter this fact or make it okay or diminish the bigotry involved. It is probably illegal (in the hypothetical world where the Boy Scouts are not allowed to openly discriminate against atheists), but without evidence that my atheism is the reason they changed their mind; I don't have any kind of court case.

And here's the worst thing about your comment: if you made the same kind of claim that white people don't discriminate against black people there's no decent company that would agree that is an okay thing to say; but in a majority Christian country it's okay to say that atheists aren't really discriminated against because hey, they can get some kind of job, right?
 
Mister Agenda said:
I can't be a scoutmaster anywhere in America. I was volunteering at community center (faith-based, btw) and was asked to help them start a boy scout troop. I had to turn them down, because the Boy Scouts in America do not accept atheists as scoutmasters. Male volunteers are scarce and they never did get scouting started there; which is a shame because I think scouting has a lot to offer, especially to underprivileged children.

If it was not a policy of the scouts, the conversation may have gone something like this: 'We're trying to start a scout troop and we're hoping you would be the scoutmaster!' 'I'd be honored, thanks! Uhm, it wouldn't be a problem that I'm an atheist, would it?' ' 'Oh, no, I'm sure that won't be a problem!' Three weeks later: 'Hey, y'know it turns out we aren't really prepared to start a scout troop right now. We really appreciate you offering, though!'

In this hypothetical I have been discriminated against (not to mention the loss to the children). That I can find another place to be a scoutmaster does not alter this fact or make it okay or diminish the bigotry involved. It is probably illegal (in the hypothetical world where the Boy Scouts are not allowed to openly discriminate against atheists), but without evidence that my atheism is the reason they changed their mind; I don't have any kind of court case.

And here's the worst thing about your comment: if you made the same kind of claim that white people don't discriminate against black people there's no decent company that would agree that is an okay thing to say; but in a majority Christian country it's okay to say that atheists aren't really discriminated against because hey, they can get some kind of job, right?
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Actually, the BSA requires any adult helper (not just scout master) to sign a "belief statement" that says (paraphrasing): one must have a religious belief of some sort to become a decent, moral person. A statement very similar to that required to join the VFW. This type of discrimination is actually protected by the Constitution, as these are private organizations. I think that was what you were saying, but your story gotta gave mixed signals there :)
 
Malerin said:
NAMBLA members can totally sympathize with this rant.

You have an unpopular belief. If you want to share it with people, be prepared for some negative reactions.

I brought this up before, when a thread like this started a few months ago: what would the reaction be if a Christian working at a predominately atheist business started talking about Christ's resrurrection at lunch? I'm sure they'd get that promotion they were gunning for! :rolleyes:
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NAMBLA members advocate something illegal and dangerous. Your comparison illustrates the intolerance we're talking about.

In your example, the hypothetical atheists would be wrong to deny someone who is best qualified for a promotion because of their religious beliefs. It's wrong no matter who is on the short end of the stick. The difference between us is that we're not trying to justify this sort of behavior. Between us, who do you think is more likely to discriminate against someone who doesn't agree us on a non work-related matter?

I'm a manager. I supervise around forty people. The only time religion has ever affected one of my hiring or promotion decisions was when I overheard someone praying before an interview. It sounded very sincere and gave me the impression the guy really needed this job. He was up against someone that was a very even match and I could only hire one. I gave the job to the guy that I heard praying, in hopes that his performance would match his desire for the job (he turned out to be so-so, but for all I know the other guy might have been worse, hiring is a crap-shoot).

Discrimination isn't always wrong (I don't have much sympathy for KKK or NAMBLA members), but even when I don't think it's wrong, I would follow the law. I think Christians should, too. Don't you?
 
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