Merged AZ Gov Signs Immigration Bill

[Ausmerican]

What are these "papers" that folks in Arizona are supposed to be carrying? The only form of ID I carry on my person is my driver's license, which doesn't mention my "status". Are people in Arizona now required to carry something else?

A drivers license wont work. You can have a drivers license without being a citizen. I do. Also, in Arizona, the licenses go or a long time. Like, until you are 65. Mine doesnt expire for over 20 years rom now.

So, you could be legally here and get a license, then when you overstay you will still have it. Green card? Nope That leads to the whole 'Born in East L.A.' plotline.

 

[WildCat]

A drivers license wont work. You can have a drivers license without being a citizen. I do. Also, in Arizona, the licenses go or a long time. Like, until you are 65. Mine doesnt expire for over 20 years rom now.

For real? I never heard of a d/l that was valid for so long. It's 4 years in Illinois before you have to renew, same with a state ID.

 

[MG1962]

What are these "papers" that folks in Arizona are supposed to be carrying? The only form of ID I carry on my person is my driver's license, which doesn't mention my "status". Are people in Arizona now required to carry something else?

Thats the area people are seeking clarification. It has been reported that Arizona want a secondary form of ID - aside from Green Cards, produced by Homeland Security.

And as you correctly point out. How do citizens prove their status on the spot if a drivers license is no longer going to be good enough

 

[Alt+F4]

You have to be a legal resident to get a driver's license. A valid d/l or state ID should be enough proof. And the overwhelming majority of police contacts with civilians are traffic stops.

I don't know about Arizona but in New York State you can drive with a valid license from another country.

 

[barrymore]

Maybe you'd see the problem if your department started recruiting illegal immigrants to become police officers at half the pay. Then they offer to allow you to stay... at half the pay and no benefits. You say no and quit, and then they say "well we can't find any Americans to do this job, we have to have more immigration to fill these jobs Americans won't do".

Americans will do any job if it pays well enough. Illegal immigration drives down wages in agriculture, construction, landscaping... in whatever industries they're employed.

I remmeber a few years back during the Prop 187 thing a California farmer saying that Americans won't work in his fields, even though he was paying $10/hr. That's because the market demands wages be higher than $10/hr, after all you could work in McDonald's for $10/hr and not have to work in the hot sun bent over all day. If he paid $15 or $20/hr, he would have no trouble finding legal workers.

Those who support illegal immigration "to do the jobs Americans won't" are ony doing one thing - exploiting foreign workers for their own selfish benefit.

There is no such thing as a job Americans won't do, you just have to pay the market wage.

Few people support ILLEGAL immigration. The majority of immigration laws are stupid, counterproductive, and not to mention, nationalist. What I do support is the lessening and repealing of many of these laws and regulations. And, I am also not going to shed a tear over most immigration because I believe ILLEGAL immigration is quite bogus in itself. Administrations love to push immigration as a relevant issue for direct political gain as well as to divert attention away from issues that actually matter. Immigration affects only a small percentage of the population, yet people get all riled up about it for some reason.

 

[WildCat]

Few people support ILLEGAL immigration. The majority of immigration laws are stupid, counterproductive, and not to mention, nationalist. What I do support is the lessening and repealing of many of these laws and regulations. And, I am also not going to shed a tear over most immigration because I believe ILLEGAL immigration is quite bogus in itself. Administrations love to push immigration as a relevant issue for direct political gain as well as to divert attention away from issues that actually matter. Immigration affects only a small percentage of the population, yet people get all riled up about it for some reason.

Illegal immigration affects many people. It affects me personally.

I'm in the home repair business, and illegal immigration drives down wages. I haven't had a raise since the mid-1990s even though my skills and expertise have increased dramatically since then. I get no benefits at all. And it is illegal immigration which keeps wages and benefits down.

I'm sure you love the benfits that come with exploiting foreign workers for cheap labor in the US, but I bet you'd feel different if it was your industry that was affected.

 

[barrymore]

Illegal immigration affects many people. It affects me personally.

I'm in the home repair business, and illegal immigration drives down wages. I haven't had a raise since the mid-1990s even though my skills and expertise have increased dramatically since then. I get no benefits at all. And it is illegal immigration which keeps wages and benefits down.

I'm sure you love the benfits that come with exploiting foreign workers for cheap labor in the US, but I bet you'd feel different if it was your industry that was affected.

But the legality of that immigration has no bearing on that. It is fair to say that there would be less immigration, but how much less is up for debate.

What is your stance on immigration in general?

 

[Alt+F4]

It also makes it a state crime — a misdemeanor — to not carry immigration papers.

If you were born in the United States how the heck are you going to have "immigration papers?

 

[WildCat]

But the legality of that immigration has no bearing on that. It is fair to say that there would be less immigration, but how much less is up for debate.

Absolute nonsense. Legal immigration is capped, and this cap limits the economic impact. Legal immigrants have to demonstrate thay have a job skill which the domestic market can't satisfy.

What is your stance on immigration in general?

I have no problem with legal immigration. What I have a problem with is masses of illegal immigrants flooding the job market and dragging down wages and benefits.

What industry do you work in barrymore? Wouldn't it be great if your company could eliminate benefits and slash wages by hiring people from impoverished countries to take your place?

 

[MG1962]

Absolute nonsense. Legal immigration is capped, and this cap limits the economic impact. Legal immigrants have to demonstrate thay have a job skill which the domestic market can't satisfy.

And except for the diversity lottery, that cap has not been reached in years

 

[Thunder]

the job of police officers to is to save lives. not to enforce immigration laws.

i sympathize with the need to send a message to the Feds, but this is not the way.

 

[Alt+F4]

Legal immigrants have to demonstrate thay have a job skill which the domestic market can't satisfy.

Most of them don't. The majority of legal immigration to the U.S. is by family-sponsored visas. Add to that the diversity lottery, refugges and asylum seekers and the number is much, much higher than those who immigrate here through employment-sponsored visas.

In fact, in 2009 employment-based immigration was only 13% of total.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/lpr_fr_2009.pdf

 

[Thunder]

I have no problem with legal immigration. What I have a problem with is masses of illegal immigrants flooding the job market and dragging down wages and benefits.

so why don't you rat on all your neighbors, relatives, and friends, who hire illegals to clean their homes, mow their lawns, and care for their kids?

why don't you stop by the local Home Depot and conduct a citizens arrest of illegal day laborers?

thought not.

 

[Ausmerican]

For real? I never heard of a d/l that was valid for so long. It's 4 years in Illinois before you have to renew, same with a state ID.

Yes the DL system here seems quite unique. You just have to update the picture every now and then. Also when you change address you can get your new license sent to your new address and do it all online. Couple that with the new picture and I am sure you can see the ID theft pontenial built into the system.

The way to stop a lot of the immigration is to stop the jobs. If you crack down on the employers of the immigrants and they get to know there wont be jobs to come to the better life wont look so much better.

Yes it will increase costs for these businesses when they have to hire three legal employees at $15 an hour rather than three illegals at <$5. But it will also lower unemployment and impriove the economy by having three more working people with money to spend and taxes to pay.

If these increased costs are too much and the company goes under, well then it was never really viable anyway was it?

 

[WildCat]

Most of them don't. The majority of legal immigration to the U.S. is by family-sponsored visas. Add to that the diversity lottery, refugges and asyleesand the number is much, much higher than those who immigrate here through employment-sponsored visas.

I was addreessing the claim that illegal immigration is necessary to fill jobs "Americans won't do", which sems to be the number one claim of those who really just want a supply of cheap domestic labor to exploit.

 

[WildCat]

so why don't you rat on all your neighbors, relatives, and friends, who hire illegals to clean their homes, mow their lawns, and care for their kids?

why don't you stop by the local Home Depot and conduct a citizens arrest of illegal day laborers?

thought not.

And to whom would I complain? Chicago is a "refugee city".

 

[Thunder]

right, Im sure millions of Americans would be happy to pick oranges and other fruits, in the hot fields of California.

illegals do jobs Americans don't want to do, for wages they don't want to get paid.

if we paid illegals the wages they should get, prices for fruits and veges would skyrocket.

so you can either have your cheap yummies with illegal labor...or expensive yummies with legal labor...maybe.

 

[Thunder]

And to whom would I complain? Chicago is a "refugee city".

leave Chicago. drive to some Home Depot outside the city, and grab and cuff the first illegal day-laborer you see.

do your part, Wildcat. Godspeed.

 

[WildCat]

The way to stop a lot of the immigration is to stop the jobs. If you crack down on the employers of the immigrants and they get to know there wont be jobs to come to the better life wont look so much better.

Yes it will increase costs for these businesses when they have to hire three legal employees at $15 an hour rather than three illegals at <$5. But it will also lower unemployment and impriove the economy by having three more working people with money to spend and taxes to pay.

If these increased costs are too much and the company goes under, well then it was never really viable anyway was it?

I don't disagree with any of this. Frankly I think any business that hires illegals should lose their licenses, and these licenses need to be attached to the owners so they can't just change the company name when caught.

 

[WildCat]

right, Im sure millions of Americans would be happy to pick oranges and other fruits, in the hot fields of California.

illegals do jobs Americans don't want to do, for wages they don't want to get paid.

if we paid illegals the wages they should get, prices for fruits and veges would skyrocket.

so you can either have your cheap yummies with illegal labor...or expensive yummies with legal labor...maybe.

See what I mean? People want cheap foreign labor to exploit. I doubt the price of fruits and veggies would go up by more than a few cents per pound, the cost of picking is a tiny percentage of the consumer market price. Most of that is the cost of transportation and storage.