Australian Federal Election 2010

[a_unique_person]

Conservation is not a political issue? Especially when it is affected by increased CO2 levels, which increase the toxicity of many plants, and warming, which will further stress a species that is already suffering from a massive loss of habitat.

As for your JAQing off, I'll leave you to enjoy that in peace.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Interesting that you (and others) would call it JAQing off when actually asking valid questions. Questions that go directly to the claims made by the PM and others, questions that go to the very heart of the reason for the tax.

This tax will do nothing to mitigate climate change yet you insult everyone's intelligence - including your own - by dodging the most valid question of them all on this issue.

Disgraceful.


Meanwhile Gillard in trouble with the sporting powerhouses of the AFL and NRL:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mo...er-julia-gillard/story-fn7x8me2-1226145360308

PRIME Minister Julia Gillard faces a damaging AFL revolt over pokies reforms with club presidents calling crisis talks tomorrow over the changes.

Wilkie has promised to withdraw support if reforms are not delivered next year (May I think). If he withdraws support anything can happen.

 

[a_unique_person]

The AFL is a business worth billions, yet it still has to rely on stealing money from addicts. Wilkie is not proposing a ban on pokies, just managing the harm they are causing many thousands of people around the country, just as we do with drugs, alcohol, tobacco and speeding. The gambling industry in Australia is now becoming feral and rapacious in it's greed, and it's the addicts it targets to get much of it's profits.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Emotional claptrap aside, how do you think the AFL, NRL, RSLs etc should respond to something that will undermine their bottom line? Don't get me wrong on this either, I am no fan of poker machines - like any addiction they can do irreparable damage.

The point I was making above is that Gillard is wedged between Wilkie and her non negotiable promise to him and the Clubs that also support her - not to mention her backbenchers who are feeling more heat on this than the carbon dioxide tax.

This has the potential to bring the government down and all you do is heap scorn on what you consider the greedy non profit organisations that do much for the communities they serve. Julia made a deal with Wilkie she will probably be unable to meet; yet as usual others are to blame for her deception. She obviously can do no wrong.

 

[a_unique_person]

Emotional claptrap aside, how do you think the AFL, NRL, RSLs etc should respond to something that will undermine their bottom line? Don't get me wrong on this either, I am no fan of poker machines - like any addiction they can do irreparable damage.

The point I was making above is that Gillard is wedged between Wilkie and her non negotiable promise to him and the Clubs that also support her - not to mention her backbenchers who are feeling more heat on this than the carbon dioxide tax.

This has the potential to bring the government down and all you do is heap scorn on what you consider the greedy non profit organisations that do much for the communities they serve. Julia made a deal with Wilkie she will probably be unable to meet; yet as usual others are to blame for her deception. She obviously can do no wrong.

Emotional claptrap aside, the gambling industry is doing enormous harm to addicts, their families, and those close to them, including sending businesses broke, and it is become more predatory and rapacious.

The AFL has billions of dollars, it has become an industry of greed now, they just happen to have a product called football.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

The AFL is a non profit organisation, the RSL's are non profit organisations, governments are as addicted to poker machines as an other. I would go so far as to say that none of these clubs have billions of dollars and I am not certain how many machines the AFL themselves own. The owners of the machines are some of the clubs themselves (eg Collingwood, Hawthorn etc), nor do they have billions of dollars.

Wilkie's fix will not stop the true addicts from gambling as they will simply go online. True addicts always find ways - you might like to note that drugs are illegal, yet we have many problems; that prohibition did not cure the USA from its alcoholism; in fact regulation rarely has the impact you might hope for.

All that aside, because they are an aside; your emotional arguments are just that - emotional. They are also closely aligned with wails of "what about the children!" Moreover, your claims are inaccurate at best.

The point here is that this issue might just bring Gillard down. If she does fall it will be by her own hand for making promises to Wilkie she could not keep.

Pathetically Interestingly she (and you) blame everyone and anyone but her (and her government) for the numerous personal and professional failings we have seen in only 12 months.

Worst PM ever!

 

[a_unique_person]

The AFL is a non profit organisation, the RSL's are non profit organisations, governments are as addicted to poker machines as an other. Most clubs do not have billions of dollars and I am not certain how many the AFL themselves own. The owners of the machines are some of the clubs themselves (eg Collingwood, Hawthorn etc), they do not have billions of dollars.

Wilkie's fix will not stop the true addicts from gambling as they will simply go online.

All that aside, because they are an aside; your emotional arguments are just that - emotional and closely aligned wails of "what about the children". Moreover, your claims are inaccurate at best.

The problem is that this issue might just bring Gillard down. If she does fall it will be by her own hand for making promises to Wilkie she could not keep.
Pathetically Interestingly she (and you) blame everyone and anyone but her and her government for her numerous failings.

Worst PM ever!

AFL a non profit organisation. There are a lot of people making plenty of profits.

The research shows that managing pokies works.

I'm no great fan of the Gillard Government, or Labor in general for many years now, it is just absurd that a man that threatens to 'turn around boats' is seriously considered to not be appealing to basic fear and racism for votes. In a race to the bottom, the Liberals are still way out in the lead, but no one seems to notice that.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

I was as surprised as you are about the AFL. Your dog is laughing back at you. My point in there was lost on you though that it is the small clubs that will suffer.

As for the Libs winning the race, Graham Richardson thinks otherwise.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ers-more-failure/story-e6frgd0x-1226143958850

And that is what really burns me up. How is it possible that Labor could get to a point where it was out-rednecking the Coalition on refugees? Where is this great party of principle? Does any true believer think Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke or Paul Keating would have signed up to this? The only win Labor has had in the past 12 months is in this mad race to the bottom on asylum-seekers.

So Labor aren't winning the race, they have won it.
Thanks for raising this race again.

 

[a_unique_person]

Eddie McGuire is a liar, pure and simple. This is not a 'tax'. The Government gets nothing from managing problem gambling, in fact, it will reduce government income from gambling. It will also not stop people using pokies, it will not close down clubs, it will help prevent businesses going broke from theft, it will help families suffering from gambling abuse.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

repeat

As for the Libs winning the race, Graham Richardson thinks otherwise.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ers-more-failure/story-e6frgd0x-1226143958850

And that is what really burns me up. How is it possible that Labor could get to a point where it was out-rednecking the Coalition on refugees? Where is this great party of principle? Does any true believer think Gough Whitlam, Bob Hawke or Paul Keating would have signed up to this? The only win Labor has had in the past 12 months is in this mad race to the bottom on asylum-seekers.

So Labor aren't winning the race, they have won it.
Thanks for raising this race again.

 

[lionking]

repeat

Richo also believes that Gillard will remain PM. Care to cite him on this? Didn't think so.

 

[Wildy]

I am confused. she rules out anywhere that is not a signatory. Malaysia is not a signatory and thus is ruled out. Now it is ruled in???

"I would" ≠ "I will". At best you could argue that she has a preference for a signatory country to be involved, but it's a stretch

Which agreement?

You know very well which agreement.

Interesting that you (and others) would call it JAQing off when actually asking valid questions. Questions that go directly to the claims made by the PM and others, questions that go to the very heart of the reason for the tax.

Mostly because the questions you ask have the same answer as other questions that you've asked, or you ask the same questions again and again.

This tax will do nothing to mitigate climate change yet you insult everyone's intelligence - including your own - by dodging the most valid question of them all on this issue.

Show us evidence that it won't. You can speculate on how it won't work, but your speculation does not equal evidence.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Richo also believes that Gillard will remain PM. Care to cite him on this? Didn't think so.

When? Before or after next election? Before or after May 2012? Before or after Christmas this year?

Show me

Mostly because the questions you ask have the same answer as other questions that you've asked, or you ask the same questions again and again.

To which there has been no answer (or evidence) again and again. This is not JAQing off when it is calling on a claim made by others. If it is then anyone can make the most spurious claims and any questions raised would be JAQing off, now wouldn't it?

Show us evidence that it won't.

I believe I have already done so. That aside, it is not my claim, all I claim is there is no evidence the carbon dioxide tax will work. And guess what, nothing has been produced to show that it will do the things the Labor government and its supporters say it will.

You can speculate on how it won't work, but your speculation does not equal evidence.

And right back at you. This tax is being implemented without evidence that it will work and the brainless cheer.

 

[a_unique_person]

And right back at you. This tax is being implemented without evidence that it will work and the brainless cheer.

It's the option recommended by the senior economic advisers to the government as being the most market efficient option. According to your CV, you don't have the experience to understand that.

 

[Wildy]

To which there has been no answer (or evidence) again and again. This is not JAQing off when it is calling on a claim made by others. If it is then anyone can make the most spurious claims and any questions raised would be JAQing off, now wouldn't it?

There has been no answer except where they has been and you've ignored it.

I believe I have already done so.

No, you've provided us with plenty of speculation, which isn't evidence.

That aside, it is not my claim, all I claim is there is no evidence the carbon dioxide tax will work. And guess what, nothing has been produced to show that it will do the things the Labor government and its supporters say it will.

Except in the post I responded to where you claimed that the tax will do nothing to mitigate climate change, or in this post, this post, this post, this post and probably more posts if I could go back further.

Face it, you're just distancing yourself from your claims so you don't have to back them up.

And right back at you. This tax is being implemented without evidence that it will work and the brainless cheer.

Oh no, you aren't getting out of it that easily. What evidence do you have that the tax won't do anything?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

It's the option recommended by the senior economic advisers to the government as being the most market efficient option. According to your CV, you don't have the experience to understand that.

Show me where they point out by how much the climate will be saved.

There has been no answer except where they has been and you've ignored it.

It is easy o ignore something that isn't there.
Show me where and by how much the tax will save the climate.

No, you've provided us with plenty of speculation, which isn't evidence.

Ironic, no?

Except in the post I responded to where you claimed that the tax will do nothing to mitigate climate change, or in this post, this post, this post, this post and probably more posts if I could go back further.

I have also said that in the absence of evidence that supports Gillards claims we have only one conclusion, and that is that the tax will do nothing.

Oh no, you aren't getting out of it that easily. What evidence do you have that the tax won't do anything?

The deafening silence from you about what it will do.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

http://www.clubsaustralia.com.au/docs/default-document-library/mr-ca-salvos.pdf

The Salvos don't think all that much of Wilkie's reforms either in terms of fully addressing the issue. In other words the issue is far more complex than any WOWSER might have us believe. This is in line with my beliefs too.

“However the Salvation Army believes that, regardless of the findings of a trial, a mandatory pre-commitment system on its own will not effectively respond to the complex issues that underpin problem gambling.”

 

[a_unique_person]

The productivity commission has quantified how pokies cause far more economic losses than benefits due to the problems of gambling addicts. They also believe precommitment is the best solution. I don't think the selective quoting by clubs australia of the salvo's is really any more evidence than that the tobacco companies gave for the anti-smoking campaigns. Did the Salvo's think praying would be a better solution?

 

[a_unique_person]

More on the Salvo's and gambling.

This is what The Salvation Army says in its main positional statement on gambling:

“Gambling is seeking gain at the expense of others, solely on the basis of chance. The Salvation Army is acutely aware of the suffering and deprivation experienced by many people as the result of this practice. Our social welfare experience, indicates that many of those who gamble tend to disregard their primary responsibilities, and not infrequently bring embarrassment and hurt to those dependent on them. The inherent evil in gambling tends to make the financial arrangements of a person or a community dependent on chance rather than upon a reward for labour. Since gambling is motivated by selfishness, it runs counter to the Christian expression of love, respect and concern for others. Often it begins in an apparently harmless way, but its continued practice may lead to dependency that undermines the personality and character of the gambler. Official sanction and public acceptance of this practice is, in the opinion of The Salvation Army, contrary to the Christian principles to which we subscribe. The Salvation Army requires its soldiers to abstain from gambling. It follows therefore that The Salvation Army does not find it acceptable for a soldier to have a proprietary interest in the gambling industry.”
​

You can’t get much clearer than that, yet the CV that Fairfax Media chairman Roger Corbett has included in the notice of meeting for tomorrow’s AGM in Sydney includes the statement: “Chairman of the Salvation Army Advisory Board”.
Why on earth do the anti-gambling Salvos have an association with the man whose record as Woolies CEO included turning the retailing giant into Australia’s biggest pokies empire with almost 12,000 machines across the country?

http://www.crikey.com.au/2009/11/09/with-roger-corbett-it’s-a-question-of-character/

 

[a_unique_person]

HAWTHORN AFL club president Jeff Kennett warned yesterday that gaming machine reforms proposed by Tasmanian independent MP Andrew Wilkie "threaten the viability of some clubs, and threaten the survival of the code".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ubs-code-at-risk/story-fn59niix-1226146309133