Atheists destroy churches, attack the faithful

jimbob said:
It is not whataboutism to point out that your idea is wrong.

If an authoritarian state has an official position on something, then it suppresses dissenting views.

I can't think of any currently Christian states that are authoritarian, however there have been many examples. Most of Christendom when it was called Christendom, for example had pretty stiff laws against heresy, including the wrong sort of Christianity. They also had even worse laws against other religions.

I can think of a very obvious Muslim authoritarian state - Saudi Arabia.
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Face palm.

Hey your position (Authoritarian CCP + Official atheist CCP = anti-religious suppression in China) is wrong because whatabout Christendom!

Yeah, folks, people actually think that whataboutism is an actual argument at this point.

Yikes.
 
Hellbound said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

For additional reading :)
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all because of authoritarianism!

That is absolutely my "go to" argument from now on, when the atheists bring up the Crusades or the inquisition or anything remotely like that.

/It is hilarious that they think they are rebutting my arguments by bringing up examples from the other side that are clearly related to religion, just like this human rights atrocities are clearly related to atheism.
 
The Big Dog said:
all because of authoritarianism!

That is absolutely my "go to" argument from now on, when the atheists bring up the Crusades or the inquisition or anything remotely like that.

/It is hilarious that they think they are rebutting my arguments by bringing up examples from the other side that are clearly related to religion, just like this human rights atrocities are clearly related to atheism.
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By all means bring up authoritarianism when talking about Henry VIII, and the founding of the CofE, for example.

You don't get a free pass for the Crusades, or the European wars of Religion, or the Inquisition, or The Troubles, for example.
 
jimbob said:
By all means bring up authoritarianism when talking about Henry VIII, and the founding of the CofE, for example.

You don't get a free pass for the Crusades, or the European wars of Religion, or the Inquisition, or The Troubles, for example.
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According to the Atheists I do, I can find authoritarians in every example you just gave.

****, the inquistion is a no brainer, under your logic, because it flourished in roman catholic Country under strong Monarchs who were worried about the spread of Protestantism undermining their rule.

Inquistion? Nothing to do with Religion, just authoritarians.

say a fella could get to like using atheist "logic."
 
Can you explain how something that is aimed at replacing a religion with an ideology that has all the functions of a religion is not a religion?

Hell, modern Chinese communism even has the inherent contradictions that religions have.
 
jimbob said:
Can you explain how something that is aimed at replacing a religion with an ideology that has all the functions of a religion is not a religion?

Hell, modern Chinese communism even has the inherent contradictions that religions have.
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Oh no, I ain't getting into Atheism is a religion in this thread. No sireebob.

You think that atheists get angry when I point out stories like this, y'all aint seen nothing until you suggest atheism is a religion, hoo boy.
 
The Big Dog said:
Oh no, I ain't getting into Atheism is a religion in this thread. No sireebob.

You think that atheists get angry when I point out stories like this, y'all aint seen nothing until you suggest atheism is a religion, hoo boy.
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Atheism is not a religion.

However Communist ideology aims to fulfil all the roles of a religion - including a future paradise when Communism is enacted fully. It happens to believe in the forces of history as revealed to Marx, rather than a supernatural being.
 
jimbob said:
Atheism is not a religion.

However Communist ideology aims to fulfil all the roles of a religion - including a future paradise when Communism is enacted fully. It happens to believe in the forces of history as revealed to Marx, rather than a supernatural being.
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Sounds like you are saying that atheism is the state religion of atheist countries like China.

Oh boy! ya done done it now!
 
The Big Dog said:
Oh no, I ain't getting into Atheism is a religion in this thread. No sireebob.

You think that atheists get angry when I point out stories like this, y'all aint seen nothing until you suggest atheism is a religion, hoo boy.
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Some might see that as an admission that certain posts were created just to antagonize atheists……….I wonder who would do such a thing and what that behavior might be called???
 
kali1137 said:
Some might see that as an admission that certain posts were created just to antagonize atheists……….I wonder who would do such a thing and what that behavior might be called???
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some would be wrong, given that I have not made such claims in this thread.... Some might therefore see that this post was created just to antagonize other posters.....I wonder who would do such a thing and what that behavior might be called???
 
wareyin said:
Welp, Squeegee, dann sure has you here! Why, atheists must be "convinced" that God doesn't exist! If an man in his 90's ever has fears or doubts that he might be wrong to not believe in God, his membership in the atheism club is summarily dismissed! Now, who was that that brought up fundamentalist atheists?
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Now that hyperbole must be worth an award of some sort!

It's simple enough. Squeegee's grandfather claimed to be a theist early in his life, then for many years he claimed to be an atheist, then at the end of his life his words indicated that he was a theist again. His age and his proximity to death have nothing to do with it. No-one, including Squeegee, knows his actual thoughts, only his claims/words.

Anyway, could you elaborate on the atheism club. I am mildly curious.
 
wareyin said:
Welp, Squeegee, dann sure has you here! Why, atheists must be "convinced" that God doesn't exist! If an man in his 90's ever has fears or doubts that he might be wrong to not believe in God, his membership in the atheism club is summarily dismissed! Now, who was that that brought up fundamentalist atheists?
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Unlike you, wareyin, I don't think that atheism is a club, I don't think that atheists are particularly good or worthy or morally superior. I don't want to be a member of your and T2's club, and I don't think that Squeegee's granddad was a bad person because he died a (literally!) God-fearing Christian. He just doesn't fit the definition:

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists.
Atheism (Wikipedia)
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You can contrast this with the Cambridge Dictionary definition of God-fearing:

Someone who is God-fearing is religious and tries to live in the way they believe God would wish them to.
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If Squeegee is so bothered by having his fond memories of a grandfather tainted by a little logical thinking, it's his problem, not mine. I have already stressed several times that I have no problem empathizing with believers.
 
Steve said:
Now that hyperbole must be worth an award of some sort!

It's simple enough. Squeegee's grandfather claimed to be a theist early in his life, then for many years he claimed to be an atheist, then at the end of his life his words indicated that he was a theist again. His age and his proximity to death have nothing to do with it. No-one, including Squeegee, knows his actual thoughts, only his claims/words.
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Thanks, I was going for hyperbole. I'm in the camp where if you don't believe in God, then you're an atheist. You don't have to declare it. You don't have to be certain or convinced that there's no God. If you don't believe that there's a god, you're an atheist. Squeegee's grandfather was terrified that his lack of belief might be wrong. That doesn't mean he began believing again.

Steve said:
Anyway, could you elaborate on the atheism club. I am mildly curious.
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It's sooper secret. If you don't have the official membership card, you can't be in the club.
 
dann said:
Unlike you, wareyin, I don't think that atheism is a club, I don't think that atheists are particularly good or worthy or morally superior. I don't want to be a member of your and T2's club, and I don't think that Squeegee's granddad was a bad person because he died a (literally!) God-fearing Christian. He just doesn't fit the definition:




You can contrast this with the Cambridge Dictionary definition of God-fearing:




If Squeegee is so bothered by having his fond memories of a grandfather tainted by a little logical thinking, it's his problem, not mine. I have already stressed several times that I have no problem empathizing with believers.
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Never fear, I don't think atheism is a club either! Nor did I ever say anything about superiority. You really must stop reading into other's posts like that, you'll do a lot better around here.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god. Period. You don't have to be convinced that there is absolutely no way there is a god, you are even allowed to be afraid you might be wrong. But if you don't believe in god, you're an atheist. Even if some folks want to take away your atheist card for not disbelieving hard enough.
 
wareyin said:
Thanks, I was going for hyperbole. I'm in the camp where if you don't believe in God, then you're an atheist. You don't have to declare it. You don't have to be certain or convinced that there's no God. If you don't believe that there's a god, you're an atheist. Squeegee's grandfather was terrified that his lack of belief might be wrong. That doesn't mean he began believing again.
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We are mostly in agreement. I think the word terrified is the issue. Terrified to me indicates a genuine concern that there may be real after-death consequences to how he lived his life. I have a hard time considering that to be atheism.

My first reaction when I read Squeegee's post was to think how awful it must have been at the moment of death to be so terrified about something so irrational.


wareyin said:
It's sooper secret. If you don't have the official membership card, you can't be in the club.
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Rats!
 
jimbob said:
Atheism is not a religion.

However Communist ideology aims to fulfil all the roles of a religion - including a future paradise when Communism is enacted fully. It happens to believe in the forces of history as revealed to Marx, rather than a supernatural being.
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Could you tell us a little more about these "forces of history" and how they were "revealed to Marx"?
I was as surprised to hear Das Kapital described by TBD as the "Atheist Bible," as I think TBD was to find out that it hardly contains anything at all about atheism and church burnings, and that the few times that church burnings are actually mentioned, Marx doesn't seem to approve of the practice.
So could you please enlighten us about this similarity between religion and the writings of Karl Marx? I would also like to know more about the Communist "paradise" that you mention. It's another thing that I never noticed when I read Das Kapital, so if you have the director's version of the book, the one that didn't edit out the passages about the Garden of Eden, I would very much like to borrow it.
 
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