Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[Professor Yaffle]

By the way, thanks to Professor Yaffle for posting the origin of the spoon metaphor. I knew what it meant, but not where it came from, and I had been vaguely curious about why people had latched onto something as seemingly random as spoons for that metaphor. It's good to know that it is, in fact, as arbitrary as it seemed, and that if those women had had a basket of chips in front of them at that moment, the A+ board would currently be full of people who don't have the nachos to deal with something.

I first heard of the metaphor from someone with CFS. It is a little different from saying you don't have the energy to do something because of your disability, its more that you have to be conscious of your limited reserves, that doing this one thing might make you unable to do something else you had planned later on.

 

[Wildy]

YOU tell the Welsh they're no different from the Brittish! I saw someone make that mistake once. It was rather epic.

I never knew the Welsh went crazy if that happens.

That was my interpertation, too. Which is perpetuating privelage, ironically enough--such a view of race is a distinctly American view.

I'd say something witty or profound, but I can't think of anything. Instead have this humourous video that expresses what I want to say.

As I pointed out above, Great Briton has had all kinds of trouble with racial issues involving white races throughout their history.

Well you could be one of those really crazy people who say that the original Britons were black people. But in SJW world they'd just redefine the non-English people as "coloured".

I doubt an American could tell an Albanian from an Arian, but in Yugoslavia it was a pretty major issue.

I never knew there were still Arians in this day and age. I thought it was suppressed in the 6th century.

And calling all dark-skinned people one race is, from a biological standpoint, about as moronic as you can get (there are more races originating in Africa than on all other continents combined from the biological standpoint). Clearly, they're allowing their wold-view to be colored by the views of the privilaged class of nations.

That's because all coloured people are a single monolithic block who have a single culture that's been appropriated by the evil white people.

I would love to see how SJW's would use their simplistic worldview to explain things like the genocide in Rwanda, or the massacres in Cambodia.

 

[tsig]

I first heard of the metaphor from someone with CFS. It is a little different from saying you don't have the energy to do something because of your disability, its more that you have to be conscious of your limited reserves, that doing this one thing might make you unable to do something else you had planned later on.

When I was young the spoons were tablespoons full to overflowing, as the years passed they became merely level and now they're mere teaspoons to be use sparingly one day they'll be no spoons at all.

 

[Foolmewunz]

When I first saw the allusion to spoons, I gave them more credit than they deserve and thought they were taking it from Eliot (The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock - "I have measured my life with coffee spoons..."). I clicked on the link in their glossary and have to say that the original article (while having nothing to do with Eliot/Prufrock) was a fairly decent analogy. But like everything with FTB and A+, they elevate things to cult status as part of that in-crowd mentality, so now it's used for anything one of them doesn't feel like dealing with. I've seen posts where people back out of arguments with particularly ignorant or recalcitrant newbs, saying they don't have the spoons to continue, or that maybe someone else has the spoons to finish they discussion but they don't.

If they'd left the metaphor where it was, I'd be fine with it. The original story was rather nuanced (I agree with Prof. Yaffle's post above) and for specific situations it's an apt analogy. But not as merely a cliquish replacement for "I've had it up to here", or as they used to say in Quebec, "J'ai mon voyage!"

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Also remember kids, a privileged group co-opting slang from a non privileged group, or attempting to take ownership of memes ideas and cultural tools of said group is bad, and possibly racism, ableism or sexism.

Misappropriating, misusing and abusing a fairly cogent explanation of what it's like to be disabled by perfectly healthy SJW's is of course absolutely fine.

Hypocritical bastards.

 

[zooterkin]

YOU tell the Welsh they're no different from the Brittish English! I saw someone make that mistake once. It was rather epic.

FTFY.


caps fodder

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Actually let's explore that for a moment. Why is a white person doing (or failing to do) the Harlem Shake racist, but a non disabled person without ME or some other chronic health condition saying they are running low on spoons considered a-ok?

How is one appropriating something from an underprivileged group by a privileged one and the other not?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Actually let's explore that for a moment. Why is a white person doing (or failing to do) the Harlem Shake racist, but a non disabled person without ME or some other chronic health condition saying they are running low on spoons considered a-ok?

How is one appropriating something from an underprivileged group by a privileged one and the other not?

Because one is done by them and the other is done by other people, silly.

 

[qwints]

How is one appropriating something from an underprivileged group by a privileged one and the other not?

I think they both are problematic.

The issue with the Harlem Shake isn't a white person doing a dance created by a black person. While there can be a fine line between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation about which people can disagree, one issue with the Harlem Shake meme was the total erasure of the original dance.

The Harlem Shake: Keep the meme, save the dance

I think you've accurately described the problem with able people using the spoons metaphor.

 

[Wildy]

Actually let's explore that for a moment. Why is a white person doing (or failing to do) the Harlem Shake racist, but a non disabled person without ME or some other chronic health condition saying they are running low on spoons considered a-ok?

How is one appropriating something from an underprivileged group by a privileged one and the other not?

Because they're transprivileged. That makes it okay.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I think they both are problematic.

The issue with the Harlem Shake isn't a white person doing a dance created by a black person. While there can be a fine line between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation about which people can disagree, one issue with the Harlem Shake meme was the total erasure of the original dance.

The Harlem Shake: Keep the meme, save the dance

Yep, that's fair enough. I don't disagree with what you've said there, although I suspect some did have a problem with white folk doing the dance even if they were doing it correctly.

That said, it's the bit below that I find interesting.

I think you've accurately described the problem with able people using the spoons metaphor.

I know. So why aren't the able people on the A+ board being decried for doing exactly that?

Why is the spoon metaphor so widespread over there? Do you complain about able bodied people saying they only have a few spoons left? If not, why not? Why don't the global mods like Ceepolk or SubMor pipe up in protest? Why don't the actually physically disabled people over there complain?

I don't know for sure but I can damn well have a good guess. It looks from the outside like special pleading and dare I say it a privilege for the well known and liked members. If you throw enough of your own logs onto the SJW fire then you're allowed to do things like complain that your perfectly able body hasn't got enough spoons, or tell people that you're going to commit acts of violence against them, or tell the victim of a tragedy that they can't really be a victim because they aren't reacting how you want them to.

In short, bloody minded, self centred, pity party circle jerking clique behaviour.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

While there can be a fine line between cultural appreciation and cultural appropriation about which people can disagree, one issue with the Harlem Shake meme was the total erasure of the original dance.

I honestly don't understand why this is a problem. The meme was never about the dance, and the only reason that particular track was used was because the 30 seconds of build-up followed by 30 seconds of drop structure lent itself to the videos perfectly.

Does the fact that videos in which people do things which aren't the Harlem Shake while accompanied by a bit of music called "Harlem Shake" exist mean that people from Harlem can't do the actual Harlem Shake? And how can the complaint simultaneously be that these videos appropriate the dance the Harlem Shake and that they have nothing to do with the dance?

With regards to that article, I fail to see how white people moving in to a particular area is a bad thing, either. If the article complained about black (or Asian, or pick-your-ethnicity-of-choice) people moving in to a neighbourhood which was predominantly white it would rightly be condemned as racist.

 

[luchog]

With regards to that article, I fail to see how white people moving in to a particular area is a bad thing, either.

Because gentrification, forcing prices up and lower-income minorities out.

Of course, the opposite of gentrification is white people leaving an area when minorities move in. This is known as "white flight" and is just as evil as gentrification, because it creates de facto ghettos; reducing the economic viability of a neighborhood, with a corresponding reduction of services and increase in crime rates.

In fact, it's really hard to get just the right ratio of white folks to minorities; but the stalwart SJW will keep pointing out the evilness caused by various movements of white people, until a proper balance is achieved.

 

[Jono]

In fact, it's really hard to get just the right ratio of white folks to minorities, but the stalwart SJW will keep pointing out the evilness caused by various movements of white people, until a proper balance is achieved.

Except, as they say, in "in brown peoples' own countries" of course, which we shouldn't even bother with to comment on.

 

[luchog]

Except, as they say, in "in brown peoples' own countries" of course, which we shouldn't even bother with to comment on.

Well, that should go without saying, because truly conscientious SJWs only care about what's going on in their own country. And America of course, America is always fair game. First World people should only deal with First World problems; Third Worlders should handle their own issues without our help. Because... you know, I'm not really sure on this one, colonialism maybe.

 

[The Man]

I just had an SJ class wherein the textbook author literally could not decide between "race is a social construct, it doesn't exist" and "white people are bad, m'kay"

Well that really just means that "white people are bad, m'kay" " is a social construct, it doesn't exist". Now given the patriarchy, being predominantly white (at least here in the US), then "white people are bad, m'kay" isn't currently a dominant social perception. In fact quite the opposite also considering the need for systematic power for the given definition of racism. So the mere concept of 'white privilege' as a systematic social construct opposes the precept that "white people are bad, m'kay" as a currently dominant social construct. Unfortunately they both need each other as the 'white privilege' is the primary reason "white people are bad, m'kay" with them perhaps not knowing it themselves. So white people (as a social construct of race that doesn't exist) need to learn how bad they are for just being white (as a social construct of race that doesn't exist) by accepting a social construct of 'white privilege' which they then have to reject as that is what makes white people (as a social construct of race that doesn't exist) so "bad, m'kay", specifically the ones not actually trying to be "bad, m'kay". Or of course you could just reject it all outright, race, privilege or other such social constructs and just try to treat all people fairly and equally as best you can.

 

[The Man]

When I first saw the allusion to spoons, I gave them more credit than they deserve and thought they were taking it from Eliot (The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock - "I have measured my life with coffee spoons..."). ...

At some point an allusion to that poem occurred to me as well, but I give you more credit for giving it far more credit than I did. Though for a minute I did think on the possibility of a parody poem of "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" but no lines seemed to fall into place other than just the initial spoon allusion.

 

[adamwho]

I have an topic that might act like a bomb in the atheism+ movement.

The SJW have demonstrated they are light on science and skepticism but there is still a strong core of "skeptics" in the atheism+ forums.

How do you think they would respond to somebody debunking anti-GMO propaganda? OR maybe somebody taking on the myths around organic food/farming?

I suspect that the SJWs will be screaming about Monsanto, frankenfoods, and every other crazy talking point of the anti-gmo conspiracy theorists. But I know for certain that some of the atheism+ people are active in debunking this type of stuff.

What do you think will happen? Where does atheism+ fall on the GMO issue?

 

[tsig]

I have an topic that might act like a bomb in the atheism+ movement.

The SJW have demonstrated they are light on science and skepticism but there is still a strong core of "skeptics" in the atheism+ forums.

How do you think they would respond to somebody debunking anti-GMO propaganda? OR maybe somebody taking on the myths around organic food/farming?

I suspect that the SJWs will be screaming about Monsanto, frankenfoods, and every other crazy talking point of the anti-gmo conspiracy theorists. But I know for certain that some of the atheism+ people are active in debunking this type of stuff.

What do you think will happen? Where does atheism+ fall on the GMO issue?

It would be more productive to ask them. Most here already think that A+ is worse than the RCC, Islam and Scientology all rolled together.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It would be more productive to ask them. Most here already think that A+ is worse than the RCC, Islam and Scientology all rolled together.

Not worse, just dumber. Luckily they provide hours of laughter.

ETA: Oh dear....I just realized "dumb" is a term that used to be used for people who couldn't speak. I guess that makes me cis-ablist. Or maybe trans-ablist? Or Hetero-normative-ablist? I'll punish myself accordingly.