Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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zeggman said:
If body language and tone disambiguated everything, people would never say "Are you kidding?"
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Hey, that paper on Pure Mathematics was rather confusing and ambiguous, but when I heard the author read it, the body language and tone really helped it make sense!
 
Walter Ego said:
The subject of Atheism Plus and the schism in the atheist/sceptic community came up this week on The Atheist Experience tv show. Hosts Russell Glasser and Don Baker look like they'd rather be talking about something else, anything else. (Check out their facial expressions at the beginning of the video when the topic is mentioned). Lots of hand waving, rationalizing and denial that a problem even exists.


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Mostly, basic equivocation. For people to be opposed to Atheism Plus they must be opposed to social justice.

Just like, to be opposed to the latest investment opportunity in an over-unity device, they must be opposed to energy.

("And when we ask people at conventions how they feel about energy, most of them are in favor of it! That proves that all the complaining about the Vacuum-E-Tronic 3000 is just a few disgruntled people on the Internet being blown out of proportion!")

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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I would rather watch a video from Walter Ego than reading endless drivels from the A+ forum or FtB.

I am more interested in the quality of the message than its form.
 
If the most recent derail of this thread is finished, does anyone want to talk about A+? Here's a link to the short, dismissive "discussion" of A+ on the Atheist Experience show of 11/11/12. (Embedded above in post #2087.)


http://youtu.be/zM7ZYGfq0TM
 
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Walter Ego said:
If the most recent derail of this thread is finished, does anyone want to talk about A+? Here's a link to the short, dismissive "discussion" of A+ on the Atheist Experience show of 11/11/12.
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It seems that FtB and A+ think that there is no problem and no division in atheism.

Meanwhile, Russell Blackford to not going anywhere near Watson and Myers and not attending the Australian Skeptics meeting. And I am sure that Myers, Watson and Amy would not go anywhere Vacula is... but there is no division in the atheist community.
 
Walter Ego said:
If the most recent derail of this thread is finished, does anyone want to talk about A+? Here's a link to the short, dismissive "discussion" of A+ on the Atheist Experience show of 11/11/12. (Embedded above in post #2087.)
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I posted my reaction above in #2102 (albeit in mid-derail). The basic disagreement is not between those who favor or reject social justice, but those who do and do not find the behaviors of the atheism plus clique consistent with pursuing social justice.

Those behaviors that some find objectionable include, notably, representing the disagreement as being between those who favor and reject social justice. That leads to related absurdities such as interpreting the acceptance of social justice ideals (e.g. in a straw poll at a conference) as approval of the conduct of the atheism plus clique.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Myriad said:
behaviors that some find objectionable include, notably, representing the disagreement as being between those who favor and reject social justice. That leads to related absurdities such as interpreting the acceptance of social justice ideals (e.g. in a straw poll at a conference) as approval of the conduct of the atheism plus clique.
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I always hated the inference that to be an atheist, you must also be for social justice, while not really defining what type of social justice being promoted. And how this schism will affect the speakers' list at TAM 2013?
 
Shameless self-promotion dept:
Some of you guys may be interested in an article I've just posted at Skeptic Ink, regarding my adventures at FtB, and with a comment on A+ as well: Confessions of a Tone Troll; or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Chuds.

I'll be following up later this week with a guest blog by Ed Rybicki, on the anniversary of his virtual crucifixion by the social justice bunch, for the terrible crime of writing a short story...about shopping.

http://skepticink.com/lateraltruth/...-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-chuds/
 
I have to admit, that whenever I hear the words "social justice" roll out of someone's mouth I either head the other way or look for a flamethrower.

Never trust anyone who's "cause" determines their indentity
 
RebeccaBradley said:
Shameless self-promotion dept:
Some of you guys may be interested in an article I've just posted at Skeptic Ink, regarding my adventures at FtB, and with a comment on A+ as well: Confessions of a Tone Troll; or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Chuds.
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Very good blog post Rebecca. I agree a lot with what you wrote. One word caught my attention though: self-righteous. This is one constant that I find with many in the A+ clique, especially Myers and Watson; "How dare we arguing with them.".

Thanks for sharing.
 
StankApe said:
I have to admit, that whenever I hear the words "social justice" roll out of someone's mouth I either head the other way or look for a flamethrower.

Never trust anyone who's "cause" determines their indentity
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The problem with social justice is that it is defined locally while atheism is universal. I could not care less about promoting gay marriage and universal health care since, as a Canadian, these are no longer an issue. I certainly support the work of Americans for their promotion, but it would make no sense for me to do it in Canada.
 
As a non American, it seems to me that A+ is pretty silly, but then most American things tend to seem this way to us non USA folk.

Have a look at the satwcomic(dot)com site for how some non US folk view things US, such as A+. You might want to use the /america extension.
 
WillyWonka said:
The problem with social justice is that it is defined locally while atheism is universal. I could not care less about promoting gay marriage and universal health care since, as a Canadian, these are no longer an issue. I certainly support the work of Americans for their promotion, but it would make no sense for me to do it in Canada.
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Yeah, I'm hip with all that (well UHC if we can find a way to pay for it in a country this massive, but that's another thread).

it's the term "social justice" itself. It's one of those buzzwords that when it erupts from someone's lips you KNOW that if you pursue the conversation further you will end up listening to a 45 minute political crusade involving several references to Norway and the "evil corporate facsist regime of AMERICA!!"

That i can do without, i can understand people's passion, but that doesn't mean I want them screwing on my sofa.
 
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WillyWonka said:
I always hated the inference that to be an atheist, you must also be for social justice, while not really defining what type of social justice being promoted. And how this schism will affect the speakers' list at TAM 2013?
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At least one onstage debate on A+ vs classic A would be awesome at TAM. Why not extend it to a triple header? An hour presenting the case for A+, an hour against it, an hour for debate.
 
Mr. Scott said:
At least one onstage debate on A+ vs classic A would be awesome at TAM. Why not extend it to a triple header? An hour presenting the case for A+, an hour against it, an hour for debate.
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I would argue that TAM is not the appropriate venue, since it is not an atheist conference.
 
zooterkin said:
I would argue that TAM is not the appropriate venue, since it is not an atheist conference.
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The A+ controversy definitely spills over into the skeptic meetings, so maybe limiting one talk to just that would be fitting. TAM the JREF are on the A+ hit list.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than watch such a debate.
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Yep, that too. Not to mention that a pretty large proportion of TAM attendees would be unaware of the issue at all. I'm really not sure who would benefit from such a debate. The A+ers won't be there, as they seem to have a downer on the JREF and TAM. There are way more important and interesting topics to discuss without dignifying this whole storm in a teacup with time at TAM.
 
RebeccaBradley said:
Shameless self-promotion dept:
Some of you guys may be interested in an article I've just posted at Skeptic Ink, regarding my adventures at FtB, and with a comment on A+ as well: Confessions of a Tone Troll; or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Chuds.

I'll be following up later this week with a guest blog by Ed Rybicki, on the anniversary of his virtual crucifixion by the social justice bunch, for the terrible crime of writing a short story...about shopping.

http://skepticink.com/lateraltruth/...-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-chuds/
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That was a great post RebeccaBradley. :)

So...I'd like to address how Ed Rybeicki negatively portrayed men as bumbling incompetents who would have led to the extinction of the human race were it not for the intervention of women. This is a totally misandrist viewpoint and only serves to marginalize men. ;)

Seriously though.

After reading about bunnygate, yep we're talikn' religion for atheists.

I love that lurking anthropologist mode phrase and I think I'll mentally use that when I describe my visits to A+. It lends a sort of legitimacy to my surfing, certainly more legitimacy than the current descriptor I use, going to the circus.
 
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