Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

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People on the A+ forum are dishonest, vicious and cruel. I don't think they are best combated with more of the same.

When i first visited that place i noticed that being cool, objective and rational did not get any better results.

I understand that there is wisdom in just "leaving them be". After all, A+ is comedy that writes itself. But being a passive bystander, especially after the treatment i got at that place, does not sit well with me. For now i am content by just having Socratic exercise about the possible means and outcomes of any future interactions with plussers.
 
When i first visited that place i noticed that being cool, objective and rational did not get any better results.

I understand that there is wisdom in just "leaving them be". After all, A+ is comedy that writes itself. But being a passive bystander, especially after the treatment i got at that place, does not sit well with me. For now i am content by just having Socratic exercise about the possible means and outcomes of any future interactions with plussers.

I suggest that if this particular venting place doesn't suit, The unsafe A+ forum might be worth a look. It consists largely of people banned or shunned on the main A+ site. It seems, in general, to be quite a polite, progressive forum with almost no savagery, but an understandable tendency to complain about unfair treatment on A+. There's hardly any moderation, and so far none has been needed.
 
I can see the idea of challenging them about it, but in situations like this, it's a good idea to remain the good guy. Pretending to be a victim in a forum where there may well be genuine victims is a way to not be the good guy. The A+ people already think that this kind of thing is routinely going on. It's a bit uncomfortably like Edward Norton and Helena Bonham Carter going to cancer support groups in Fight Club. I don't think there's a way to tell people "I pretended to be a rape victim on the Internet" and make it sound good.

People on the A+ forum are dishonest, vicious and cruel. I don't think they are best combated with more of the same.


I agree with this. It's more interesting and productive to critique their ideas from a distance.
 
I suggest that if this particular venting place doesn't suit, The unsafe A+ forum might be worth a look. It consists largely of people banned or shunned on the main A+ site. It seems, in general, to be quite a polite, progressive forum with almost no savagery, but an understandable tendency to complain about unfair treatment on A+. There's hardly any moderation, and so far none has been needed.

Not sure if want.

The purpose of this A+ unsafe is kind of bizarre. If it gains any popularity and relevance, the main A+ branch will either try to hijack it or denounce them as heretics. Something they have done to 99% of all other people that identify as atheist.

http://fireden.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/NotSureIfWant.jpg


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Not sure if want.

The purpose of this A+ unsafe is kind of bizarre. If it gains any popularity and relevance, the main A+ branch will either try to hijack it or denounce them as heretics. Something they have done to 99% of all other people that identify as atheist.

Personally, I have no desire to further A+ as a brand, even if it's a "kindler, gentler" version of A+. I know that "secular humanism" doesn't trip off the tongue as well, and isn't as hip, new, or trendy, but I'm sticking with that for now.
 
Fine. They can regard you as irredeemable instead, which will anger you even more, and you all can have a nice fist fight.

ETA: Wait, that's kind of what's already going on with Atheism Plus and its active opponents. How's that working out? Are all the disagreements resolved yet?

Respectfully,
Myriad

They're welcome to regard me as irredeemable if they like. They can even believe I've magically wronged them by having had different life experiences. Never met them, couldn't care less. I'm just saying, it's an insulting attitude to have, and an insulting thing to say to a person. If someone said it to me, I'd take it as an insult. And then I'd forgive them. :P
 
Personally, I have no desire to further A+ as a brand, even if it's a "kindler, gentler" version of A+. I know that "secular humanism" doesn't trip off the tongue as well, and isn't as hip, new, or trendy, but I'm sticking with that for now.

As a non-atheist, I don't care. I'm diluting any pool I swim in.

Also I think that A++ is mainly for people like me to whine about how we were badly treated on the A+ forum. I'm OK with that.
 
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I suggest that if this particular venting place doesn't suit, The unsafe A+ forum might be worth a look. It consists largely of people banned or shunned on the main A+ site. It seems, in general, to be quite a polite, progressive forum with almost no savagery, but an understandable tendency to complain about unfair treatment on A+. There's hardly any moderation, and so far none has been needed.

That is fascinating: That the "unsafe" A+ page is a better safe space than the "safe" one! :D
 
When i first visited that place i noticed that being cool, objective and rational did not get any better results.

I understand that there is wisdom in just "leaving them be". After all, A+ is comedy that writes itself. But being a passive bystander, especially after the treatment i got at that place, does not sit well with me. For now i am content by just having Socratic exercise about the possible means and outcomes of any future interactions with plussers.

Mad Dilla Huntter,

Far be it from me to criticize anyone for Doing Teh Crazy. I'm a big supporter of theater of the absurd, and sometimes a good pie in the face (figuratively or literally) can be high art.

But, it does sound like you're suffering from PPD. One tends to fixate on a job that one's been unjustly dismissed from or a clique that one's been tossed out of for spurious reasons. That's sort of natural. We all have grand thoughts of filling the in-crowd's swimming pool with shark infested custard at those times. We just don't always voice them. Not just because you can be found out ahead of time if you really want to go through with the subterfuge, but because there are members here who are members there. Their overall "message" is not wrong or bad. Their applications, otoh, suck to high heavens.

Do you really, for instance, want to go through your life on the JREF Forums with an Atheism+ pun for a screen name? They're a dinky little cult-like group, mustering an average of about 25 posts an hour.

(/old fart mode off)
 
That is fascinating: That the "unsafe" A+ page is a better safe space than the "safe" one! :D

It's not surprising. Assemble a group of random strangers with a mutual interest in discussing a particular subject, and they'll tend to find common ground. Discussing things with people you disagree with is interesting. Get together on the basis that you're persecuted and being followed by people with evil intent, and that's going to work out badly.

The issue I was ultimately banned over was their idea that they could dish out violent abuse against people who disagreed with them, while asking for the disadvantaged and damaged to flock to them, without sometimes hurting people who were ill-equipped to deal with abuse. They didn't want to hear it. Their world is divided into victims and people who disagree with them. The idea that the two might overlap is too much of a jump for them.
 
When i first visited that place i noticed that being cool, objective and rational did not get any better results.

I understand that there is wisdom in just "leaving them be". After all, A+ is comedy that writes itself. But being a passive bystander, especially after the treatment i got at that place, does not sit well with me. For now i am content by just having Socratic exercise about the possible means and outcomes of any future interactions with plussers.

If it's revenge you are after, then direct it at the people who did the wrong, instead of making things even harder for the real victims who are taking steps to find somewhere to talk.

Blog about - with evidence - the inconsistencies and unfairness that the mods are demonstrating. Show how they are moderating some members with extreme actions and no beneift of doubt, whereas on the other hand they quietly advise favoured members to edit their own posts, and continue unabated.

I don't think it's actually a healthy attitude to take, and would advise against it - move on and enjoy your life instead. But the worst thing to do is flame and mock in a place where there may be real vctims of what you pretend, and you don't know what the consequences of that may be.

It's all very well talking about how it's clearly not a safe place, and is not like other suport forums for victims. However, not everyone is experienced with the internet, or forums, and some people drop into the first allegedly safe place they can find for their issues - particularly when other support forums are locked down. Let's cut them some slack.

We had a JREF member here years ago who trolled everyone pretending to be a mental health patient, considering suicide, and they received a lot of attention, support and I believe some financial offers, if not assistance, from the community here. After they were exposed as a fraud, it was a long hard time for anyone with real problems to be believed and supported so easily again. Members suggesting the fraud at the time were flamed badly for being subject to cynicism over skepticism. Ripple effects are difficult to manage or predict, or even to know - even after the fact.

What might be more constructive is trying to get the mods and admins to understand the problems. Document clear items about creating private areas for victim discussions, where people can go after vetting in the more public sections. About how successful support forums work. About examples of moderation policies that give the benefit of the doubt while not inviting every troll on the web to have a go. In fact, supporting the 'unsafe' A+ site with things like this may be very much the way to go.
 
Now i am really tempted to make "victim" troll account

Personally I wouldn't do that. But I suspect that some of the A+ people are already doing that. Every forum ever has had people pretending to be what they are not. I understand that lesbian groups have a particularly big problem with saddo men pretending to be "wimmin". You're not the first person to think of infiltrating A+, they're already awash with pretenders.
 
Arguments acknowledged.

Starting a blog would be better idea i guess. I wanted to blog but never had enough incentive. Maybe now all the nice feeling towards A+ will motivate me.
However, blogging just about A+ is like pissing in to a sea of piss, i need other hobbies then just plussers... go figure. Oh, and i am usually horrible at conveying my thoughts thoughts written media, speech comes for me more naturally. Ill let you know how it goes
 
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When has that ever stopped anybody :D

True, but i get super annoyed when my message don't come across the way i wanted it. Because the possible response would be addressing a distorted message. In my experience, from there it usually spirals to straw man attacks and ad hominems, ignoring the actual point altogether.

People misrepresent other peoples positions on purpose enough as it is (*cough* A+), i would hate to be misunderstood by any rare honest individual as well.
 
Unsafe is safe.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

We are at war with Atheism Plus. We have always been at war with Atheism Plus. We are in alliance with Thunderf00t. We have always been in alliance with Thunderf00t.
 
We are at war with Atheism Plus. We have always been at war with Atheism Plus. We are in alliance with Thunderf00t. We have always been in alliance with Thunderf00t.

I don't see how that follows I'm not at War with A+. you can't be at war with ideas or ideals, or alliance with anything but reason. A+ is a bad idea, maybe started for good reasons but executed very poorly without applying the fundamentals of skepticism they say that they believe in. It really comes off as radical fundamental feminism and really doesn't have anything to do atheism.
 
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