Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[TheGoldcountry]

On a semi-related note, does anyone have a secret decoder ring for reading this stuff? "Abelist"? "Cisbinary"?


Is anyone else bothered by exclusion via jargon?

Personally, I'm constantly Googling different words. They should just go ahead and introduce an entirely different language. They already think no one empathizes with them; their martyrdom will be complete if they found a new society.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Sasha Wiley-Shaw (aka Creepy Bitter Girl) was arrested at the Vancouver Casserole Protest and complained of police brutality.



(though she reportedly blocked traffic and spat on a car)

I think I know her handle on the A+ forum and on the JREF, unless it's someone else who writes exactly like her and has the same home town.

Sasha is the one near the beginning with the blue scarf:

Is that the same demonstration she is in that other vid showing off her wounds? With no footage of what went on before, that's pretty scant evidence of brutality or of her claims that five or six big burly cops wrestled her to the ground and caused her terrible carpet burns. Oh, and the cops are actually smaller than many of the demonstrators, have no weapons drawn, are not using mace or pepper spray, and look about as violent/brutal as the mall rent-a-cop removing a loiterer from in front of the Loblaw's.

I'm with Kelly on this. That doesn't look much like "staring down a SWAT team". The cops are showing remarkable restraint in a couple of instances - particularly with the rather large woman who physically pushes them. Canadian cops must be a nicer breed than the ones Kelly and I are thinking about. If I ever pushed a cop or tried to physically bust through a group of them, I'd have been in lock-up in a heartbeat (after I got out of the ER, I'm sure).

 

[Foolmewunz]

On a semi-related note, does anyone have a secret decoder ring for reading this stuff? "Abelist"? "Cisbinary"?

Is anyone else bothered by exclusion via jargon?

Personally, I'm constantly Googling different words. They should just go ahead and introduce an entirely different language. They already think no one empathizes with them; their martyrdom will be complete if they found a new society.

They actually include a glossary on A+. How special is that? And if you google some of their terms, you'll find out why.... because their terms are rather obscure and in several cases can't be found with a cursory Google search.


ETA: Jeez I messed up the quote within a quote formatting.... Nothing slanderous so I'm giving up on it. You lot can figure out by scrolling up....
ETA 2: No, I didn't. SODDI (some other dude did it). I copied the formatting from TheGoldCountry's post. I still can't be arsed to fix it, though.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

That attitude is exactly why safe spaces are needed.

I'm sure quite a few here would agree with that.

Unfortunately, unless one is part of the in-group, A+ isn't one.

 

[s_pepys]

going to see book of mormon soon. cant wait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDuesOr4De4

love it.

lxxx

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Sasha Wiley-Shaw (aka Creepy Bitter Girl) was arrested at the Vancouver Casserole Protest and complained of police brutality.

(though she reportedly blocked traffic and spat on a car)

I think I know her handle on the A+ forum and on the JREF, unless it's someone else who writes exactly like her and has the same home town.

Sasha is the one near the beginning with the blue scarf:

That video is titled "Police attack peaceful protest", but at no time did I see police attacking anyone. They were detaining people and those being detained, along with their fellow SJWs, took it upon themselves to attack the privilaged fascists and their binary cislaws. A clear example of riotsplaining.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

That video is titled "Police attack peaceful protest", but at no time did I see police attacking anyone. They were detaining people and those being detained, along with their fellow SJWs, took it upon themselves to attack the privilaged fascists and their binary cislaws. A clear example of riotsplaining.

You do have to wonder where the video footage is of what she did in order to be arrested.

 

[Mr. Scott]

Is that the same demonstration she is in that other vid showing off her wounds? With no footage of what went on before, that's pretty scant evidence of brutality or of her claims that five or six big burly cops wrestled her to the ground and caused her terrible carpet burns. Oh, and the cops are actually smaller than many of the demonstrators, have no weapons drawn, are not using mace or pepper spray, and look about as violent/brutal as the mall rent-a-cop removing a loiterer from in front of the Loblaw's.

I'm with Kelly on this. That doesn't look much like "staring down a SWAT team". The cops are showing remarkable restraint in a couple of instances - particularly with the rather large woman who physically pushes them. Canadian cops must be a nicer breed than the ones Kelly and I are thinking about. If I ever pushed a cop or tried to physically bust through a group of them, I'd have been in lock-up in a heartbeat (after I got out of the ER, I'm sure).

Kelly said none of them were ever arrested. They were indeed arrested, though no doubt exaggerated their claims of severe police brutality. So, the truth lies somewhere in between "never arrested" and severely abused. I've seen the video of Sasha showing her injuries from "police brutality" (I think from the same event) but the camera picks up no injuries I can see. The video titles are, indeed, exaggerated and/or misleading, and the videos seem edited to conceal what the protesters don't want people to see.

These people (SJWs) are not know for their honesty and integrity, and I think they project their dishonesty on their opponents.

 

[Eskarina]

Personally, I'm constantly Googling different words. They should just go ahead and introduce an entirely different language. They already think no one empathizes with them; their martyrdom will be complete if they found a new society.

They remind me of a story in my second- or third-grade textbook about a man who one day, out of the blue, decided to rename everything. "Table" became "chair", "chair" became "door", "door" became "plate" etc., etc.

Of course, after a while no one could understand him anymore, and in the end he had to relearn the original language, because no one was willing to learn his'.

They are marginalising themselves and blame it on others.

Sad!

 

[qayak]

You do have to wonder where the video footage is of what she did in order to be arrested.

And of her being beaten nearly to death . . . you'd think they'd show that if it existed.

Of course! It was probably deemed too graphic and they edited it out to prevent "trigger" incidents for any A+ whackadoodles susceptible to such things.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Readers Digest as I recall:
- Joined the forum.
- Was inspired by our use of skepchick to co-opt the name and form an org.
- Gained a reputation a popular speaker, blogger and podcaster.
- Also gained a reputation as a party girl that didn't sit well with some of her fellow skepchicks (see rejection of "skepchick" appellation and bordello party threads).
- Was made a mod here, stepped down(?) and was suspended for having a sock puppet account "radial tyre".
- Came back off suspension and discovered her account reset to her mod status and abused those powers (except for banning Scrut, which was widely applauded).
- Was banned from the forum and continued her marketing elsewhere.

I just want to correct on thing in this timeline. The banning of Scrut was universally applauded, not merely received so widely.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Oh, and the cops are actually smaller than many of the demonstrators, have no weapons drawn, are not using mace or pepper spray, and look about as violent/brutal as the mall rent-a-cop removing a loiterer from in front of the Loblaw's.

This. I think the world would greatly benefit if more of our cops resembled these violent and thuggish officers of the law.

 

[kellyb]

I'm sure quite a few here would agree with that.

Unfortunately, unless one is part of the in-group, A+ isn't one.

Yeah.
That's it in a nutshell.

 

[recursive prophet]

Yeah.
That's it in a nutshell.

Which is clearly where the A+ story belongs.

 

[squealpiggy]

Is that the same demonstration she is in that other vid showing off her wounds? With no footage of what went on before, that's pretty scant evidence of brutality or of her claims that five or six big burly cops wrestled her to the ground and caused her terrible carpet burns. Oh, and the cops are actually smaller than many of the demonstrators, have no weapons drawn, are not using mace or pepper spray, and look about as violent/brutal as the mall rent-a-cop removing a loiterer from in front of the Loblaw's.

I'm with Kelly on this. That doesn't look much like "staring down a SWAT team". The cops are showing remarkable restraint in a couple of instances - particularly with the rather large woman who physically pushes them. Canadian cops must be a nicer breed than the ones Kelly and I are thinking about. If I ever pushed a cop or tried to physically bust through a group of them, I'd have been in lock-up in a heartbeat (after I got out of the ER, I'm sure).

This is a real pet-hate of mine, this form of "protest". Police are present at dozens of protests every year and help to balance the rights of the protesters to free assembly and free expression with the rights of everyone else to go about their business, and they do it all in a manner which keeps everybody safe.

Then there's a certain class of protester which goes out of its way to provoke police officers. They're the ones shouting and spitting, banging pots next to officers' faces, and acting illegally. Then when the officers start to enforce the law and keep the peace against now resisting protesters (who scream out things like "I'M NOT RESISTING!" while clearly resisting) the cameras are rolling. Then you can expect heavily edited videos of the event to be posted on Youtube under the banner of "Police Brutality".

Makes me sick.

 

[Foolmewunz]

This is a real pet-hate of mine, this form of "protest". Police are present at dozens of protests every year and help to balance the rights of the protesters to free assembly and free expression with the rights of everyone else to go about their business, and they do it all in a manner which keeps everybody safe.

Then there's a certain class of protester which goes out of its way to provoke police officers. They're the ones shouting and spitting, banging pots next to officers' faces, and acting illegally. Then when the officers start to enforce the law and keep the peace against now resisting protesters (who scream out things like "I'M NOT RESISTING!" while clearly resisting) the cameras are rolling. Then you can expect heavily edited videos of the event to be posted on Youtube under the banner of "Police Brutality".

Makes me sick.

While I'm not going to disagree with you, as I've seen those things myself, it's not good to put all demonstrations and LEO reactions under that umbrella. I've been at demonstrations where the keepers of the peace lining the PERMITted march route felt that the way to keep order was to close ranks from two sides of the street at once, squeezing the marchers into almost single file, assuring some push-back so they could "maintain law and order" by bashing a few heads.

 

[squealpiggy]

While I'm not going to disagree with you, as I've seen those things myself, it's not good to put all demonstrations and LEO reactions under that umbrella. I've been at demonstrations where the keepers of the peace lining the PERMITted march route felt that the way to keep order was to close ranks from two sides of the street at once, squeezing the marchers into almost single file, assuring some push-back so they could "maintain law and order" by bashing a few heads.

And the worst thing is that when people deliberately provoke police in order to make a "Help, help, I'm being repressed" video it cheapens the experience people have when they are genuinely abused. 90% of the "police brutality at a protest" videos do not depict any police brutality. They depict people exhibiting provocative behaviour and then resisting arrest when they finally cross the line. So claims of police brutality are dismissed even when the push comes from the Law Enforcement side.

 

[qwints]

I've been to protests where some protesters clearly wanted trouble even when the police didn't. Our local occupy, although it was subject to police infiltration, entrapment and illegal eviction, didn't see any police brutality. That didn't stop protesters, not all of whom were agent provocateurs, from proposing actions that would have either involved heavy property damage or the use of a lot of force by police. On the other hand... "We Get Up Early to Beat the Crowds"

I'm sure quite a few here would agree with that.

Unfortunately, unless one is part of the in-group, A+ isn't one.

There's a big difference between saying that the atheismplus forums are moderated poorly or unfairly, and saying that the idea of trying to address social justice through skepticism is fundamentally flawed. There have certainly been mistakes in the way those forums are run, some of which have been addressed on that site and others of which have not.

 

[squealpiggy]

I've been to protests where some protesters clearly wanted trouble even when the police didn't. Our local occupy, although it was subject to police infiltration, entrapment and illegal eviction, didn't see any police brutality. That didn't stop protesters, not all of whom were agent provocateurs, from proposing actions that would have either involved heavy property damage or the use of a lot of force by police. On the other hand...
"We Get Up Early to Beat the Crowds"

You FTB types sure get upset at t-shirts.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Just to continue the derail.... (might be worthy of a spinoff thread on The Rights and Wrongs of Your Right to Protest, Even Wrongly).

I've been to those demonstrations when people are proposing acts that will draw the ire (and hopefully not the fire) of the "forces of oppression". And I've actually voted in favor of same. There are shades of gray within shades of gray, though.

> We can't get a permit to protest within ten blocks of the hotel where X (pick your representative of the ruling class depending on the era) is speaking? Let's block traffic in midtown so the city "comes to a halt", man! I supported that. I knew I might get arrested*, but the gesture was worth it.
*Didn't. NYC cops after early '67 were some of the most disciplined uniforms we ever faced off against. They were rough during the first Whitehall Street actions, but they got so much bad ink that they treated most demonstrations like a St. Patrick's Day Parade with less drunks.

> Sit-in at a "No colored or indian served" restaurant in Oklahoma? Yep. Got hauled away for that one. And that was the purpose of the sit-in. Get my sweet thirteen year old face on camera being hauled away by cops for the local TV. Does anyone think that sit-ins were actually designed to get a grilled cheese sandwich because we were hungry? No. They were designed to get arrested, get some coverage on the evening news, and TO MAKE A COURT CASE.

> Symbolic "human circle of love around the Pentagon"? Totally illegal, but it was worth doing. Got a night in lock-up for that, too.

> Aged 11, with my mom, staring down the White Citizens' Council and providing a human shield for blacks registering to vote in Metarie Parish. The "law" was writ by those same folks who were trying to block the registration. The WCC, for those who aren't aware, was essentially the fluffy front and head office for the guys who normally went out at night with hoods on (no, not the defensive unit of the Ravens... those other hoods).

> Same Pentagon demonstration.... I mentioned above. I was in a group who threatened to leave the demonstration if anyone so much as vocally supported the idea by one of the crazies that a radical faction should occupy Arlington Cemetery,... and I quote,.... "Yeah, and we could piss on the graves of those ***************** war mongering soldiers buried there!" My protest wasn't nearly so significant as the head of Veterans for Peace who said that he'd send a group ahead..."... to block your entrance, *******!"

So, I'll draw the line at trashing things for trashing things sake, even if it's a symbolic target. ****** around with Arlington would've been counter to everything I believe and that I thought the Anti-War movement stood for. It would be like an atheist proposing to vandalize a church because of its symbolism and how far is that from KKK bombers blowing up churches or schools because of their particular symbolism? But - civil disobedience with a purpose is a legitimate expression IMHO. I mentioned recently that we always thought the funniest thing was calling us Anti-American. We were as patriotic as the guy with the huge flag on his lawn. We just saw our patriotic duty differently, e.g. to get out there and address what was/is wrong.

Like I said,... shades of gray within shades of gray. It's a personal decision and should not be entered into lightly. Would I do it again, in my dotage and having to take care of a wife and kid? Probably not, but I might be in the back rows holding the backpacks and mobile phones of the ones who choose to act.