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astrology,feng shui and research

woodwater said:
Originally Posted by Mojo:
To eliminate the possibility of unconscious bias on your part, you need to do some blinded testing.
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I would be glad to do it. How is it done?:)
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Try this post. Basically blind testing would just involve preparing charts without knowing what sort of person the subject is. If you want to be able to draw any real conclusions you need reasonable sized groups of people. Take one group with your target condition (in the case you've just suggested, people who have been abused by their parents) and the other not exhibiting your target condition (for the case you've just suggested, people who have not been abused by their parents), and mix the two sets of birth dates up so you don't know which dates belong to which group. After you've decided whether or not individual charts have the particular "power" you think is relevant, you are told which group which charts belong to. You can then see if there is the expected difference between the groups.
 
Mojo said:
So in effect all you are doing is feeding the time and place of birth into a program and the results are explicitly stating either "this person has unfavorable power in parents palace" or "this person does not have unfavorable power in parents palace": there is no skill on your part involved here?
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not really
 
Mojo said:
Try this post. Basically blind testing would just involve preparing charts without knowing what sort of person the subject is. If you want to be able to draw any real conclusions you need reasonable sized groups of people. Take one group with your target condition (in the case you've just suggested, people who have been abused by their parents) and the other not exhibiting your target condition (for the case you've just suggested, people who have not been abused by their parents), and mix the two sets of birth dates up so you don't know which dates belong to which group. After you've decided whether or not individual charts have the particular "power" you think is relevant, you are told which group which charts belong to. You can then see if there is the expected difference between the groups.
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The problem is i dont know enough people who havent been abused.
I could get the charts of famous people but i dont know which ones were abused.
 
woodwater said:
« skeptics say smoking is closely related to lung cancer. Thats why smoking is banned from monst public places today.

A skeptic can easily quote that a lot of chain smokers live to a very old age without lung cancer.A skeptic can also point that a lot of non smokers died of lung cancer.

Can we conclude that science is not accurate?

The argument by skeptics about astrology is just like that.It is not worth the time to answer.»

My teacher
Any comments?
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Can you comment on what my teacher said?:confused:
 
Yes. I hope you didn't have to pay any tuition, because your teacher is a gaping, flaming idiot.
 
woodwater said:
I could get the charts of famous people but i dont know which ones were abused.
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This is another problem with your approach, certainly as far as the challenge is concerned: you keep focussing on people well enough known to have information about them freely available on the internet (e.g. politicians, serial killers). For this sort of person, even if the test is supposed to be blind, you could easily just be using Google to find out who the bith date belongs to (as has already been demonstrated in this thread).
 
woodwater said:
Can you comment on what my teacher said?:confused:
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Yes: we can point to studies that show that smokers are less likely to live to a great age than non-smokers, and that they are more likely to suffer from certain types of cancer. the link between smoking and cancer is well established.

Can you provide references for studies that conclusively establish a link between "power in parents palace" and childhood abuse?
 
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woodwater said:
« skeptics say smoking is closely related to lung cancer. Thats why smoking is banned from monst public places today.

A skeptic can easily quote that a lot of chain smokers live to a very old age without lung cancer.A skeptic can also point that a lot of non smokers died of lung cancer.

Can we conclude that science is not accurate?

The argument by skeptics about astrology is just like that.It is not worth the time to answer.»

My teacher
Any comments?
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Medical professionals have found - through scientific research - that smoking is closely related to lung cancer. Politicians used public perception of this to further their agenda, and this is why it is banned in public places.

People - skeptics or otherwise - can quote tales of long living smokers, who are the lucky exceptions to the way nicotine attacks the body.

People - skeptics or otherwise - know of people who died of lung cancer and never smoked in their lives. A high percentage of these deaths are related to passive smoking.

There is no conflict in the science.

There is no science in the field of astrology - no proven studies, tests; any of the things you have been asked to cite, which indicate any reliability or even common ground.

I would be concerned if a teacher took this kind of approach, to be honest.
 
woodwater said:
« skeptics say smoking is closely related to lung cancer. Thats why smoking is banned from monst public places today.

A skeptic can easily quote that a lot of chain smokers live to a very old age without lung cancer.A skeptic can also point that a lot of non smokers died of lung cancer.

Can we conclude that science is not accurate?

The argument by skeptics about astrology is just like that.It is not worth the time to answer.»

My teacher
Any comments?
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Yes: your teacher either doesn't understand statistics, or is deliberately misleading you. Your teacher's first sentence is true. The second may or may not be, but fortunately isn't relevant to the point.

The 3rd and 4th sentences are also true, and do not in any contradict the 1st sentence. Let me demonstrate.

a) "Smoking is closely related to lung cancer."

b) "Smoking guarantees that you will die of lung cancer."

c) "Not smoking guarantees that you won't die of lung cancer."

a is true. b takes a and stretches it beyond its original meaning: b is obviously false, as is shown by your teacher's 3rd sentence. c takes b and reverses it: this isn't likely to be true just because is builds on the false premise of b, and indeed we do know that c is false as well. Your teacher's 4th sentence is fine because c is false.

Your teacher's statements taken together try to convince you that a means that both b and c are also true, without ever stating b and c clearly. This is highly misleading at best, and if done deliberately means your teacher is trying to blur rather than reveal the truth.
 
woodwater
i can
1- tell you if your relationship with spouse is good or bad
2- if you seek power in your life above all
3-if you seek wealth or women above all in your life
4-if you trust yourself
5-if the relation with sons or parents are good or bad
6- you show me some birthdates and ask me which ones belong to politicians or artists and i tell you.
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Ok, how about this. I’m not a artist or writer. I personally know two artists, as in painting, sketching, etc. I also personally know a writer. If I were to give you their information, leaving out names, and my information could you tell which set of information was mine?

Ossai
 
Ossai said:
woodwater

Ok, how about this. I’m not a artist or writer. I personally know two artists, as in painting, sketching, etc. I also personally know a writer. If I were to give you their information, leaving out names, and my information could you tell which set of information was mine?

Ossai
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Try me. if i fail...i quit:boxedin:
 
Numenaster said:
Yes: your teacher either doesn't understand statistics, or is deliberately misleading you. Your teacher's first sentence is true. The second may or may not be, but fortunately isn't relevant to the point.

The 3rd and 4th sentences are also true, and do not in any contradict the 1st sentence. Let me demonstrate.

a) "Smoking is closely related to lung cancer."

b) "Smoking guarantees that you will die of lung cancer."

c) "Not smoking guarantees that you won't die of lung cancer."

a is true. b takes a and stretches it beyond its original meaning: b is obviously false, as is shown by your teacher's 3rd sentence. c takes b and reverses it: this isn't likely to be true just because is builds on the false premise of b, and indeed we do know that c is false as well. Your teacher's 4th sentence is fine because c is false.

Your teacher's statements taken together try to convince you that a means that both b and c are also true, without ever stating b and c clearly. This is highly misleading at best, and if done deliberately means your teacher is trying to blur rather than reveal the truth.
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Hi

My teacher: «a)astrologers say the moment of birth of a person is closely related to the path of life of the person.

b) skeptics or resesarchers argue that in some cases they can prove otherwise

C) skeptics say they can do fake readings that match a pewrson`s life

This is what resesarchers do paralel to what i said about smoking and lung cancer

nobody is misleading you. Im not trying to prove anything with statistics.To qualify my self i have a degree in mathematics with statistic as minor.
The original message was not based on statistics.
Im just drawing a paralel to what people who claim to be resesarchers say about astrology.Thanks for the «resesarcher» pointing out that the argument is not valid.It applies to their argument against astrology all the same.»

Any comment:boxedin:
 
woodwater said:
Hi

My teacher: «a)astrologers say the moment of birth of a person is closely related to the path of life of the person.
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And yet if the person's life doesn't match the path predicted by the chart, the astrologer's reply (which you have cited earlier) is that the chart shows the path and it's up to the person to walk it. This leaves no possibility that astrology can ever be wrong: a very tidy escape clause.

There's also the exceptions stated earlier, that the mere minutes of birth between twins are enough to explain significant differences in life path, and that major world events can overwhelm the influence of a person's birth moment and cause a mismatch with astrology's predictions. The sum of these statements amounts to "astrology works, even when it's wrong".

woodwater said:
b) skeptics or resesarchers argue that in some cases they can prove otherwise
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We haven't claimed we can prove it because the astrologer's position admits no way to do so.

woodwater said:
C) skeptics say they can do fake readings that match a pewrson`s life
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As Meg ably demonstrated to you.

woodwater said:
This is what resesarchers do paralel to what i said about smoking and lung cancer
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What is he claiming researchers do? Fake their data? Or find exceptions?

woodwater said:
nobody is misleading you. Im not trying to prove anything with statistics.To qualify my self i have a degree in mathematics with statistic as minor.
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So rather than misunderstanding the cancer analogy, he's deliberately distorting it. This doesn't inspire confidence.

woodwater said:
The original message was not based on statistics.

Im just drawing a paralel to what people who claim to be resesarchers say about astrology.Thanks for the «resesarcher» pointing out that the argument is not valid.It applies to their argument against astrology all the same.»
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It looks like he's saying "My argument wasn't valid. But it's still a description of what skeptics say about astrology." Well, no, it isn't.

The original argument took a true statement about a correlation (between smoking and lung cancer death) and distorted it into an ironclad and exclusive link. What skeptics say about astrology is that there is no demonstrated correlation between the chart and the life it is supposed to describe. Your blind testing might provide data that demonstrates such a correlation, and if so would be a definite candidate for the challenge. Single case studies won't do (the plural of anecdote is not data).

Given what you know about the way astrology claims to work, what would you say it can do? It seems that it can't predict the course or length of an actual life. Would you say that people tend to cluster in certain professions that their charts show they are well suited to? Is there anything else you could predict about large groups of people based on their charts?
 
Ossai said:
woodwater

Ok, how about this. I’m not a artist or writer. I personally know two artists, as in painting, sketching, etc. I also personally know a writer. If I were to give you their information, leaving out names, and my information could you tell which set of information was mine?

Ossai
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when do you want to do the test?:)
 
replybto skeptics

hi this is rthe reply to the quotes in the book «astrology disproved» by Lawrence Demme

«human biomagnetism is a fact of life science has not studied yet.human biomagnetism is similar to earths geomagnetism in that theiyre both generated by dinamo effect of liquid metal.In geomagnetism the core of the earth is liquid iron which is spinning, due to the plants rotation.
mettalic irons are rather loosely organized, atomically.
therefore when set in motion they create a dinamo effect that generates a magnetic effect. In the human body, the iron contet of th blood is set in motion by arterial circulation produced by the heart action.
once again, iron molecules set in motion create a magnetic field i.e the chi meridians of the body.
Furthermore in chinese metaphysics both types of chi,earths magnetic field and humans´s can be detecte with needles. The chinese compass has a needle that responds to geomagnetism while in acunpuncture the metal needkles inserted in the flesh deytect biomagnetism.
chi is not a misterious force unknown to science,it is the magnetic portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.
the human magnetic effect is much weaker than earths because the core of the earth is much bigger than a single person and is spinning much faster than the the speed of human blood circulation.
However we all know what it feels to have a sex orgasm.
there is a sudden movement and release of our bodily magnetic forces.

as for magnetic fields and their influence in earth thats quite easy to observe.Did youknow that the second largest object in our system is jupiters magnetic field?
it extends millions of miles beyound jupiters body and is much larger than the suns magnetic.jupiters gravitational distortion of surrounding space is enormous and we must realise he is just two planets away from earth.

any comments?:boxedin:
 
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