Assuming God Exists, Could an Omnipotent God,

[citizenzen]

If so, you judge God as inferior...

I'm only working with the information I have at hand.

You tell me ... how can an all-knowing, all-powerful God create something, judge it as very good, only to have it go so wrong so fast? Was God overly optimistic about His creation? Or does God's notion of "very good" include the fall, the flood, and every plague and disaster in that holy book.

What is perfect, all-knowing and all-powerful about that?

What am I missing here?

 

[JudeBrando]

I'm only working with the information I have at hand.

You tell me ... how can an all-knowing, all-powerful God create something, judge it as very good, only to have it go so wrong so fast? Was God overly optimistic about His creation? Or does God's notion of "very good" include the fall, the flood, and every plague and disaster in that holy book.

What is perfect, all-knowing and all-powerful about that?

What am I missing here?

Go search out the matter some more for yourself.

Perhaps you might reconsider that The Almighty is able to get His Book to you.

 

[Ladewig]

Or maybe everything and anything is fine, it's all good, perfect in fact, except for this one thing, just don't do this one thing, so they promptly do that one thing, and then Adam blames God, just like many still do...

Why did God create the serpent to be more crafty than any of the other animals?
Why create talking animals anyway?

But more importantly, why hold Adam and Eve accountable for what they did? They had absolutely no knowledge of good and evil. They had absolutely no way of knowing that obeying God was good and disobeying God was evil. A two-year-old child raised by even semi-competent parents has more of an understanding of right and wrong than Adam and Eve did.

Why put the Tree there in the first place? If you are going to teach a newly created being how to avoid temptation, you start with small ones and work your way up to the temptations that will result in ALL MANKIND BEING CONDEMNED. Really WTF was God thinking?

 

[I Ratant]

Go search out the matter some more for yourself.

Perhaps you might reconsider that The Almighty is able to get His Book to you.

.
And in so many variations!
Ya gets to pick your very own inerrant one also.
And the sequels... Moh's, Joe Smith's.... each perfect in its own way.

 

[JudeBrando]

.
And in so many variations!
Ya gets to pick your very own inerrant one also.
And the sequels... Moh's, Joe Smith's.... each perfect in its own way.

Just for the sake of discussion, assuming an Almighty Creator God exists, and it turns out that He really did have a Book for you to take seriously while you were yet among the living, do you think that excuse would justify your rejection of it as reasonable to you or to Him? You would reject "God's Word" because Joseph Smith was a con-man and expect God to say "Yeah, good thinking, good point."?! Hypothetically speaking, of course.. if God is able, if God can, if God did, if God does, if God is...

 

[citizenzen]

Go search out the matter some more for yourself.

As luck would have it, I've joined an atheist/christian discussion group today.

I hope to share some insights and likewise be illuminated.

 

[JudeBrando]

As luck would have it, I've joined an atheist/christian discussion group today.

I hope to share some insights and likewise be illuminated.

It would seem that a good place to start might be the first book of the New Testament of the Bible. Read "The Gospel According to Matthew" in any or all of the contemporary English translations/versions. Not a thousand pages. Just thirty pages or so. Then please share some insights and tell if it was in any way illuminating.

 

[citizenzen]

Good place to start is the first book of the New Testament of the Bible. Read "The Gospel According to Matthew" in any or all of the contemporary English translations/versions. Not a thousand pages. Just thirty pages or so. Then please share some insights and tell if it was in any way illuminating.

Now that ain't gonna happen.

I'm just talking to people.

Just like I'm talking to you.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Or maybe everything and anything is fine, it's all good, perfect in fact, except for this one thing, just don't do this one thing, so they promptly do that one thing, and then Adam blames God, just like many still do...

You ignored the part about holding Adam's descendants responsible for his actions. Do you regard this as just?

If so, you judge God as inferior...

No, God does that himself in the narrative. He frequently expresses his displeasure with his creation, indicating that he is unable to get it right.

So anyone or anything opposing such "pure evil" must be good then, right?

That's a rather silly inference.

"Assuming God exists," but since you say "hes as close to pure evil as you can get," what do you then say of Satan?

Satan makes very few appearances in the Bible. The vast majority of the slaughter is committed by YHWH.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Go search out the matter some more for yourself.

So you don't have an answer.

Perhaps you might reconsider that The Almighty is able to get His Book to you.

You mean that book that is full of inaccuracies, contradictions and errors, and shows numerous alterations leading to many disputed variant readings over the centuries?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Just for the sake of discussion, assuming an Almighty Creator God exists, and it turns out that He really did have a Book for you to take seriously while you were yet among the living, do you think that excuse would justify your rejection of it as reasonable to you or to Him? You would reject "God's Word" because Joseph Smith was a con-man and expect God to say "Yeah, good thinking, good point."?! Hypothetically speaking, of course.. if God is able, if God can, if God did, if God does, if God is...

One doesn't need to read the Koran or the Book of Mormon to see that the Bible is the work of human authors who show no sign of divine inspiration.

 

[Foster Zygote]

It would seem that a good place to start might be the first book of the New Testament of the Bible. Read "The Gospel According to Matthew" in any or all of the contemporary English translations/versions. Not a thousand pages. Just thirty pages or so. Then please share some insights and tell if it was in any way illuminating.

Which brings us back to the matter of contradictions in the Bible. Who was the father of Joseph, Mary's husband?

 

[Corky]

Which brings us back to the matter of contradictions in the Bible. Who was the father of Joseph, Mary's husband?

Or just read the first chapter of Mark - the real first gospel - where there is no genealogy at all. Which also shows that the genealogies were later (and contradicting) inventions.

Just as with every other god-man myth, there is no childhood. The story always begins when the god-man is already an adult. Knowing this, the later gospel writers gave Jesus a childhood (of sorts) but no details.

It's all so obviously fake that I'm amazed that even mentally challenged people cannot see through it.

 

[temporalillusion]

Perhaps you might reconsider that The Almighty is able to get His Book to you.

If he's able, then the question becomes why didn't he?

 

[citizenzen]

Or maybe everything and anything is fine, it's all good, perfect in fact, except for this one thing, just don't do this one thing ...

And God just happens to stick that one thing right in front of them.

But don't do it! It's right there. But don't eat it. And I'll create the serpent so he can tempt you. But don't listen to him.

And again, if God is all-knowing, then he put that tree there knowing that even though he told them not to eat the fruit, that they would indeed eat that fruit.

So which is it? Is God indeed all-knowing? Did he set up a no-win situation for Adam and Eve? Or is God not all-knowing and was actually taken by surprise to have his creation so quickly go wrong?

Which is it JudeBrando? Do you see why we have a little problem with this story?

 

[Leumas]

And God just happens to stick that one thing right in front of them.

But don't do it! It's right there. But don't eat it. And I'll create the serpent so he can tempt you. But don't listen to him.

And again, if God is all-knowing, then he put that tree there knowing that even though he told them not to eat the fruit, that they would indeed eat that fruit.

So which is it? Is God indeed all-knowing? Did he set up a no-win situation for Adam and Eve? Or is God not all-knowing and was actually taken by surprise to have his creation so quickly go wrong?

Which is it JudeBrando? Do you see why we have a little problem with this story?

What do you call a parent who puts his child in the in a room full of hazards and then tells him to not touch any of it?

Is the parent denying his child free will by protecting him from hazards?

What do you call a parent who watches one child about to stab his sibling with a knife that the parent left there within their reach and then does nothing until the act is all over and then punishes the stabbing child by locking him in the cellar and torturing him?

What is even worse....what do you call a parent who ORDERS one child to kill his sibling to take his toy and even helps in doing so?

What do you call a parent who after helping one child kill his siblings to take theirs toys orders the child to kiss his feet and if he does not he goes and gets the child's cousins to come over and kill the child?

If we ever find a parent who does this kind of things would we be justified in executing him? Or should we say....no...he is the father of these children he can do whatever he wants?????

 

[Leumas]

Go search out the matter some more for yourself.

Perhaps you might reconsider that The Almighty is able to get His Book to you.

You are amazing..... when you ask for proof we give it to you....you then say that you are not willing to look at the proof and that you want it explained further because you are too lazy or don't know how to look up some verse references in a bible. But we give you the actual text of the verses regardless.

Now you want us to go look for a none-existing proof that you are not willing to even give an indication where YOU THINK it might be let alone actually show it to us as YOU DEMAND from others.

Do you know what the words HYPOCRISY and OBFUSCATION mean?

Just like you told us and we did comply many times and in many ways....I tell you in your own style :

I'm not going to search for a none-existing scripture for you.
You tell me, you quote the verses that make your point.
You show me it,
unless you are not telling the truth.​

 

[Minoosh]

But this OP is the most brilliant and convincing argument for atheism I've ever seen! If x then y is a classic statement in logic. We know that y is obviously false (an omnipotent God clearly did not get an accurate book delivered to us explaining history and his goals for the world). Then x must be false.

How you figure?

I will use this argument with all my theist friends. I'm sure I get many of them to reconsider their beliefs!

Can there exist a theism so benign that it's pointless to argue someone out of it?

 

[Leumas]

It would seem that a good place to start might be the first book of the New Testament of the Bible. Read "The Gospel According to Matthew" in any or all of the contemporary English translations/versions. Not a thousand pages. Just thirty pages or so. Then please share some insights and tell if it was in any way illuminating.

Yes.... a very good example....Matthew....right from the start.

How about the genealogy list of Jesus' lineage?

Wasn't Jesus supposed to be the SON OF GOD? So why is he now the son of Joseph?

Why is the list given WRONG.....many of the names given in the list are in DISAGREEMENT with the Tanakh.....many of the sons' names are WRONG and some of the ones that are right are not in fact the sons of the parents listed.

Why is Jesus portrayed as an ignorant magic trickster, a servile coward, a bigoted racist, a Hypocrite and a FALSE PROPHET?

Of course that is not to mention the fact that Matthew contradicts John and Mark in some of the most important aspects of the story...e.g. Number of women that went to the Tomb and what they saw there and who they told and what happened afterwards. Also the last words of Jesus on the cross and what happened after he croaked.


So yes....let's take Matthew and see how much of a testament it is to the IMBECILITY and INABILITY of God and how VILE he is.


Do you have any other suggestions....maybe Acts? Where Jesus kills a man and his wife without any chance for repentance afforded them because they did not give ALLLLLLL their MONEY to Peter?


Or Like Galatians which shows how the Followers of Jesus were fighting among themselves because they could not make heads or tails of the faith they are supposed to have and how to practice it and what it is all about RIGHT FROM THE INCEPTION.


If Paul, Peter and James could not AGREE or HARMONIZE on what the Jesus message was all about and about what should and will occur then what makes YOU or any person centuries later be sure that THEY DO????

If Jesus was not such a MORON he would have made sure that at the very least Paul and Peter and James could agree on the FAITH he is supposed to have expounded to them PERSONALLY.

 

[JudeBrando]

Don't worry, if he actually is who he is alleged to be, then you really will have your chance to tell him face-to-face.

If he's not, then it doesn't matter, and you're about to have an aneurysm for nothing.