Assistance required for telepathy proof

SOdhner said:
Suggested protocol:

G = Golfy
P = Participant
T = Neutral Third Party
C/S = Cat or Ship

G and P are placed close enough that G feels his telepathy can work, but are blocked from seeing each other. Both are blocked from seeing the results of the Stress Test thing.
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RemieV said:
To clarify, the JREF will not accept a protocol that uses a polygraph to measure results. Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable, and they can be tricked. Golfy, you should be against using a polygraph as well.

~Remie
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Sodhner,

While I can't see a way to game your protocol, I don't see Golfy getting a protocol accepted that includes a polgraph, or galvanic skin response or anything like that. He either needs to find a way to test his abilities without the use of those machines or apply for a different challenge.
 
Unlike a Bull said:
While I can't see a way to game your protocol, I don't see Golfy getting a protocol accepted that includes a polgraph, or galvanic skin response or anything like that. He either needs to find a way to test his abilities without the use of those machines or apply for a different challenge.
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That's a good call-out. It would still be a good thing for Golfy to try if he's convinced that his current method is working, however.
 
golfy said:
[snip]I have no intension of dragging this forum out for 18 months, in fact I see little point in writing on it any more – I know what I have to do is prove my point to the JREF and not to you. [/snip]
golfy
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Hi golfy. How's life?

Do you remember writing the words in the above quote almost three years ago?
 
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golfy said:
All my friends can hear my thoughts - if I dropped the ones that can hear me I would have no one I could call a "friend".
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If they can hear your thoughts, they must know you think they're liars, guilty parties in the universal cover-up (if you haven't already told them). If they really are lying and conspirators in a cover-up, then surely they're not really your friends? and why would you want to consider people who conspire to lie to you as friends? It doesn't make any sense.

How many times over the 20 (30?) years this has been going on, have you done the full polygraph test (i.e. at least 10 trials) ?
 
To Forum,

Yes I did consider a few times to use the quotes but I would have thought that anyway. I decided against it though but was aware that I should perhaps use them. Not sure that is proof of anything as that is a fairly obvious thing to use when on the forum. Perhaps you have mentioned it as you heard me thinking about using the quotes as a telepathic person and then decided to say that you transmitted it to me - that is equally possible don't you think?

James Randi will allow a GSR or other instruments in a JREF test - there are no rules against it. See "you tube". The criteria for the challenge is a demonstration of something which produces results that cannot be replicated in a normal way and therefore the only explanation is something is present that is in the "paranormal" world. This would include telepathy (something not recognised as possible by most scientists), telekinetic, key bending with the power of your mind -that kind of stuff. There are no rules to how this is done or demonstrated apart from the JREF and the claimant agree on a protocol together. The JREF will only agree on a protocol which they will view as cheat proof.

I agree with adding a third party to the cat ship test (say polygraph operator) and even a 4th party to dish out a pair of new words every time (cat ship then rock tree then sand bird etc) for each time the test is done and that the tester and tested should not be in view of each other and it should all be filmed by video cameras to use for viewing later that there was no form of cheating during the tests by either party.

The cat ship test I did with my Doctor is perfectly functional as a basis for a test plus the above - if you disagree then please explain how I knew she had cat from the reading on the meter when I did not know what word she had selected.

golfy
 
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golfy said:
The cat ship test I did with my Doctor is perfectly functional as a basis for a test plus the above - if you disagree then please explain how I knew she had cat from the reading on the meter when I did not know what word she had selected.

golfy
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That requires no explanation. The chances of you getting it right were one in two, since you only did the test once. That you got it right that one time is not proof of anything at all.
 
golfy said:
James Randi will allow a GSR or other instruments in a JREF test - there are no rules against it.
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RemieV said:
Hey, everyone. Sorry to get in on this conversation so late.

To clarify, the JREF will not accept a protocol that uses a polygraph to measure results. Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable, and they can be tricked. Golfy, you should be against using a polygraph as well.
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golfy, maybe you missed this from years ago.
 
Please explain the meter readings I got AdMan – 3 on one question – 18 on the other. It is not a coin toss situation.

How many times would you do a polygraph test to prove something?

If you did a poly test to ask someone "Did you rob the bank" - a "No" answer gave a positive "He did rob the bank" reading on the poly - did he rob the bank AdMan?

The poly test is done again - same result - did he rob the bank AdMan.

The poly test is repeated 1000 times - same result every time - did he rob the bank AdMan?

At what point are you totally certain that the accused bank robber did rob the bank? If 100000 tests were done and the result was the same ever time would that be a certain answer AdMan?

Can AdMan tell the forum how may poly tests that give the same "guilty of robbing the bank" readings it would take untill AdMan was certain that the man had robbed the bank?

If you grapple with this then you do not understand the test differences AdMan.

golfy
 
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golfy said:
Please explain the meter readings I got AdMan – 3 on one question – 18 on the other. It is not a coin toss situation.

How many times would you do a polygraph test to prove something?

If you did a poly test to ask someone "Did you rob the bank" - a "No" answer gave a positive "He did rob the bank" reading on the poly - did he rob the bank AdMan?

The poly test is done again - same result - did he rob the bank AdMan.

The poly test is repeated 1000 times - same result every time - did he rob the bank AdMan?

At what point are you totally certain that the accused bank robber did rob the bank? If 100000 tests were done and the result was the same ever time would that be a certain answer AdMan?

If you grapple with this then you do not understand the test differences AdMan.

golfy
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golfy, I don't want to argue with you. Suffice it to say that a single test like the one you did proves nothing. Your arguments are meaningless.

Like I said in an earlier post, I heard your recording. It does not help prove your case--quite the contrary--but I am sure you don't see it that way, and I'm pretty sure we can't convince you otherwise.

Like I also said, after listening to your recording I am glad that you are seeing a doctor.
 
AdMan,

Justify, don't just criticise - back up your comments with reason otherwise it is just lack of substance subjective opinion which is easy for anyone to do. I could for instance say “you are a total …….” and not back it up with any objective reasoning. I don’t think anyone would take me seriously if I simply did that.

If you fail to understand the difference between "heads you robbed the bank, tails you didn't" and a polygraph test which indicated that he did rob the bank and was then confirmed as true by a CCTV video recording of him robbing the bank then your opinions are irrelevant. The fact that you side stepped the above question proves my point.

golfy
 
Polygraphs don't mean anything. They're useless for the purpose you're using them for.
 
Please show me that quote DAO or is it mentally DOA?

golfy

PS Sledge,

As requested - please justify - you are like AdMan, you did not understand the cat ship test and the relevance of it. If you want me to accept your opinion, explain your premis. Explain the lack of relevance a poly has in the cat ship test otherwise like AdMan it is just unsubstantiated BS.

You seem to have a problem justifying your statement – do you not understand the test? Is it too hard for you to comprehend the accuracy of it compared to a coin toss?

Critics are ten a penny, intellectually intelligent people on forums are as rare a rocking horse dung in a woodwork shop.
 
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golfy said:
<snip>
How many times would you do a polygraph test to prove something?
<snip>
golfy
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Zero. Polygraphs prove nothing. You might as well weigh potential criminals against a duck for all the good they do.

For the purposes of the MDC here's two good reasons you won't be allowed to use a polygraph:

1) By design the output is manipulated by the person strapped to it. That allows the person strapped to it to intentionally manipulate the output. That's an avenue of potential trickery.

2) The polygraph operator would be considered a judge. Judges are verboten.

Of course, you could always send the JREF an e-mail in big red capital letters demanding special treatment.

I said you could, not that you should. :)
 
golfy said:
The poly test is repeated 1000 times - same result every time - did he rob the bank AdMan?
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Either he robbed the bank or he tightened his anus 1000 times. Either one will give a positive reading. Unless he's a good liar, in which case only the anus-tightening will give a positive reading.

Or, he can step on a tack hidden in his shoe. He could also bite down on his tongue, but polygraph operators are trained to look for this sort of thing.

There are probably hundreds of other ways to do it, but I think you get the point.
 
Hi Forum,

I am obviously conversing with people who are just critics with no basis to their criticism.

RemieV has said that polygraphs are not allowed - if you think that this is based on some kind of truth then you are easily led. RemieV is not the JREF - DOA does obviously not understand the polygraph nor does Sean84. How do you manipulate the poly to give the right answer or wrong answer if you do not know what the answer is? Have you questioned the statement that RemieV made. You have already told me that the JREF will not allow a GSR when there is a JREF experiment using a GSR on You Tube. If you do not know actual facts that you can justify then please refrain from making waste of time comments that are simply your opinion.

My original cat ship protocol used a GSR DOA which as I have shown James Randi allowed in an experiment - a poly is different how? Why would I change my protocol DOA when I have shown factually that it is allowed (not subjective guessing) in a JREF test? I was told on this forum it was not allowed - what was that information based on as it was totally wrong - was if from the same source that told me I could not use a poly i.e. a uninformed critic who does not know what he/she is talking about?

You ask me to accept your statements of “fact” without question but refuse to accept my statements of fact that I can back up with actual objective evidence.

Please think before replying a person quoting a fool is little else but a fool himself.

golfy
 
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