Assistance required for telepathy proof

To Lard2010,

That is possible if you assume that everyone can hear me and my thoughts travel any distance. I would only hear thoughts if someone else was telepathic as well.

golfy

Then either

a) no-one is able to transmit telepathically,
b) no-one else but you is able to transmit telepathically,
c) there is a limit on the distance that telepathic transmissions travel and if there are other telepathic transmitters, then they are more distant from you than that limit,
d) you are truly unable to receive telepathic transmissions, or
e) you are receiving telepathic transmissions but choose to deny the fact.

Some of the above are not mutually exclusive.

I would be interested in which of those alternatives you would choose, Golfy, or if you could suggest others?

Cheers

Lard
 
Have you offered half of your Million Dollar Prize to any of your friends to receive your thoughts?
 
Why would I offer 1/2 the money to a friend who is lying to me for years? I am quite willing to perfect my test and do it using a polygraph and a perfect stranger. If the other person was equally as valid in the test as me i.e. I was only telepathic with them alone and no one else (such as just my sister) then that would be OK for 1/2 the prize obviously. As anyone can do the cat ship test with me and win the JREF prize I think $10 000 is more than enough of an offer for doing a few hours work. It has taken years of struggling against lying game players to get to this point.

golfy
 
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If you would like to hear the "cat, ship" test with my Doctor, then you can hear it here

doctortest.WMA - 3.82MB

golfy


Somewhat against my better judgment, I listened to your recording. Let's just say that rather than helping your case at all, it was rather... revealing.

I am glad that you are seeing a doctor. Don't miss your sessions.
 
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All my friends can hear my thoughts - if I dropped the ones that can hear me I would have no one I could call a "friend".

golfy
 
All my friends can hear my thoughts - if I dropped the ones that can hear me I would have no one I could call a "friend".

golfy

Now these friends of yours . . . What does your doctor have to say about them?
 
Why would I offer 1/2 the money to a friend who is lying to me for years? I am quite willing to perfect my test and do it using a polygraph and a perfect stranger. If the other person was equally as valid in the test as me i.e. I was only telepathic with them alone and no one else (such as just my sister) then that would be OK for 1/2 the prize obviously. As anyone can do the cat ship test with me and win the JREF prize I think $10 000 is more than enough of an offer for doing a few hours work. It has taken years of struggling against lying game players to get to this point.

golfy

And no one has taken you up for the offer to make $10 000? Why do you think that is?

First of all, polygraphs are not 100% reliable. So as soon as you spend all that money and time on your "lie proof" test and still get the same results, you still have an excuse.

Please, seriously consider this: What is more likely?

1)That out of all the people(dozens? hundreds?) you have tried your telepathy on, 100% of them are lying. Not one person has said, "Wow, thats pretty cool. I bet we could find a way to make a fortune doing this. Or at the very least gain worldwide recognition and change science forever."

or

2)You are mistaken about your abilities.
 
So let me get this straight Golfy. No sarcasm here, no condescension, I'm trying to pin this down as accurately as possible. You have a claim, the onus is on you for evidence. Now what you're saying is you can send telepathic words/thoughts/messages to people. They will receive them, however virtually all or the majority of people or nearly everyone or otherwise a large number of people simply lie about it? They are either scared or are maliciously withholding from you the fact that they did receive your telepathic message?

Further, you're saying the only evidence you have of your ability is using complex testing methods such as using bio-feedback? You're saying you have used bio-feedback machines to see if someone was mentally "acknowledging" your telepathic message? You're saying something happens on the machine's readings that makes you believe they can actually receive your telepathy?

If this is all correct then the problems are twofold. Firstly it is cynical, delusional and irrational to assume no one on this planet would be honest and write down what you send to them telepathically. If you are able to do this there is no reason why any person would lie. When you say this you are throwing up a big red pathological flag. When people hear such a thing they in all logic and reason question your mental health. It is more than reasonable and logical to say there are more than enough people on this planet who would not lie about such a thing. They have absolutely no good reason to lie about it. Are you familiar with Occam's razor? It's far more simple an explanation that you do not have telepathic abilities, rather than the explanation that you have these abilities but that everyone is out to get you and will not tell the truth about receiving your messages.

The second and final issue I have is that you're assuming bio-feedback and polygraph testing can prove this for you. They cannot. There is no science to this, there is no evidence to this. You are looking at arbitrary data and saying it proves something it can't. A spike on some bio-feedback machine does not prove a person has received your message. There is no machine designed to tell if a person has received a specific telepathic message from you. The machine is probably registering some kind of data because the person is psyching themselves into "attempting" to receive your message since they are probably good natured people giving you the benefit of the doubt. As for polygraphs there is absolutely no credible scientific link between the vital signs it reads and the act of lying.

For that matter, if people are as dishonest as you say they are, why should we trust a machine that must be calibrated by people? Could they not "rig" one of these devices to your detriment? In that case why attempt this? Or are you saying you should be able to provide the machinery from your personal collection? In that case how can we trust you to not rig said machines for your benefit? Your attempt to remove the "human" element from this equation and process actually leaves more room for human error.

It basically comes down to this: Either everyone in the world is lying to you, or you are lying to us or are otherwise mistaken about your "abilities." I think the latter is the most reasonable possibility. I think the former is an exercise in paranoia, irrationality, delusion, cynicism and denial.

I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I'd say if you really want to prove your ability you need to drop from any proposition for testing these pseudo-scientific devices, as well as these overly complex and flawed testing methods. If there is no one in this entire world who you can trust to be honest about your ability then you have absolutely no way to prove it. I would really pity such a depressive worldview, though, and I hope you agree to one of the more reasonable methods suggested thus far.
 
That would rely on people being honest which is the whole problem.

Tell you what, for $100K (10%) of the prize, I would happily participate in the challenge as your receiver. Since I don't know you, I would be acting on completely selfish interests and would be happy simply to write down the words that you send. No electronics needed. I really want that $100K, and would have no reason to lie.

You could probably get another complete stranger to do it for $50K, but I'm the greedy type.

Norm
 
Originally Posted by golfy
To Lard2010,

That is possible if you assume that everyone can hear me and my thoughts travel any distance. I would only hear thoughts if someone else was telepathic as well.

golfy

Then either

a) no-one is able to transmit telepathically,
b) no-one else but you is able to transmit telepathically,
c) there is a limit on the distance that telepathic transmissions travel and if there are other telepathic transmitters, then they are more distant from you than that limit,
d) you are truly unable to receive telepathic transmissions, or
e) you are receiving telepathic transmissions but choose to deny the fact.

Some of the above are not mutually exclusive.

I would be interested in which of those alternatives you would choose, Golfy, or if you could suggest others?

Cheers

Lard
 
Hi Lard,

I am obviously going to get a lot of sarcastic "lame ducks trying to drag me down" comments on this forum as usual. I got criticised last time as expected and see no point trying to convince people who are not going be judging the results of my ability. I have improved my protocol and it is working despite the endless criticism. It would be better for me to continue with my own efforts into proving my claim rather than wasting my time trying to convince people who deliberately don't get the point and refuse to accept scientific evidence over word of mouth.

I know my abilities and just need to work at it untill I have an independent adjudicator judging the results such as James Randi, not some of the above forum members. That will happen once I have enough evidence (scientific) that cannot be explained is being created by any other method other than by the fact that I am telepathic and that other people can hear my thoughts.

golfy
 
I have improved my protocol and it is working despite the endless criticism.

If I may ask, how many times has it worked? How many times has it failed?

Have you tried your protocol in an environment where you cannot see the other person at all? It is important you have no visual cues as to which slip they selected nor what they may have written down.

Also, the person asking the questions should be a neutral third party with no knowledge of what either of you wrote.

By the way, why is writing anything even necessary? Why not just have you and the other person flip through shuffled decks of cards. Does the color match/does the color not match? The neutral third part would record the interpretation of the device reading (same/different/can't tell), and then only after the test is completed would the two decks be reviewed side-by-side and compared against the device reading interpretation.

It would be better for me to continue with my own efforts into proving my claim rather than wasting my time trying to convince people who deliberately don't get the point and refuse to accept scientific evidence over word of mouth.

Well, in all fairness, the one audio recording you provided was neither scientific nor convincing.
 
Hi Lard,

I am obviously going to get a lot of sarcastic "lame ducks trying to drag me down" comments on this forum as usual. I got criticised last time as expected and see no point trying to convince people who are not going be judging the results of my ability. I have improved my protocol and it is working despite the endless criticism. It would be better for me to continue with my own efforts into proving my claim rather than wasting my time trying to convince people who deliberately don't get the point and refuse to accept scientific evidence over word of mouth.

I know my abilities and just need to work at it untill I have an independent adjudicator judging the results such as James Randi, not some of the above forum members. That will happen once I have enough evidence (scientific) that cannot be explained is being created by any other method other than by the fact that I am telepathic and that other people can hear my thoughts.

golfy

Granted - I accept that you believe in your abilities. I would just like, for the sake of my own curiosity, to get to the bottom of what it is that makes you so sure of what you believe and what other options you have taken into account. I bear no malice and I'm making no criticism yet.

Would you mind selecting one or more of the options I came up with as being closest to your view?

Cheers

Lard
 
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Hi Lard2010,

Closest in my opinion is option B but not proven or perhaps not even accurate. What matters is I am telepathic whether others are or not. I am not trying to prove others ability or judge them, I am trying to prove my ability. People that I meet can hear me thinking and that is what I know about myself. I cannot state others abilities. If they think they have the same ability then the cat ship test is a fine protocol if done correctly to prove that.

golfy
 
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Hi Golfy,

If then you are of the opinion that you and only you are capable of this faculty then I would suggest that you are suffering from a form of Messianic Delusion or some other Delusion of Grandeur. Hey, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I really think you should consider seeing one.

Just a suggestion.

No, really.

Cheers

Lard
 
Suggested protocol:

G = Golfy
P = Participant
T = Neutral Third Party
C/S = Cat or Ship

G and P are placed close enough that G feels his telepathy can work, but are blocked from seeing each other. Both are blocked from seeing the results of the Stress Test thing.

T randomly selects C or S for G, and gives him a card with the word or picture or both. T takes note of which one G has.

T asks P "Does Golfy have 'CAT'?". P responds with a YES (meaning G has the 'cat' card) or NO (meaning G has the 'ship' card). T notes the reply, and also notes the readout on the stress tester.

T asks P "Does Golfy have 'SHIP'?". P responds with a YES (meaning G has the 'ship' card) or NO (meaning G has the 'cat' card). T notes the reply, and also notes the readout on the stress tester.

T collects the card from G, and randomly selects again. The process above repeats until T has twenty results.

T presents the Stress Test data for analysis, WITHOUT revealing what card P indicated that G had. The data is in a scrambled order.

G indicates which responses he feels are lies, still not knowing what was said at those times. G agrees when complete that these are final answers and will not change once the YES/NO data is revealed. If G marks any as being unsure, those are eliminated. If too many are eliminated (not sure how to set the number) the whole test is invalidated.

T unscrambles the Stress Test data and lines it up with the YES/NO data. Any result where G listed it as a LIE and the answer was correct means that set is a miss. Any result where G listed it as TRUE and the answer was incorrect means that set is a miss.

If there are more hits than what would be expected by chance, G enters to win the $1,000,000 prize. If there are not, G admits defeat.

---

The one thing I'm not pleased with here is not having a third option of "I have no idea what card Golfy has", but if the protocol above is followed that shouldn't be a big deal.
 
I would work on a protocol without the polygraph/"stress tester". It just adds another unnecessary complication.

It doesn't make any sense to start with the assumption that everyone will lie.
 
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It doesn't make any sense to start with the assumption that everyone will lie.

But golfy has that assumption. If we can determine a protocol that doesn't rely on the cooperation of the receiver, then all the better.

I agree that it's frustrating that not even ONE cooperative receiver can be found.
 

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