Ask all firefighting and fire related questions here

[NYCEMT86]

NYCEMT86, this might give the folks in the non-FF community a bit of an idea how standpipe operations work:

http://www.fireengineering.com/index/videos.html?bcpid=30311426001&bclid=6505716001&bctid=8590312001

and

http://www.fireengineering.com/inde...0311426001&bclid=6505716001&bctid=13311418001

Our SOP here in Montreal for high rise standpipe operations is either 3in line with smooth bore nozzle, or 3in line into a Y gate valve into 2 1 3/4 lines with convertible nozzles. Each engine and truck has a standpipe/subway kit which consists of a kit bag, 1 3in line and 2 1 3/4 lines. We always bring our own line, never use the buildings...

I agree that "2 lines" if they are 2 1/2 or 3in line can mean LOTS of water. And even if he were talking about 1 3/4in lines, this communication may be taken out of context. "Only 2 lines" is a completely meaningless argument.

Pat

Thanks for the links Pat


You might enjoy this FDNY Standpipe operations.

How could a fire cause what is termed a 'progressive collapse' in WTC7 in which all four widely seperated corners fall at exactly the same time. THis is proven by the fact that the roof stays level all the way down.

(I have to say the answers around here are only working for the choir. Neither me nor I suspect the readers are impressed)

Fire causes of the mechanism of collapse, the way the building is designed and what failed has a huge effect on the type of collapse.

I suggest you pick up some NFPA books and read the links provided by ve2vfd

Sigh..the concrete floors between the floors were smashed allowing him a view above. He did not report seeing any more fire than the couple of isolated pockets.

Do you have the audio of the battalion chief ? lol

Have you ever been in a smoke filled room?

Here is the audio you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1g3OAOiOP0

 

[Mr.Herbert]

How rude you are. Lucky I am not a stoolie like may others.

see that's funny. You come into this thread spread lies and filth...I'm rude for calling you a scum bag? I'll ask again... when will you be backing your claims?

 

[NYCEMT86]

And you are so sure of this because you were standing right next to him I guess? Of course, he could see all 40,000 sq feet of the floor where he was AND the floors above clearly thru the partitions, debris and smoke...

*sigh*

Pat

You know, all fires are like the movie backdraft

 

[Edx]

You wrongly quoted Palmer as saying the following :-

''we've got isolated pockets of fire, we're gonna need at least two hand lines up there ''

Except no one says Floor 78 was a raging inferno. The fire was two floors ABOVE that.

But you already knew that.

 

[DGM]

You know I like to drop the hammer in my own time DGM

Your problem at this point is your holding hundreds of "hammers". The "readers" (I suspect) are starting (already) to think your full of crap.

 

[bill smith]

Thanks for the links Pat


You might enjoy this FDNY Standpipe operations.




Fire causes of the mechanism of collapse, the way the building is designed and what failed has a huge effect on the type of collapse.

I suggest you pick up some NFPA books and read the links provided by ve2vfd




Have you ever been in a smoke filled room?

Here is the audio you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1g3OAOiOP0

In the future remember to quote the statement of Palmer who is the witness here and not somebody who is paraphrasing him. Especially when they are both on the same short tape as is the case here. Okay ?

 

[bill smith]

see that's funny. You come into this thread spread lies and filth...I'm rude for calling you a scum bag? I'll ask again... when will you be backing your claims?

Ask lefty Sarge for the evidence he refers to in an earlier post. None of this is lies.....that's your problem.

 

[bill smith]

Except no one says Floor 78 was a raging inferno. The fire was two floors ABOVE that.

But you already knew that.

But to get to the 78th the plane had to come through the floor above. Leaving a massive hole that Palmer could see into of course you silly billy. He did not report seeing any fire othere than the 'Two isolated pockets' that he said ' could be ' knocked down with two lines' (he didn't mention hand lines mind)

 

[NYCEMT86]

But to get to the 78th the plane had to come through the floor above. Leaving a massive hole that Palmer could see into of course you silly billy. He did not report seeing any fire othere than the 'Two isolated pockets' that he said ' could be ' knocked down with two lines' (he didn't mention hand lines mind)

Tell me, what do you think the significant difference is between "lines" and "hand lines"?

 

[bill smith]

Tell me, what do you think the significant difference is between "lines" and "hand lines"?

No clue. I just want to stick to the reality of what Palmer said and he did not mention handlines'.

I would not be surprised to find that handlines carry more water than mere lines do for instance though. lol. Am I right ??

 

[NYCEMT86]

No clue. I just want to stick to the reality of what Palmer said and he did not mention handlines'.

I would not be surprised to find that handlines carry more water than mere lines do though. lol. Am I right ??

Different terms, same meaning, also known as an attack line. A hose with a nozzle on the end.

 

[DGM]

Different terms, same meaning, also known as an attack line. A hose with a nozzle on the end.

Just to clarify:
It's my understanding that "two lines" in no way means a small fire. We're talking huge amounts of water, right?

 

[bill smith]

Different terms, same meaning, also known as an attack line. A hose with a nozzle on the end.

So how are you fixed for answering post number 15 above ?
See hyperlink.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5569879&postcount=15 hyperlink

 

[bill smith]

Just to clarify:
It's my understanding that "two lines" in no way means a small fire. We're talking huge amounts of water, right?

Like any firehose DGM.

 

[DGM]

Like any firehose DGM.

Are you a firefighter? How much fire is fought with said hose? How many GPM?

 

[bill smith]

Are you a firefighter? How much fire is fought with said hose? How many GPM?

It doesn't matter. Palmer was not concerned about the fires That nuch is obvious. He thought they were a minor concern as he essentially said. I can post the audio if you want ?

 

[DGM]

It doesn't matter. Palmer was not concerned about the fires That nuch is obvious. He thought they were a minor concern as he essentially said. I can post the audio if you want ?

And you know this how? Have you spoke to him? Your speculating what a professional meant.

Can you answer my question, "how much fire is fought with two (hand) lines"?

 

[bill smith]

And you know this how? Have you spoke to him? Your speculating what a professional meant.

Can you answer my question, "how much fire is fought with two (hand) lines"?

Well obviously two lines are enough to put down ''two isolated pockets of fire'' One line each I suspect. That's what the prefessional said.

After that I don't need the math.

 

[BigAl]

How long do you suspect the fire burned in the northeast corner of WTC7 to generate the temperatures that initiated the collapse?

Long enough and hot enough. I'll take your unsubstantiated word that the fire was on the NE corner. My recollection is that most of the action happened on the SW corner.

 

[DGM]

Well obviously two lines are enough to put down ''two isolated pockets of fire'' One line each I suspect. That's what the prefessional said.

After that I don't need the math.

What is the definition of "two isolated pockets"? How much fire are we really talking about, Bill?

Why are you so afraid of firefighters answering my questions? Let the pros speak.