Ariel Castro: Not my fault...

Sorry, but I stand by what I said. There are indeed a whole range of factors, big and small, which do contribute to crime rates. For a very basic and obvious example, crime rates tends to be higher than average in low-income neighbourhoods.

Let's see, "it's never the individual's fault. Society failed him" is the line used by people who try to make excuses for the likes of...
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I just wrote, in the post you replied to, that "of course he acted out of his own "free will", if there is such a thing", so I don't see why you feel the need to point this out to me.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Yes, unfortunately that appears to be the best we can do. Perhaps in the future we might be able to catch these people before they go off the rails, maybe even cure or prevent their mental illnesses (to everyone's benefit). Unfortunately at present it seems nobody is willing to do anything about the problem - except wait until after they have committed atrocities and then lock them up.
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What do you think we should do? At what point in his past should people have intervened? Based on what? How receptive do you think he would have been to treatment? And do we have a type of treatment that has been shown to help change someone like this?
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Sorry, but I stand by what I said. There are indeed a whole range of factors, big and small, which do contribute to crime rates. For a very basic and obvious example, crime rates tends to be higher than average in low-income neighbourhoods.
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True, but it doesn't explain things like kidnapping 3 women and sexually abusing them for over a decade. And ultimately, it's a matter of choice. Look at the video linked below, and imagine the typical criminal as Captain Walker. They CHOSE to commit crime, nothing more, nothing less. You try to excuse their actions by blaming "mental issues" just like Walker blaming Konrad, because the best thing to do for such things is to put a bullet in their head and put them out of society's misery.
 
Bob001 said:
So what's your proposal? You think everybody should be in therapy? Or you think everybody who can't pass a screening test should be locked up? Or what?
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I don't know, but then I'm not an expert in human psychology. I don't have a cure for Aids either, but I don't think we should stop looking for one.

the vast majority of people who commit monstrous crimes are not diagnosable as insane.
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No, but only by the narrow legal definition of criminal insanity. The fact is that many criminals behave differently because they have brain abnormalities.

Criminal Minds Are Different From Yours, Brain Scans Reveal
In one recent study, scientists examined 21 people with antisocial personality disorder – a condition that characterizes many convicted criminals. Those with the disorder "typically have no regard for right and wrong. They may often violate the law and the rights of others," according to the Mayo Clinic.

Brain scans of the antisocial people, compared with a control group of individuals without any mental disorders, showed on average an 18-percent reduction in the volume of the brain's middle frontal gyrus, and a 9 percent reduction in the volume of the orbital frontal gyrus – two sections in the brain's frontal lobe.
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If they act differently because they have brain anomalies then putting the blame on them may make you feel better, but it won't fix the problem.

Castro knew what he was doing was wrong; that's why he went to such great lengths to conceal it. Fear of punishment is an effective deterrent to misbehavior.
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Fear of punishment didn't work for him though, did it?

Maybe if his first wife had called the cops the first time he abused her, three young girls wouldn't have had their lives ruined.
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Yes, it's a pity that nobody was able to do anything about his aberrant behavior until now. But that's what you get for ignoring a problem until it gets out of hand.

Seeing him go to prison forever might deter someone else who is contemplating similar behavior. And if he suffers, that's part of the package he paid for.
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Certainly he will suffer (though not enough for some people apparently). The thought of being incarcerated with a good chance of getting raped and/or killed in prison - or even the Death Penalty - is more then enough to dissuade a normal person, but people like him are not normal. If the punishment is harsher, they just try harder to avoid getting caught.

Or do you think "Gee, I'm sick" should be a magic get-out-of-jail-free card?
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Of course not. Locking him up forever is the only practical solution we have right now. I just wish some progress could be made. What we are doing now is the equivalent of telling Aids sufferers "It's your fault for having unprotected gay sex". That may even be true in some cases, but it doesn't stop the disease from spreading.
 
So it's not Captain Walker's fault that he behaved like a Horned Reaper in Dubai? It was all problems with his brain then? Hm, when the Brain is his Konrad...
 
desertgal said:
You misunderstood me, but that's my fault, because I stated it fuzzily.



I didn't mean he should be physically tortured, only that the slow passage of time in solitary might be torturous for him. And, no, I don't wish that for anyone, but neither am I going to shed tears over Castro's predicament.

I did not, and never have, said that I relish or take pleasure in the idea of anyone being physically tortured. Please don't attribute that to me.
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I'll take it. I think this guy should be tortured, physically. But, of course legally we couldn't do that, nor is it ethical. But, my emotional side is cool with that.
 
It's possible he actually did all of those things because he's seriously mentally ill, and it's possible he believes every word that comes out of his own mouth, and genuinely feels he's being poorly treated.

He still deserves to rot for the rest of his life, as the actions themselves are still as evil as ever.

Maybe in the future we'll identify sociopaths and the mentally ill early in life, and use surgery to make them in to safe members of society. Until then, he goes to the big house with every other criminal.

Edit: Reading the rest of the thread, I see some posters have similar thoughts.
 
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NWO Sentryman said:
So it's not Captain Walker's fault that he behaved like a Horned Reaper in Dubai? It was all problems with his brain then? Hm, when the Brain is his Konrad...
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I don't see anyone arguing that the mentally ill should get a pass. However, acting like severely mentally ill people have the same ability as the rest of us to make sound choices is disingenuous.

In a very meaningful way, the mentally ill are not "in control" of their actions; in a way like, say, a man who plots your death for insurance money is in control.

They still need to be locked away to protect society.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
This sick **** deserves a bullet to the head.
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CORed said:
I agree, though I think something slower and much more painful would be even better.
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Magic 9-Ball said:
I would agree, and have my ideas of a punishment. And I don't know in this case, but I would think the victims AND their families would have to agree to his pleading guilty and his punishment?
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This is a little disturbing. While I am appalled by the monstrosity of this man, it is somewhat disturbing to see people fantasizing about torturing him or having him raped in prison. To me, that is pretty sick too, even if "justified" by the fact that this is a very bad man.

And this is why I support limited use of the death penalty. It is more humane than being forced to live in a tiny hole for years with no hope of getting out, and vastly more humane than the tortures that some people would inflict if they had the chance. Just cut out the cancer.

Another note, Castro's plea that he thought he had a loving houshold and maybe didn't understand his crime is, in my opinion, no defense. If a person is unable to fathom why what they did is wrong, the chance of rehabilitating them is much smaller. It should trigger a harsher sentence, not a weaker one.
 
Tricky said:
This is a little disturbing. While I am appalled by the monstrosity of this man, it is somewhat disturbing to see people fantasizing about torturing him or having him raped in prison. To me, that is pretty sick too, even if "justified" by the fact that this is a very bad man.

And this is why I support limited use of the death penalty. It is more humane than being forced to live in a tiny hole for years with no hope of getting out, and vastly more humane than the tortures that some people would inflict if they had the chance. Just cut out the cancer.

Another note, Castro's plea that he thought he had a loving houshold and maybe didn't understand his crime is, in my opinion, no defense. If a person is unable to fathom why what they did is wrong, the chance of rehabilitating them is much smaller. It should trigger a harsher sentence, not a weaker one.
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Amen, brother.
 
Tricky said:
This is a little disturbing. While I am appalled by the monstrosity of this man, it is somewhat disturbing to see people fantasizing about torturing him or having him raped in prison. To me, that is pretty sick too, even if "justified" by the fact that this is a very bad man.

And this is why I support limited use of the death penalty. It is more humane than being forced to live in a tiny hole for years with no hope of getting out, and vastly more humane than the tortures that some people would inflict if they had the chance. Just cut out the cancer.

Another note, Castro's plea that he thought he had a loving houshold and maybe didn't understand his crime is, in my opinion, no defense. If a person is unable to fathom why what they did is wrong, the chance of rehabilitating them is much smaller. It should trigger a harsher sentence, not a weaker one.
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Not sure capital punishment is more humane, imprisoned people don't seem to think so. I'll wager people on death row would be happy to get commuted to life with no parole, and that people who have life with no parole are not attempting suicide any more often that people with other kinds of sentences. Even a crappy life is better than no life.

And for myself I'm not hoping he gets repeatedly raped but if he is repeatedly raped, I'm not going to be terribly perturbed by it.
 
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Tricky said:
Another note, Castro's plea that he thought he had a loving houshold and maybe didn't understand his crime is, in my opinion, no defense. If a person is unable to fathom why what they did is wrong, the chance of rehabilitating them is much smaller. It should trigger a harsher sentence, not a weaker one.
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I disagree. A harsher sentence for a creature that doesn't even understand why is a perversion of justice and a gratuitous torment.

I would prefer to reserve sentencing of this kind for rational actors who make an informed decision to take the risk, and who understand the consequences that have befallen them.

For creatures who lack the basic humanity to understand the purpose of their sentencing, I'd prefer prompt, humane termination of their life.
 
theprestige said:
I disagree. A harsher sentence for a creature that doesn't even understand why is a perversion of justice and a gratuitous torment.

I would prefer to reserve sentencing of this kind for rational actors who make an informed decision to take the risk, and who understand the consequences that have befallen them.

For creatures who lack the basic humanity to understand the purpose of their sentencing, I'd prefer prompt, humane termination of their life.
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That would depend on whether or not your intent was to punish them, rehabilitate them, or protect the public. It is hard to rehab mentally incompetent people. Often, the best you can do is keep them off the streets, one way or another.
 
ZirconBlue said:
I can, and I'm glad they did. He's pretty much guaranteed to die in jail, and his victims don't have to be put through the trauma of years of trial and appeals.
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This is pretty much it. A plea deal served to make his victims go through just a little less horror after their escape.

And if this jerk isn't in high security solitary, I make his life expectancy in weeks, not years.

I'm opposed to the death penalty in 99.5% of cases at least...but this thing is a mad dog that is shaped like a human. It should just be removed from the planet. Fortunately, the prison system is known for how it treats child molesters...
 
Travis said:
Actually prisons have gotten pretty good at keeping such people from being harmed by the other prisoners.
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Having worked 5 years as a Correctional RN, indeed that is so. I still oppose asking inmates to do the dirty work by delivering beating and rape to each other.
 
"I want this man to be raped!"
"Why?"
"Because rape is bad!"

Um, yeah. Good luck with that.
 
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