Ariel Castro: Not my fault...

[Ziggurat]

Thank you for your replies. I think you both raised the same point, the ability of the woman to get out of the marriage. In Castro's case it is the extreme case. As I pointed out the chains are visible. But in cases where the woman is abused the chains are still there, just invisible. This makes it even worse as these women cannot show their chains to people. That is what I meant by "for one reason or another".

Who exactly do you imagine these enslaved women got to show their chains to? You know, their actual chains, not metaphorical ones.

Metaphorical chains can be terrible things, I do not deny that, but they really aren't the same. They do not make it impossible for a person (and let's not imagine that metaphorical chains only apply to women) to leave an abusive marriage. What they do is make it emotionally painful enough to leave that the person chooses not to, but they still have a choice.

As for beginning voluntarily, yes they do enter something voluntarily, but the woman may have no idea what their husbands are going to be like. If the man is abusive can we say the woman entered the relationship voluntarily? Or was it another relationship she agreed to enter?

I don't disagree on that point: if the behavior of the spouse fundamentally changes after marriage, then the person has not voluntarily entered into that situation. I'm not making the distinction based on how the situation was entered into, but on the possibilities of leaving it. They can still leave, even if they find it emotionally difficult to do so.

I want to make it clear that I'm not blaming those who do not, I'm merely pointing out that there still is a fundamental difference between an option existing and no option existing. And the fact that physical captivity is far worse doesn't mean that what you're describing isn't still very, very bad.

 

[trustbutverify]

That's right folks, rape is OK! and should be encouraged when it's a punishment!

Hopefully, he will not be savagely beaten to within a quarter inch of his life, of which he would live out in a type of agony he had never before imagined could exist. After all, he provided a harmonious home for his guests, and the sex was entirely consensual. In fact, It was their idea in the first place. And lets not forget, he's the real victim here, what with the abuse and the porn addiction and whatnot.

 

[trustbutverify]

Only because she was no longer the favorite.

I think if someone you loved experienced something like this, your witless joke might not seem so funny.

 

[Hungry81]

I agree that he is psychotic, but my reaction is somewhat different. Incurably insane people should be pitied, especially if they end up committing heinous crimes. If a rabid dog attacked someone, would you recommend that it be tortured slowly while rotting in solitary confinement? If not, what justification do you have for treating people worse than animals?

Castro told the court, "I am not a monster, I am just sick". He was only half right. He is a monster, but he is also sick. It is a pity that nobody was able to intervene and treat his sickness before it caused him to become a monster.

The girls will get over their ordeal and go on to live normal lives. He will die in prison, constantly reminded of the crimes that got him there. I don't think he got an 'easy way out'.

Are you one of those "it's not the crims fault, its societies fault" type people? Get real. He deserves the same amount of pity he showed the victims and their families. You are sounding like a criminal enabler.

Yes its a shame no one knew to intervene earlier, but not because he needed help, but because the abducted women chained up in his damn house did.
He gets no pity or sympathy from me and frankly it surprises me he is getting it from anyone.

 

[desertgal]

I agree that he is psychotic, but my reaction is somewhat different. Incurably insane people should be pitied, especially if they end up committing heinous crimes. If a rabid dog attacked someone, would you recommend that it be tortured slowly while rotting in solitary confinement? If not, what justification do you have for treating people worse than animals?

Castro told the court, "I am not a monster, I am just sick". He was only half right. He is a monster, but he is also sick. It is a pity that nobody was able to intervene and treat his sickness before it caused him to become a monster.

I see your point, but don't agree with the comparison. He is reaping what he sowed. I don't need to justify that.

The girls will get over their ordeal and go on to live normal lives.

No offense intended, but I don't agree. They will go on to live normal lives, and I hope devoutly they are happy ones. But they will never get over their ordeal completely.

He will die in prison, constantly reminded of the crimes that got him there. I don't think he got an 'easy way out'.

You misunderstood me. In my opinion, execution would be the "easy way out". Life imprisonment, in solitary confinement, is a more fitting punishment.

 

[KatieG]

I think if someone you loved experienced something like this, your witless joke might not seem so funny.

I don't think you'd have to have a loved one experience this to come to the same opinion.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Hopefully, he will not be savagely beaten to within a quarter inch of his life, of which he would live out in a type of agony he had never before imagined could exist. After all, he provided a harmonious home for his guests, and the sex was entirely consensual. In fact, It was their idea in the first place. And lets not forget, he's the real victim here, what with the abuse and the porn addiction and whatnot.

He's like Captain Walker. He never meant to hurt anyone, Konrad made him do it.

Who are we kidding? This thing is pure depravity, and I won't shed a tear if it gets the attention of Bubba for the rest of its existence.

 

[bruto]

I might feel a little twinge of sympathy toward Castro if his so-called confession were not so filled with self-serving excuses. He's a sex addict guilty of pornography and masturbation (as if kidnapping girls might have been a better solution to the problem?), and anyway, they weren't virgins, the naughty things, and they're lying about how nice he was to them. See, he can't be a monster, because they can still walk and talk.

It's probably incurably optimistic to think that a long life behind bars will fill him with remorse. More likely it will fill him with more lies and anger and stupidity, but it's the best one can do.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I might feel a little twinge of sympathy toward Castro if his so-called confession were not so filled with self-serving excuses. He's a sex addict guilty of pornography and masturbation (as if kidnapping girls might have been a better solution to the problem?), and anyway, they weren't virgins, the naughty things, and they're lying about how nice he was to them. See, he can't be a monster, because they can still walk and talk.

It's probably incurably optimistic to think that a long life behind bars will fill him with remorse. More likely it will fill him with more lies and anger and stupidity, but it's the best one can do.

If his crimes are anything to go by, his time in prison will be painfully short.

 

[Craig4]

Only because she was no longer the favorite.

Why did you write this?

 

[eeyore1954]

At his sentencing hearing, Ariel Castro claims -- in front of Michelle Knight! --that he maintained a "home full of harmony" with his victims, that he never hurt them, and sex with them was consensual. He says he's a victim of childhood abuse and asks for forgiveness. The judge is now explaining the legal definition of "sexually violent predator."

I am against the death penalty, but for this guy I'd make an exception.

http://www.cnn.com/

I am against cruel and unusual punishment also but you would not hear me complain if he was chained in a cell with some guy named Bubba.

 

[Cleon]

I might feel a little twinge of sympathy toward Castro if his so-called confession were not so filled with self-serving excuses. He's a sex addict guilty of pornography and masturbation (as if kidnapping girls might have been a better solution to the problem?), and anyway, they weren't virgins, the naughty things, and they're lying about how nice he was to them. See, he can't be a monster, because they can still walk and talk.

It's probably incurably optimistic to think that a long life behind bars will fill him with remorse. More likely it will fill him with more lies and anger and stupidity, but it's the best one can do.

I wonder how much of his ramblings he really believes, and how much he's forced himself to believe to avoid looking at himself for what he really is.

The human mind is a strange thing.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I see your point, but don't agree with the comparison. He is reaping what he sowed. I don't need to justify that.

What he 'reaped' was life in prison, but that's not good enough for you. You want him to be tortured as well - even though you admit that his actions were caused by mental illness.

You misunderstood me. In my opinion, execution would be the "easy way out". Life imprisonment, in solitary confinement, is a more fitting punishment.

That's an interesting argument against the Death Penalty. Does the thought of him being tortured in prison for years make you feel better? Well some of us don't want people to be tortured for any reason, particularly if they are mentally ill. Some of us also don't like the implications of people getting pleasure from torturing others.

It's probably incurably optimistic to think that a long life behind bars will fill him with remorse. More likely it will fill him with more lies and anger and stupidity, but it's the best one can do.

Yes, unfortunately that appears to be the best we can do. Perhaps in the future we might be able to catch these people before they go off the rails, maybe even cure or prevent their mental illnesses (to everyone's benefit). Unfortunately at present it seems nobody is willing to do anything about the problem - except wait until after they have committed atrocities and then lock them up.

This thing is pure depravity, and I won't shed a tear if it gets the attention of Bubba for the rest of its existence.

Attitudes like this are the reason that nothing positive will ever be done to prevent these tragedies. Ariel Castro is just one of thousands who have similar mental issues, some of whom are probably committing depraved acts right now. But we have a solution - wait until their minds disintegrate into 'pure depravity', then throw them in prison to be raped and tortured! That way we get a continuing supply of 'legitimate' targets for our own depraved thoughts.

 

[Bob001]

....I wonder how much of his ramblings he really believes, and how much he's forced himself to believe to avoid looking at himself for what he really is.
.....

Apparently it is common, if not universal, for these predators to find ways to justify themselves. Ariel Castro was indignant at people calling him a monster. At his sentencing he said "I am not a violent person. I simply kept them there without being able to leave." Nobody wants to believe he is evil, or is doing evil. Even at Nuremberg the Nazis made excuses.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/most-...tros-blame-victim-all-too-familiar-6C10821794

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Attitudes like this are the reason that nothing positive will ever be done to prevent these tragedies. Ariel Castro is just one of thousands who have similar mental issues, some of whom are probably committing depraved acts right now. But we have a solution - wait until their minds disintegrate into 'pure depravity', then throw them in prison to be raped and tortured! That way we get a continuing supply of 'legitimate' targets for our own depraved thoughts.

And that excuses horrific crimes? That society is somehow responsible for the depravities that it inflicted on three people? By your logic, Andrei Chikatilo, Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy were merely failed by society's depravity and were victims rather than perpetrators.

I guess it was all Konrad's fault that Captain Walker massacred the people of Dubai then?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I wonder how much of his ramblings he really believes, and how much he's forced himself to believe to avoid looking at himself for what he really is.

The human mind is a strange thing.

"It takes a strong man to deny what's right in front of him" John Konrad, Spec Ops: The Line.

 

[Bob001]

....
Attitudes like this are the reason that nothing positive will ever be done to prevent these tragedies. Ariel Castro is just one of thousands who have similar mental issues, some of whom are probably committing depraved acts right now. ...

So what's your proposal? You think everybody should be in therapy? Or you think everybody who can't pass a screening test should be locked up? Or what? The vast majority of people with "issues" like Castro's do not commit monstrous crimes, and the vast majority of people who commit monstrous crimes are not diagnosable as insane. Castro knew what he was doing was wrong; that's why he went to such great lengths to conceal it. Fear of punishment is an effective deterrent to misbehavior. Maybe if his first wife had called the cops the first time he abused her, three young girls wouldn't have had their lives ruined. Seeing him go to prison forever might deter someone else who is contemplating similar behavior. And if he suffers, that's part of the package he paid for. Or do you think "Gee, I'm sick" should be a magic get-out-of-jail-free card?

 

[desertgal]

What he 'reaped' was life in prison, but that's not good enough for you. You want him to be tortured as well - even though you admit that his actions were caused by mental illness.

That's an interesting argument against the Death Penalty. Does the thought of him being tortured in prison for years make you feel better? Well some of us don't want people to be tortured for any reason, particularly if they are mentally ill. Some of us also don't like the implications of people getting pleasure from torturing others.

You misunderstood me, but that's my fault, because I stated it fuzzily.

Let him slowly and torturously rot in solitary confinement.

I didn't mean he should be physically tortured, only that the slow passage of time in solitary might be torturous for him. And, no, I don't wish that for anyone, but neither am I going to shed tears over Castro's predicament.

I did not, and never have, said that I relish or take pleasure in the idea of anyone being physically tortured. Please don't attribute that to me.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Wow some of the posts in this thread are disturbing.

The fact that there are people who respond to them as you do, however, is a kind of comfort. A reassurance in humanity, if you will.

Are you one of those "it's not the crims fault, its societies fault" type people? Get real. He deserves the same amount of pity he showed the victims and their families. You are sounding like a criminal enabler.

Yes its a shame no one knew to intervene earlier, but not because he needed help, but because the abducted women chained up in his damn house did.
He gets no pity or sympathy from me and frankly it surprises me he is getting it from anyone.

I agree with both of you, and this reminds me of a discussion we had in this thread... of course he acted out of his own "free will", if there is such a thing, but there are deeper and far more complicated reasons people turn out the way they do other than "oh, he chose to do it", and understanding these, and applying that knowledge, will reduce the rate at which they happen in the future.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I agree with both of you, and this reminds me of a discussion we had in this thread... of course he acted out of his own "free will", if there is such a thing, but there are deeper and far more complicated reasons people turn out the way they do other than "oh, he chose to do it", and understanding these, and applying that knowledge, will reduce the rate at which they happen in the future.

Let's see, "it's never the individual's fault. Society failed him" is the line used by people who try to make excuses for the likes of Ian Huntley, Andrei Chikatilo or John Wayne Gacy, even though they chose to commit their crimes. Ultimately, it was their choice to commit crime, and they pay the price for it. Nothing "deeper and for more complicated than that", it was their choice. No-one forced them to pull the trigger.