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Are atheists too complacent?

Aaaaah, the OP explains why I had so much difficulty finding some straw this morning: it's been used up in all those men!

Exits stage left to play Lou Reed's "New York"...
 
Scorpion said:
But have they considered what it means to really believe you are answerable to a higher power in everything you do?
Is it not easier and more comfortable to believe death brings oblivion, than to believe you are held accountable in an eternal afterlife?
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I'm going to skip the first part of the OP, with its obvious strawman- I think that's been dealt with already.
I do want to say that I was raised a Catholic, and the idea that you could do whatever you wanted throughout the week, and then go to church on a Sunday and have everything forgiven, was certainly easy and comfortable: It is also wrong, and one of the main things that first led me to question my faith.
I also don't think most Christians really do believe they are answerable to a higher power. There are long lists of quite explicit rules in the Bible, all of which (we are told) came from God, and all of which must be followed under pain of eternal damnation. The vast majority of these rules are quietly ignored by most Christians. If they genuinely believed in eternal damnation, and that they were answerable for every breach of Divine Law, they would be much more diligent about following those laws.
 
Ron Obvious said:
I don't understand the concept of believing something because I'd rather it were true. I'm an atheist because I don't believe in gods or afterlives. My druthers don't enter into it.
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Well spoken. This is exactly the crux of the matter.

I particularly do not understand people who shop around in religions looking for something they like. Evidence and truth seems to have no importance.
 
Scorpion said:
Is it not easier and more comfortable to believe death brings oblivion, than to believe you are held accountable in an eternal afterlife?
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As it has been said, this is not a question of what is easier and more comfortable. For me it is a question of evidence and probability. There is no evidence for either, but there are so many things that need to exist, like a sadistic god, heaven, hell, souls, and so on, that it is much more likely in my mind that none of this exists.
 
Robin said:
In general, atheists think that those who believe in God are mistaken.
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And of course in the more general case, everyone thinks anyone who believe in a God they personally don't believe in, or vice versa, is mistaken.

Whether they believe they're intellectually superior to everyone with different beliefs seems to be a separate issue.

(I mean, obviously everyone who believes the same stuff as me is entirely thoughtful and solemn and wise and super serious about such things; I'm talking about all those other guys, boy are they ever dumb.)
 
The Atheist said:
"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven."



Matthew 19:14



The bible - home of every excuse possible for atrocity.
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Scorpion isn't a Christian, he believes in an even more horrendous and cruel world.
 
psionl0 said:
No matter how strongly you assert it, you can't change a belief that there are no gods into certain knowledge.


That presupposes that believers and atheists alike know that there are no gods but believers choose to shun that "reality" for a delusion instead.


An atheist giving lessons on scripture isn't really comment worthy but AFAIK saying "please forgive me for this murder while I plot my next murder" is not going to cut it.
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None of the gods that any of the major regions claim exists exist, we know that for certain.
 
jrhowell said:
And he rewards you or punishes you (with coal) based on how good or bad you have been over the past year. Seems a lot like God and the afterlife.
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In Denmark we do not believe that Santa punishes in this way. That is why, until now, my family and I were at a loss to understand those years when all the Christmas presents contained coal!
 
smartcooky said:
Nonetheless, you failed to address his comment, you simply dismissed it out of hand... SOP for theists.
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I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves, and Darat says the same thing about a three year old girl being murdered by soldiers, almost every time I post. If my memory serves me correctly he started out with a nine year old girl being raped and murdered by soldiers, and then he decided to reduce the age to three because it sounded more horrible.
 
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psionl0 said:
Misguided religious belief is definitely a cause of these things but I don't think that a belief in afterlife accountability is a specific cause.
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Maybe it's time to get more pragmatic. Religions have long found excuses for the excesses and crimes of their adherents by simply declaring that they are not doing it right, and why not, since the very principles they teach usually guarantee that even the holiest among us will fall into sin.

The popes and muezzins and prophets call for us all to behave, to donate, to sacrifice, but drown us in pleading tears when they are caught being no better than the victims they've told us to stone. Perhaps rather than debate the holiness and goodness of one religion over another we should simply say it doesn't work.

Devout practitioners of religions kill and enslave not only those of others but their own. Saints are grand but rare, and their followers violate the holy books and burn their enemies with prayers in their mouths. Whatever merit religious ideas may have, it seems they rarely survive religious practice.

They've had millennia to get it right. Maybe the experiment has gone on long enough. The samples are contaminated. The signals are infested with noise. The leaders rend their robes and beg forgiveness for their inevitable downfall. Sheaves of "no true Scotsman" screeds await the surviving copyists, but perhaps it's time to admit that the enterprise itself has failed.
 
Scorpion said:
I do not propose to justify my beliefs on this thread Its for atheists to justify themselves, and Darat says the same thing about a three year old girl, almost every time I post
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Come off it - we all know this will be back to talking about you as soon as you can manage it - I'm just jumping over the usual bumf.

Do you want me to start posting other absolutely horrendous events that happen to people so you can again tell us the victims needed to learn a lesson so it's all for the best?

You believe in probably the most revolting "afterlife" that I have ever heard about. If the choice was between your disgusting, abusive world view and oblivion, I'm for oblivion any day.
 
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psionl0 said:
Misguided religious belief is definitely a cause of these things but I don't think that a belief in afterlife accountability is a specific cause.
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Religious belief is mis-guided - a form of extortion. Right now believers in Gods are murdering people with the belief that they will be rewarded by their imaginary God in the afterlife.
 
Scorpion said:
Atheists seem to assume that people who believe in God and an afterlife are mentally weak and gullible. Thereby assuming intellectual superiority over them.
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Come on, man. Really? This is what you start with? An overgeneralization based on no evidence other than anecdote?


But have they considered what it means to really believe you are answerable to a higher power in everything you do?
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Sometimes? I know some atheists who were raised very religious. I know some who weren't but studied religion. I know some who weren't and never cared to investigate much.

I was raised in a religious household, so I certainly have considered it.


Is it not easier and more comfortable to believe death brings oblivion, than to believe you are held accountable in an eternal afterlife?
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I don't know. Being very, very close to death (my cardiologist referred me to hospice), I can tell you that my existentialism brings me very little comfort. Religion, which I have recently reconsidered, brought me very little comfort.

I don't find existentialism easy or comfortable. I find that the challenges of life are exactly as challenging. I'm not sure what part of school shooter drills at my kids' schools, Covid-19, or filling out tax forms would get easier one way or the other.

I've often envied people who find peace with difficult situations through faith. That, to me, seems easier. However, maybe they just are people capable of finding peace no matter what they might believe. I've seen Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, and Shintoists ground themselves with faith. I've seen atheists who handle stress far more calmly than I. Collect some data and get back to me.
 
dejudge said:
Religious belief is mis-guided - a form of extortion. Right now believers in Gods are murdering people with the belief that they will be rewarded by their imaginary God in the afterlife.
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Statements where "all" is implied but only "some" is true are invalid.
 
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