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Archeology has never disproved a Biblical point

this is a silly thread

So far, archaeology has disproven the Noah's Ark story. People have found petrified wood here and there on hills and such, and apparently some with animal fossils.
Archaeology can prove that the entire world was NOT covered with water, and if they do find a boat with animal remains, archaeology will prove that they didn't have every single type of animal on earth.
People in the Bible had no idea about buffalo, kangaroos, and penguins.
 
Rohl apparently has ties to people who today still support the theories of Immanuel Velikovsky. To some degree he was trying to support the biblical view, claiming to have found the tomb of the "historic" Joseph, etc. He has tried to make various local rulers of Canaan referred to in the Amarna letters correspond to Saul, David and Joab, among others. The Amarna letters are archival cunieform tablets written in Akkadian, the international language of the Near East in the late Bronze Age. They were letters to Pharaoh Akhenaten, mainly from his Canaanite vassel kings.

It's somewhat amusing that Rohl tries to use the Amarna letters to support his thesis, because a mainstay of his theory is that the conventional chronology is way off, since the Egyptian and Assyrian king lists cannot be matched up except at one point: We know that the last pharaoh of the 26th. or Cushite dynasty, Taharka, was the contemporary of Asshurbanipul, the last great Assyrian king. Thus, Rohl feels he can slide the lists around by claiming that two minor Egyptian dynasties originally considered sequential were, in fact, contemporary. Using this wedge, he claims that the Pharaoh whom the Bible calls "Shishak," who attacked Judah and Israel after the death of Solomon, was not Soshenq I, first king of the Libyan or 22nd. dynasty, as commonly thought, but was instead Ramesses II of the 19th. dynasty.

However, among the Amarna letters are some written to Akhenaten from an Assyrian king named Asshur-uballit. While some names repeat quite often in the Assyrian king lists (there were three Tiglath-pilesers and five Shalmanesers), there are only two Assyrian kings named Asshur-uballit. Since the second of these was the younger brother of Asshurbanipul and only briefly ruled the city of Harran after Nineveh had fallen to the Medes and Chaldeans, he can't possibly be the contemorary of Akhenaten. Therefore the Asshur-uballit who was that pharaoh's contemporary was Asshur-uballit I, and the two king lists are actually stapled together at least at two points. Since Asshur-uballit I was a contemporary of Akhenaten, the Assyrian king named Adad-nirari, who wrote to Ramesses II has to be Adad-nirari I. Thus, contrary to Rohl's thesis, The Assyrian and Egyptian king lists can be matched together at three points, three sets of contemporaries: Akhenaten and Asshur-uballit I, Ramesses II and Adad-nirari I, Taharka and Asshurbanipul.

Thus, we cannot slide the pharonic king list around to play with the chronology; and the evidence of the Amarna letters supports the conventional chronology and discrdits Rohl's attempt at radical redating.

Thats interesting because of the "gospel according to egypt" site which basically claims the major stories of the bible are just retellings of egyptian kings. They use rohl's chronology as the basis for their claims, or at least they use it to support it. I came across it awhile ago while I was investigating the whole ahkenaten/moses theory. It is a theory that is certainly not proven and only vaguely supported by abstract "evidence" but it is fascinating to contemplate. I believe it was Freud who first tried to push it. It has been near 10 years since I was engrossed in it though and I am certainly not up to date. Thanks for the response.
 
There are lots of archaeologically demonstrable fallacies in the bible. My personal favorite is that Bethlehem, where Jesus was supposedly born, wasn't founded until 200 CE.
An Article to that Effect

There is also no evidence for a global flood. None. However there is a lot of evidence for heathen civilizations that lived right through when the flood was supposed to have happened. (Just because it's an easy target doesn't mean you shouldn't take the shot...)

Finally, regarding the exodus, the entire story is so bogus it isn't even funny. Robert Sheaffer wrote an article for the Skeptical Inquirer about the type of response that has occurred in this thread called "The Fallacy of Misplaced Rationalism" that is fantastic. (SI, July/August 2008) Basically, this story is clearly understood to be allegorical by anyone with an ounce of skepticism. Applying scientific ideas to see whether it would have been possible if fantastically unlikely sets of conditions had been met isn't helpful, it only lends credibility to those making this stuff up in the first place.

Finally, something that has bothered me since the first time I heard it, the mistranslation of Reed Sea into Red Sea is confusing at best. It seems fishy to me that after 3000 years or so of this text existing, someone FINALLY figured out that the English just dropped an e. But wait, the Latin Vulgate is the same translation (mare Rubrum.) How is that supposed to work (palus --> Rubrum????) I have read dozens of papers on the phrase 'yam suph' and the idea that the word suph means reed. The problem is that that word is used fairly commonly throughout the bible. It seems unlikely that the translators got it right 21 times, but the 22nd, they messed up. (I understand that there are likely many ways to say reed, but surely one of them would have been the same word, suph.) I strongly suspect that this whole mistranslation is a way of making this absurd story more plausible. It could be a massive coincidence in English as well, I suppose, but if you note that there IS another occurrence of "yam suph" outside of Exodus, and that that use is tied geographically to the Red Sea, AND that the modern Hebrew for the Red Sea is apparently yam suph also, well, that sorta puts a damper on the mistranslation idea.

If anyone has conflicting evidence for this, please let me know. The vast majority of what I've been able to find about this is the same stuff copied over and over again by English speaking Christians without any source data at all...
 
I strongly suspect that this whole mistranslation is a way of making this absurd story more plausible. It could be a massive coincidence in English as well, I suppose, but if you note that there IS another occurrence of "yam suph" outside of Exodus, and that that use is tied geographically to the Red Sea, AND that the modern Hebrew for the Red Sea is apparently yam suph also, well, that sorta puts a damper on the mistranslation idea.

That ignores the long oral tradition the story must have had before being written down. There also appears to be evidence of open bodies of water that no longer exists.

It is not that big a leap from a small band of disaffected people lead by Moses making their escape through marshlands to the story being handed down today
 
That ignores the long oral tradition the story must have had before being written down. There also appears to be evidence of open bodies of water that no longer exists.

It is not that big a leap from a small band of disaffected people lead by Moses making their escape through marshlands to the story being handed down today


There was a very interesting interpretation of the story of the Red/Reed Sea recently discussed in this thread. Based on textual examination, it was suggested that the parting as such never happened, but was a later interpretation of an earlier hymn.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4657547#post4657547
 
There was a very interesting interpretation of the story of the Red/Reed Sea recently discussed in this thread. Based on textual examination, it was suggested that the parting as such never happened, but was a later interpretation of an earlier hymn.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4657547#post4657547

A very intriguing idea that is just mundane enough to have legs. If we look at how songs are misunderstood today. It is hardly any stretch at all
 
That ignores the long oral tradition the story must have had before being written down. There also appears to be evidence of open bodies of water that no longer exists.

It is not that big a leap from a small band of disaffected people lead by Moses making their escape through marshlands to the story being handed down today

But why do we even bother? Archaeology has demonstrated, and genetics have shown that the Israelites and Judeans were Canaanites, genetically identical to the Phoenicians. There appears to have been some sort of internal power struggle within Canaanite society, perhaps a popular uprising against elite oppression, which partially destroys Canaanite cities in the time period from 2200 to 1200BCE. The area is continuously settled, but evolves from a few city-states through a plethora of small villages to finally a kingdom. No escape from Egypt is required, or rather, the Bible is the only source that requires it.
 
So, what's this thread about then?

Are there any pyramids in it?
You know, it does seem odd that the pyramids are never (rarely?) mentioned in the Bible. They are considered marvels today, and surely must have been even more impressive when they were only half as old as they are now.
 
So, what's this thread about then?

Are there any pyramids in it?

I asked a Rabbi about that, he told me the reason that the Israelites don't mention pyramids during their 400 year holiday in Egypt was because they were only concerned with matters of faith, not arhcitecture, when I pointed out that they had no problem describing the architecture of mesopotamia he went quiet
:D
 
Archeology -- as in "remains of cities and towns" -- usually DOES fit well with what the bible says, which is unsurprising: the authors of the bible didn't invent nations, cities, or wars out of whole cloth. The problem is that the miracle stories -- burning bush, talking snake (a good title for a porn film, come to think of it), etc. -- are, naturally, just the kind of stories that would not leave any archeological evidence, even if they were true.

So, yes, on the whole archeology did not "disprove the bible", but it doesn't prove what your friend thinks it does. You might as well say that mathematics "never disproved the bible" because it is logically possible for 600 people to turn into 600,000 in 400 years, as the Exodus story says, if geometrical progression is allowed.
 
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Archeology -- as in "remains of cities and towns" -- usually DOES fit well with what the bible says, which is unsurprising: the authors of the bible didn't invent nations, cities, or wars out of whole cloth.

Yet the archeological record does not provide a scintilla of evidence that the Jews were slaves in Egypt.

The problem is that the miracle stories -- burning bush, talking snake (a good title for a porn film, come to think of it), etc. -- are, naturally, just the kind of stories that would not leave any archeological evidence, even if they were true.

I disagree: archeology can also dismiss the claim that the world (and all life on it) is 6000 years old. Archeology can easily dismiss the claim that the world was flooded ~4300 years ago. Archeology can also dismiss the claim that the world used a single language until ~4200 years ago.

Over 30% of the U.S. population believe that the Bible is the inspired and infallible word of God and it is meant to be taken literally. Archeology proves that these people are wrong.
 
It is my understanding that the walls of Jericho did not come down in a catastrophic event. The archaeological evidence is that the city slowly failed.

To use real events as a backdrop is called historical fiction. The archaeological information supports the history and not the bible. Historical information about Sherman's march does not support Gone With the Wind as a true account.
 

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